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Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5068997 04/09/19 06:04 AM
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nicholas Offline
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We just had our 2010 Sante Fe V6 CVVT cam gear replaced - - at 140,000kms - to the tune of $2500 Canadian.
Not fun.......the seals went on it - - which is a pain because I changed the oil every 6,000kms or 6 months.

Tech said the chains and tensioner were still good.


2019 2.0T Santa Fe
2010 3.5 Santa Fe
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: Ifixyawata] #5069004 04/09/19 06:13 AM
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Trav Offline
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Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Originally Posted by Trav
(some new ones do run in oil)



Belts in oil? Sounds like it would normally be a recipe for disaster. shrug


Not really, there are compounds totally unaffected by oil that they can use along with reinforcement materials that could possibly make the belt a lifetime part.
Timing belts and chains don't stretch they wear at the teeth (belts) or connecting links/rollers (chains) giving them the appearance of stretching, running the belt in oil will prevent a lot of the wear.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: joegreen] #5069009 04/09/19 06:26 AM
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DriveHard Offline
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Originally Posted by joegreen
I feel like people like chains because they can usually go a long way before being replaced. I actually really like belts. They are quiet, you don't have to worry about the timing gears also wearing out, the timing always stays perfect because they don't wear like chains. You don't have the timing chain contributing to oil shear. The only downside is belts are a maintenance item you now have to account for


With today's variable intake and exhaust cam timing, the wear of the chain matters less and less...the timing mechanism will always make sure the cam is in the "right" phase until it is totally out of adjustment, at which point you are probably in trouble anyways.


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069016 04/09/19 06:39 AM
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StevieC Offline
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My Santa Fe had a belt and I changed it 4 times. It was fairly easy to do. I don't mind them. Chains if designed properly are much better for me because of the miles I drive and the fact they will usually last the life of the engine.


'18 Caravan - 45k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069023 04/09/19 06:45 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Big trouble all over the place with VVT and chain tensioners. And I have been sounding the alarm bell here since engines started going to chains and VVT en masse.

Never had T-belt problems.


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#8 60864mi-Subaru Idemitsu 0W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069024 04/09/19 06:46 AM
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vwmaniaman Offline
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I prefer neither belt or chain. I like the old fashioned gear on gear drive bathed in oil. They never fail for the life of the motor. My old VW's are my example.


Don't waste your time on a slipshod repair.
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5069028 04/09/19 06:52 AM
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StevieC Offline
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Big trouble all over the place with VVT and chain tensioners. And I have been sounding the alarm bell here since engines started going to chains and VVT en masse.

Never had T-belt problems.

My dad's PentaStar which has VVT on both the intake and exhaust cams and it's a 4 cam setup. It has over 300K on it now with the original timing chain and was run on conventional oil its whole life. If properly designed there is 0 issues.

Last edited by StevieC; 04/09/19 06:53 AM.

'18 Caravan - 45k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069029 04/09/19 06:55 AM
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WhizkidTN Offline
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I will only buy a car with timing chains.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (86K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (97K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607/XG7317
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069053 04/09/19 07:17 AM
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Dave Sherman Offline
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I prefer chains when they are reliable. Last vehicle was a 2010 Traverse with problematic timing chains. Made it to 170,000 before the dreaded cam position error codes showed up, but it was beyond economical repair and it was not going to pass e-check with the CEL glaring. Not too crazy about the timing belt on the Pilot, but it seems they are generally reliable when changed on schedule.


2015 Honda Pilot EX AWD Valvoline 0W-20 Bosch filter
1977 MG Midget Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 Bosch Filter
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: vwmaniaman] #5069068 04/09/19 07:33 AM
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Trav Offline
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Originally Posted by vwmaniaman
I prefer neither belt or chain. I like the old fashioned gear on gear drive bathed in oil. They never fail for the life of the motor. My old VW's are my example.


That is the best but a bit tricky with modern higher output DOHC V engines, it has been done though. Duesenberg DOHC with gears, it looks like the top 3 could be eliminated on a modern engine but the physical size of the block may pose issues.

Edit: The sound from that drive must be amazing.

duesenberg-w-24-gears.jpg
Last edited by Trav; 04/09/19 07:35 AM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: Donald] #5069098 04/09/19 07:59 AM
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WyrTwister Offline OP
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The timing system on my 289 has a cam gear / sprocket with plastic / nylon teeth . As a typical teenager of the time ., I had flogged it many times . The system was so worn I removed the chain before I removed the gears / sprockets . Had to go down to the parts house and purchase a puller to remove the sprocket / gear from the cam .

So much slack on the slack side of the chain , it had been rubbing on the front cover .

Buick 3.8l Timing chain , cam sprocket , tensioner $ 210.37 + freight RockAuto.com

Sonic 1.8l Timing belt , tensioner , idler $ 127.79 + freight RockAuto.com ( not including water pump which is not under the plastic covers and can be services independently

The whole timing belt system can be accessed with out going " inside " the engine .

The kit for the 66 model 289 , 2 barrel engine is $ 20.54 + freight from RockAuto.com . Reverse progress ?

Wyr
God bless


[/quote]

I had a 289 in a 1965 Mustang and it had a timing chain and the chain had a very simple path, from the crankshaft up to the
cam shaft. The engine had push rods. I rebuilt the 289 in my Mustang at age 17 and learned a lot about engines.

Today's engines with a timing chain have a much more complex path for the chain with over head cams, idlers. [/quote]


Wyr
God bless
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: aquariuscsm] #5069113 04/09/19 08:10 AM
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MarkM66 Offline
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Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I always thought chains were a lifetime part and belts were a maintenance item. I never once heard of timing chain failure until Ford's 5.0.


Google GM 3.6 . Cadillac, Traverse, Acadia, etc. Late 2000's especially.

Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: Ifixyawata] #5069121 04/09/19 08:17 AM
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DerbyDave Offline
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Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Originally Posted by Trav
(some new ones do run in oil)



Belts in oil? Sounds like it would normally be a recipe for disaster. shrug



I know it's not a car engine but my mower has a Honda GCV160 small engine with a timing belt that runs in oil. Considering there are probably millions of those engines out there you would think if there was a problem it would be pretty well known by now.


2005 Buick Terraza
2007 Honda Ridgeline
1986 Suzuki Cavalcade
1986 Suzuki Intruder
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: oldhp] #5069143 04/09/19 08:38 AM
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talest Offline
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Originally Posted by oldhp
Originally Posted by benjamming
Interference or non-interference is what you really need to know.


^^^^^This^^^^^^


In a non-interference engine, the belt can snap or come slightly loose to make a tooth or two jump and you will be okay.

Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069151 04/09/19 08:48 AM
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slacktide_bitog Offline
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Easy, chains. They don't need to be replaced smile

Timing chain noise is not a problem. Any noise the chain makes is drowned out by the fuel injectors anyway crzy

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