Recent Topics
ECOGARD X4612 NEW FILTER CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude. 07/20/19 06:48 PM
Show me your dinner
by 53' Stude. 07/20/19 05:52 PM
Shelf life of Gumout fuel injector cleaner
by pentode. 07/20/19 05:24 PM
Started a big job on the Carrera
by rooflessVW. 07/20/19 05:17 PM
Taco Bell Cantina
by vavavroom. 07/20/19 05:13 PM
TEC SELECT T 4612 CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude. 07/20/19 05:01 PM
2012 Ford 3.0 V6 Kendall GT-1 5W-20 6488 mi
by AITG. 07/20/19 04:37 PM
Replaced All Signaling Bulbs At One Time
by RayCJ. 07/20/19 04:21 PM
Cheryl's New She Shed
by MolaKule. 07/20/19 04:16 PM
Thread sealant for bolts holding diff cover.
by Snagglefoot. 07/20/19 03:30 PM
Meguiars Hybrid Ceramic
by rdevans89. 07/20/19 03:02 PM
2015 Mitsubishi Outlander GT trans. filter
by Kira. 07/20/19 03:02 PM
Could microglass/synthetic media filters harm engines?
by Deontologist. 07/20/19 01:47 PM
A/C problems 2016 Nissan Quest.
by JTK. 07/20/19 01:37 PM
change once a year regimen
by alex_at. 07/20/19 01:34 PM
What would you like to do in the future?
by Red91. 07/20/19 12:45 PM
Pulling timing for high IAT
by LAGA. 07/20/19 11:55 AM
I think I messed up. How badly?
by JohnG. 07/20/19 11:19 AM
Newest Members
Roadtripp, Denali376, GoldDot40, Dtn2, Bonebender
68717 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
96 registered members (Ammofirst, 53' Stude, AdditiveOCD, AlienBug, 01rangerxl, 10 invisible), 2,071 guests, and 29 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics292,159
Posts5,017,829
Members68,717
Most Online2,967
Mar 10th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Hop To
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 6
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5068997
04/09/19 07:04 AM
04/09/19 07:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 830
ottawa
nicholas Offline
nicholas  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 830
ottawa
We just had our 2010 Sante Fe V6 CVVT cam gear replaced - - at 140,000kms - to the tune of $2500 Canadian.
Not fun.......the seals went on it - - which is a pain because I changed the oil every 6,000kms or 6 months.

Tech said the chains and tensioner were still good.


2019 2.0T Santa Fe
2010 3.5 Santa Fe
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: Ifixyawata] #5069004
04/09/19 07:13 AM
04/09/19 07:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,033
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,033
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Originally Posted by Trav
(some new ones do run in oil)



Belts in oil? Sounds like it would normally be a recipe for disaster. shrug


Not really, there are compounds totally unaffected by oil that they can use along with reinforcement materials that could possibly make the belt a lifetime part.
Timing belts and chains don't stretch they wear at the teeth (belts) or connecting links/rollers (chains) giving them the appearance of stretching, running the belt in oil will prevent a lot of the wear.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: joegreen] #5069009
04/09/19 07:26 AM
04/09/19 07:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline
DriveHard  Offline

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,417
Middle of Iowa
Originally Posted by joegreen
I feel like people like chains because they can usually go a long way before being replaced. I actually really like belts. They are quiet, you don't have to worry about the timing gears also wearing out, the timing always stays perfect because they don't wear like chains. You don't have the timing chain contributing to oil shear. The only downside is belts are a maintenance item you now have to account for


With today's variable intake and exhaust cam timing, the wear of the chain matters less and less...the timing mechanism will always make sure the cam is in the "right" phase until it is totally out of adjustment, at which point you are probably in trouble anyways.


Smile, it increases your face value
2013 Fiat 500 Abarth mod heavy (my DD)
2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio TI Sport (wife's)
2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
2007 Nissan Xterra (trail toy)
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069016
04/09/19 07:39 AM
04/09/19 07:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,017
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,017
ON, Canada eh?
My Santa Fe had a belt and I changed it 4 times. It was fairly easy to do. I don't mind them. Chains if designed properly are much better for me because of the miles I drive and the fact they will usually last the life of the engine.


'18 Caravan - 40k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069023
04/09/19 07:45 AM
04/09/19 07:45 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,092
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,092
N.H, U.S.A.
Big trouble all over the place with VVT and chain tensioners. And I have been sounding the alarm bell here since engines started going to chains and VVT en masse.

Never had T-belt problems.


2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#0 5033mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069024
04/09/19 07:46 AM
04/09/19 07:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 237
Kevil,Ky
vwmaniaman Offline
vwmaniaman  Offline

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 237
Kevil,Ky
I prefer neither belt or chain. I like the old fashioned gear on gear drive bathed in oil. They never fail for the life of the motor. My old VW's are my example.


Don't waste your time on a slipshod repair.
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5069028
04/09/19 07:52 AM
04/09/19 07:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,017
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,017
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Big trouble all over the place with VVT and chain tensioners. And I have been sounding the alarm bell here since engines started going to chains and VVT en masse.

