Utah legalizes lane Filtering

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by 02SE
You wouldn't happen to be Lee Schismenos would you?

Arizona driver assaults Motorcyclist and small woman passenger


That's all you've got? No good response to the points I raised so you want to paint me as violent? Weak.

Enjoy your lane splitting and filtering. Sincerely hope you don't get hurt doing it.


You didn't raise any valid points. People will either obey the law, or they won't. No different than any other law.

Your annoyance at the possibility of Motorcyclists legally lane filtering, lane splitting, or lane sharing, makes you sound a lot like Schismenos. I just wondered if it was you.


Yeah, got nothing. The riders that have responded in this thread not afraid to view splitting and filtering rationally confirm my points are not wrong. The selling points about helping congestion are just selling points with little real world effect and the real benefit is to the riders not the vehicle drivers. Other riders mentioned how much time it saves them on a commute or trip, again no concern if there's any benefit to everyone else on the road. Admit that it's a unilateral win for motorcycles.

NHTSA says this: Motorcycles made up 3 percent of all registered vehicles in the United States in 2013 and accounted for only 0.7 percent of all vehicle miles traveled. Being generous with this stat say there are 3 bikes for every 97 other cars & trucks in traffic. You really think those 3 bikes going to the front make any difference to the car sitting at #98? No, but it sure makes a difference to the rider that was #100 in traffic now sitting at the front. Just admit it's a nice win for you and pretty meaningless to the other 99.3% of the driving public.

The point about being last in line in stopped traffic is valid, it makes anyone nervous until a few other cars are behind you. If I pulled up to the back of a line and a bike came up and pulled along side my truck and stopped I'd know exactly what he was doing and it wouldn't bother me a bit. Would probably give him a gap to pull into when the line started moving. No real need to ride to the front to be safe.

Motorcyclist's concerns about it being more dangerous on the roads today are very valid. It seems like introducing a new motorcycle behavior into traffic that the public has never seen could be more dangerous to riders not less. Then after you get your resident drivers used to the new behavior you have a never ending stream of drivers from other states who have never seen filtering or (you hope) splitting. This happened to us the first time we drove to Ca to visit our daughter, never saw splitting before and it was startling and unnerving. Heaven help the poor driver who's trying to change lanes in slow or stopped traffic and blocks the filtering lane. We saw this happen just ahead and the rider who had to stop wasn't nice.

Your inability to rationally defend filtering as universally beneficial and your continued insinuations about my character speak volumes.

 

[02SE]

YOUR inability to acknowledge the benefit not just to riders, but to those in cars, and continued implication that I "got nothing", shows you are closed-minded. Since you have implied that even the idea makes you angry, you clearly have a mentality that is at least similar to Schismenos. Since you're both from AZ, I wondered if it was in fact you.

Let me ask you this: Since you can't comprehend how riders that are no longer parked in traffic will reduce the length of traffic back-ups, can you at least acknowledge that if they aren't on bikes, and are instead in cars, they most definitely WOULD add to the congestion?

I love statistics. Any figures can be found or the metrics 'adjusted' to support ones argument. What's the saying: There are lies, [censored] lies, and statistics.

What that "3%" of all registered vehicles fails to address, is that the "3%" is not evenly distributed around the country, and certainly Motorcycle usage is not evenly distributed. In some areas, Motorcycle usage is much higher than in other locales. Hence why California recently clarified the issue of lane sharing, and finally made it legal after years of being a gray area.

I find it encouraging that leaders of another State have realized the benefit of more people riding, and are enacting a law that will make it safer for them, and will reduce traffic congestion for all. Not to mention that bikes generally get better fuel economy, so there is less 'demand' on the 'supply' which helps keep gas prices lower. And since bikes weigh much less, they are easier on the roadways, thus prolonging the life of roads before they have to be repaired.

 

[AZjeff]

Maybe we should agree that we don't agree about this and end it.

I will respond to your question about motorcycles parked in traffic. Of course if a bike is gone the line behind where it was moves up what, 1/2 a car length? So if 6 bikes pull out of line the people behind the last bike move up 3 car lengths. So far so good. Question is, where do the bikes go? Do they make a single file line 6 deep at the light or stop sign or whatever? Then what? Filtering by definition is for moving up through stopped traffic. The light turns green and now you've got 6 bikes between lines of cars accelerating away from the light. This is a serious honest question about a situation that's going to happen to some degree all over Utah. Do cars now have to sit until the bikes all clear the front or what? Again, honest question.

I'll ask you a question. Do you really think that 6 months after filtering becomes legal people are going to be saying to coworkers their commute is 5 minutes shorter now? I think maybe some will if they commute on motorcycles.

 

[Shannow]

grasping tenuous facts to justify a practice that suits you personally is typical of the modern day.