Never had T-belt problems.

My dad's PentaStar which has VVT on both the intake and exhaust cams and it's a 4 cam setup. It has over 300K on it now with the original timing chain and was run on conventional oil its whole life. If properly designed there is 0 issues.

Last edited by StevieC; 04/09/19 07:53 AM.

'18 Caravan - 40k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069029
04/09/19 07:55 AM
04/09/19 07:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 692
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 692
E. Tennessee
I will only buy a car with timing chains.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (82K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (87K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069053
04/09/19 08:17 AM
04/09/19 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,242
Ohio
Dave Sherman Offline
Dave Sherman  Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,242
Ohio
I prefer chains when they are reliable. Last vehicle was a 2010 Traverse with problematic timing chains. Made it to 170,000 before the dreaded cam position error codes showed up, but it was beyond economical repair and it was not going to pass e-check with the CEL glaring. Not too crazy about the timing belt on the Pilot, but it seems they are generally reliable when changed on schedule.


2015 Honda Pilot EX AWD Valvoline 0W-20 Bosch filter
1977 MG Midget Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 Bosch Filter
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: vwmaniaman] #5069068
04/09/19 08:33 AM
04/09/19 08:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,033
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,033
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by vwmaniaman
I prefer neither belt or chain. I like the old fashioned gear on gear drive bathed in oil. They never fail for the life of the motor. My old VW's are my example.


That is the best but a bit tricky with modern higher output DOHC V engines, it has been done though. Duesenberg DOHC with gears, it looks like the top 3 could be eliminated on a modern engine but the physical size of the block may pose issues.

Edit: The sound from that drive must be amazing.

duesenberg-w-24-gears.jpg
Last edited by Trav; 04/09/19 08:35 AM.

ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: Donald] #5069098
04/09/19 08:59 AM
04/09/19 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,006
Texas
WyrTwister Offline OP
WyrTwister  Offline OP

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,006
Texas
The timing system on my 289 has a cam gear / sprocket with plastic / nylon teeth . As a typical teenager of the time ., I had flogged it many times . The system was so worn I removed the chain before I removed the gears / sprockets . Had to go down to the parts house and purchase a puller to remove the sprocket / gear from the cam .

So much slack on the slack side of the chain , it had been rubbing on the front cover .

Buick 3.8l Timing chain , cam sprocket , tensioner $ 210.37 + freight RockAuto.com

Sonic 1.8l Timing belt , tensioner , idler $ 127.79 + freight RockAuto.com ( not including water pump which is not under the plastic covers and can be services independently

The whole timing belt system can be accessed with out going " inside " the engine .

The kit for the 66 model 289 , 2 barrel engine is $ 20.54 + freight from RockAuto.com . Reverse progress ?

Wyr
God bless


[/quote]

I had a 289 in a 1965 Mustang and it had a timing chain and the chain had a very simple path, from the crankshaft up to the
cam shaft. The engine had push rods. I rebuilt the 289 in my Mustang at age 17 and learned a lot about engines.

Today's engines with a timing chain have a much more complex path for the chain with over head cams, idlers. [/quote]


Wyr
God bless
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: aquariuscsm] #5069113
04/09/19 09:10 AM
04/09/19 09:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,646
stl
MarkM66 Offline
MarkM66  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,646
stl
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I always thought chains were a lifetime part and belts were a maintenance item. I never once heard of timing chain failure until Ford's 5.0.


Google GM 3.6 . Cadillac, Traverse, Acadia, etc. Late 2000's especially.

Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: Ifixyawata] #5069121
04/09/19 09:17 AM
04/09/19 09:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 239
KS
DerbyDave Offline
DerbyDave  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 239
KS
Originally Posted by Ifixyawata
Originally Posted by Trav
(some new ones do run in oil)



Belts in oil? Sounds like it would normally be a recipe for disaster. shrug



I know it's not a car engine but my mower has a Honda GCV160 small engine with a timing belt that runs in oil. Considering there are probably millions of those engines out there you would think if there was a problem it would be pretty well known by now.


1997 Ford Taurus
2005 Buick Terraza
2007 Honda Ridgeline
1986 Suzuki Cavalcade
1986 Suzuki Intruder
Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: oldhp] #5069143
04/09/19 09:38 AM
04/09/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 485
US
talest Offline
talest  Offline

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 485
US
Originally Posted by oldhp
Originally Posted by benjamming
Interference or non-interference is what you really need to know.


^^^^^This^^^^^^


In a non-interference engine, the belt can snap or come slightly loose to make a tooth or two jump and you will be okay.

Re: Timing Chain vs. Timing Belt [Re: WyrTwister] #5069151
04/09/19 09:48 AM
04/09/19 09:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,500
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,500
USA
Easy, chains. They don't need to be replaced smile

Timing chain noise is not a problem. Any noise the chain makes is drowned out by the fuel injectors anyway crzy

Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 6
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™