Part of surviving as a motorcyclist is to be predictable to the fast processing system that's been part of our brain make-up for a million years (if you believe in those time frames, many here don't)... they guy that I saw killed splitting lanes at congestion heading into a tunnel probably felt entirely self entitled...the poor schmuck who was legitimately changing lanes, had indicated his intent, and while travelling at not much more than walking pace was rear ended by a cyclist doing 40MPH was definitely not at fault in any way...but has to live with that.

Motorcyclist, per this thread saved a half a car space if that in the congestion, then locked the whole show up for hours.

But at least he got where he was going a lot quicker than waiting for old age.

 

[EdwardC]

I agree that any new regulation like this is probably going to cause some additional incidents, at least until the local drivers get accustomed to the changes (both cars and motorcycles).

While 3% may not see like much, I would argue that the effect isn't linear, more likely something exponential. Here in Chicago, with our terrible commuting traffic, we have federal holidays where a small percentage of people aren't going to work, but those days, traffic is MUCH faster moving, much more than the few percent would indicate. And like others have mentioned, if 3% is a nationwide average, localized averages for population dense locations may have much better gains.

I did a quick search for Taipei, Taiwan (since I've been there). The report from 2016, they said that there are 1,000,000 motorcycles and 800,000 cars and trucks. I think it's safe to say if 1,000,000 of those motorcyclists turned into 4-wheeled cars, the traffic would be quite a bit worse. In the article, you can see the picture where there's the designated motorcycle filtering area in the front of the light. http://thedailyviz.com/2016/07/30/charting-taiwans-sea-of-scooters/

 

[AZjeff]

in 2016 3% of all US vehicles registered are motorcycles and they account for 0.7% of miles driven, it's just a statistic I found trying to understand the "benefit to all commuters" side of filtering and splitting. We've noticed the density/speed phenomenon on I-17 here in Az. On weekends it fills up with people escaping Phoenix and at some cars/mile density speed slows and the slinky effect shows up. Not sure that has anything to do with the topic. The Taipei numbers are interesting but there aren't any US cities within light years of those proportions.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by Shannow
grasping tenuous facts to justify a practice that suits you personally is typical of the modern day.

Part of surviving as a motorcyclist is to be predictable to the fast processing system that's been part of our brain make-up for a million years (if you believe in those time frames, many here don't)... they guy that I saw killed splitting lanes at congestion heading into a tunnel probably felt entirely self entitled...the poor schmuck who was legitimately changing lanes, had indicated his intent, and while travelling at not much more than walking pace was rear ended by a cyclist doing 40MPH was definitely not at fault in any way...but has to live with that.

Motorcyclist, per this thread saved a half a car space if that in the congestion, then locked the whole show up for hours.

But at least he got where he was going a lot quicker than waiting for old age.


The same could be said for just about anything...

In your example, the Motorcyclist made a poor choice to lane split at such a high speed differential, and paid the ultimate price for that decision. With the new law being discussed in this topic, that speed differential would have made their lane splitting, lane filtering, lane sharing, illegal

I can also tell you about the Motorcyclist I witnessed being flattened by a distracted driver, in stop-and-go traffic. Other witnesses said the woman that hit and killed the Motorcyclist was texting at the time. I'm sure it was a very important text like what their BFF was wearing that day...

I've very nearly been flattened myself. I was stopped at a light behind a line of cars, and as I always do I lined up to the side of the lane, kept the bike in gear, and was watching my mirrors. When here comes an oblivious driver up behind me. When it was clear the car coming from behind was not going to stop, I rode up between the stopped lanes of cars, and avoided being flattened. Now my life-saving lane-splitting was illegal in that State at the time. But the Cops that came to the accident scene declined to write me up for having situational awareness, and saving myself through my illegal act.

Now Motorcyclists in the State of Utah will also have that legal option. The fact that they are one less car in the queue, multiplied by all the other Motorcyclists not in cars, will benefit everyone.

 

[Shannow]

No-one would book you for escaping the line of fire, whether you illegally entered the breakdown lane, or dropped your bike and ran...

 

[ozdrrider]

Agree.

The safest place for a rider is away from the "mind bubble" tanks on the road. Keeping away from cars = life.

As the old adage goes: Motorcyclists don't get old by accident....

Filtering/splitting is legal here up 25 kph.

 

[AZjeff]

It looks like we're going to Utah later this summer after this goes into effect so I looked up the specifics to be an informed motorist. It's limited to roads with speed limit of 45 or less and 2 lanes in the same direction so the bikes can come up between the lanes of stopped traffic. Can someone tell me what happens when the light turns green and there are bikes stacked between lines of cars and everyone starts moving forward? There was no indication cars are required to wait for filtered bikes to clear so everyone accelerates away from the light and it all sorts out? I don't want to screw things up. thanks

By the law this wouldn't apply to a 4 lane highway experiencing stop and go or stopped traffic due to construction or an accident it would seem.

 

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by AZjeff
in 2016 3% of all US vehicles registered are motorcycles and they account for 0.7% of miles driven, it's just a statistic I found trying to understand the "benefit to all commuters" side of filtering and splitting. We've noticed the density/speed phenomenon on I-17 here in Az. On weekends it fills up with people escaping Phoenix and at some cars/mile density speed slows and the slinky effect shows up. Not sure that has anything to do with the topic. The Taipei numbers are interesting but there aren't any US cities within light years of those proportions.


If I lived in a congested area with traffic jams, I would NEVER ride my motorcycle to work, as it is a pain to sit in traffic, especially when hot. If I lived in a congested area and allowed to lane split/filter, I would ride most likely every day of the week. I would guess the numbers on numbers of riders and miles ridden are higher in California, and I imagine this is one reason why. I bet Utah will see an increase in densely populated areas as well because of this.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by DriveHard

If I lived in a congested area with traffic jams, I would NEVER ride my motorcycle to work, as it is a pain to sit in traffic, especially when hot. If I lived in a congested area and allowed to lane split/filter, I would ride most likely every day of the week. I would guess the numbers on numbers of riders and miles ridden are higher in California, and I imagine this is one reason why. I bet Utah will see an increase in densely populated areas as well because of this.

To an extent, I believe this to be true, you might see more weekend only riders using their bikes as regular transportation during the week seeing the advantage filtering gives, problem is, many of those are very large bikes, so not as easy to filter with as other, smaller bikes (regardless of skill, they are just physically wider bikes).
Thing is, what is the riding season in Utah? While I am sure their are some diehard riders out there, they have long, cold, snowy winters there. Cali has year round riding in most of the state, so a more consistent result.

 

[blueglide88]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Up to now, California was the only State that allowed Lane Splitting. Now another State has seen the light, and will allow Motorcycles to filter through stopped cars to the head of the line. This is safer for riders than sitting waiting to get flattened from behind by a distracted driver, and reduces the length of traffic back-ups, which is a benefit to those in cars. Hopefully all States will eventually enact this type of common sense legislation.

Lane filtering and splitting is common around the World, where Motorcycles are seen as legitimate forms of transportation, and not just play toys as they often are in the USA.

Utah legalizes Lane Filtering


If you believe it's safer, then do it. I never lane split, around Chicago it's asking to get killed. And for "Waiting to get flattened".........if you are aware on a bike, you'll do what it takes to get
out of the way, and splitting lanes in that instance is just common sense. But to do it just to advance in traffic, opt me out. It's one of the reasons I';m still
alive after riding since the late 70's......I use common sense

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by blueglide88
Originally Posted by 02SE
Up to now, California was the only State that allowed Lane Splitting. Now another State has seen the light, and will allow Motorcycles to filter through stopped cars to the head of the line. This is safer for riders than sitting waiting to get flattened from behind by a distracted driver, and reduces the length of traffic back-ups, which is a benefit to those in cars. Hopefully all States will eventually enact this type of common sense legislation.

Lane filtering and splitting is common around the World, where Motorcycles are seen as legitimate forms of transportation, and not just play toys as they often are in the USA.

Utah legalizes Lane Filtering


If you believe it's safer, then do it. I never lane split, around Chicago it's asking to get killed. And for "Waiting to get flattened".........if you are aware on a bike, you'll do what it takes to get
out of the way, and splitting lanes in that instance is just common sense. But to do it just to advance in traffic, opt me out. It's one of the reasons I';m still
alive after riding since the late 70's......I use common sense

I'm not sure why you're preaching awareness and common sense to me, when I gave an example of doing so, and have been doing so since I also started riding in the 70's.

 

[alarmguy]

I wish they would do that here in SC. Normally we are the land of the free, dont know why we cant lane split yet. )

 

[kawie_guy]

In Utah, we have so many terrible drivers that you'd have to be suicidal to even attempt to lane split.
I see this law being repealed next legislative session (it actually only snuck through our legislative branch because they passed over 550 new laws this year). If it isn't, I wish all the street bikers good luck. I'll stick to dirt bikes on trails in the mountains. At least up there, if I crash, it's my fault. In town, the Adderall-buzzed BYU students are so busy texting while driving that they can't even see you when you're directly behind them or in front of them, much less coming up on them in their blind spot in between lanes!

 

[Andersonpg]

Here in Brazil, lane split is legal.

My video go to work:

 

[Andersonpg]

Originally Posted by kawie_guy
In Utah, we have so many terrible drivers that you'd have to be suicidal to even attempt to lane split.
I see this law being repealed next legislative session (it actually only snuck through our legislative branch because they passed over 550 new laws this year). If it isn't, I wish all the street bikers good luck. I'll stick to dirt bikes on trails in the mountains. At least up there, if I crash, it's my fault. In town, the Adderall-buzzed BYU students are so busy texting while driving that they can't even see you when you're directly behind them or in front of them, much less coming up on them in their blind spot in between lanes!


cultural problem, here in Brazil the other bikes are more dangerous than cars.
cars are already used to leaving room for motorcycles