Tire Pressure

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I also figure the people who made my car know more about what tyre pressures it needs to use. I normally run it at the recommended high speed setting as it sometimes gets trips.

On motorcycles I often run lower pressures as I'm not usually using recommended tyres, and low pressure means traction for me.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I run the placcard pressure, that's what the OEM tested and arrived at. The tire manufacturer has no idea what vehicle the tire is going on, they simply state the pressure at which the maximum weight rating of the tire is achieved, which is likely wholly irrelevant to the vast majority of vehicles the tire is a proper fit for.


If I run the placard pressure, the tires look like they're very low on air, almost flat.
 
I usually check and set tire pressures every season. I try to air my tires up when the car has been sitting outside awhile at a temperature I expect to be a good average for the time of year. For example, with winter, I might go and check the vehicles when it's 25-30F out, that's a good middle of the road temp for the cold months here.

I typically round up to the nearest 5 PSI and go with that. My Maxima says 28, I set 30. Pacifica says 33, I set 35. Gives me a little cushion so that I'm not running below recommended pressure if the temps drop real low.

I used to set pressures about 10PSI higher (ends up being about 40psi for most my vehicles) for the fuel economy benefit, but in practice I found there is hardly any noticeable fuel savings, and often the center of the tire tread would wear faster than the outside edges. I also had a tire blow from hitting debris in the road once, I'm not certain but I suspect the tire would have had more of a chance if it had not been aired up as high.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by geeman789
Pressure drop is roughly 1 psi per 1 * C ... with a 40*C differential, you should be up at 41 psi garage pressure . At 36 psi garage, you are likely around 28 or 29 psi ambient. TPMS typically triggers at 25 % below recommended pressure, so about 26 psi.

The rule I've heard is closer to 1 psi per delta T of 10 F. Your mention of 1 psi per 1 C would mean a 40 PSI differential, whereas you're quoting an 8 PSI change (which isn't absurd in the least), since that would be 1 PSI per 5 C, which, again, is certainly not absurd.

My compensation does work, and my TPMS will actually kick off around 30 PSI; it's extremely finnicky. Now, with my compensation, if I hit -40 or colder (and it did happen this winter, as you're aware), I'll get a warning. I think the highest I ever set it to in garage was around 39, not that 41 would be silly or out of the question, either. If I set it at 33 PSI on the hottest day of the summer, I get TPMS warnings long before a real winter day appears, at least by our standards. I don't mind the Infiniti's TPMS being as picky as it is. At least it's useful!

Overkill: My god daughter's Benz has two sets of pressures as well. Her TPMS was bothering her as well, since it was set indoors in a shop at a warm temperature, and then our February came. I set it to the German pressures, and the problem disappeared.
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Oh, to make matters worse, her tires were about finished in February, and she ran something over, got a flat, and had no spare. It was -30 and she was so happy, too!


Oops ... meant to say roughly 1 psi per 5* C change ... as you noted. 10 * f change is about 5.5 * c.

I have seen techs in a 15 *c shop inflate tires to the placard spec ... on a - 30 * c. winter day ... not understanding how much the pressure will drop when the tires cool down to ambient temps. Then the service advisor says to the customer who returned with a TPMS warning light ... don't worry, it only comes on because it's cold outside ... ignorance is bliss, until you get that flat at - 30 *c.
 
Originally Posted by das_peikko
If I run the placard pressure, the tires look like they're very low on air, almost flat.

So what?

Most tires are designed to look like that when properly inflated.
 
I do 41 psi on tyres calling for 29-35 psi.
However with 51 psi maximum pressure displays on sidewall ,am I permitted (by tyre manufacturer or vehicle OEM ??) to go up to 45-50 psi ?
Anybody would endorse this, and why ?
Just curious ......
 
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Radial tires when set to a proper pressure appear to be low on pressure when they are NOT. Radial cords allow the tire footprint to stay constant on the road when cornering. Raising pressure defeats the purpose of having radial tires. Quattro Pete understand it also. Ed.
 
Originally Posted by zeng
I do 41 psi on tyres calling for 29-35 psi.
However with 51 psi maximum pressure displays on sidewall ,am I permitted (by tyre manufacturer or vehicle OEM ??) to go up to 45-50 psi ?
Anybody would endorse this, and why ?


I have done that for hundreds of thousands of miles

I only do it for
1. Load rating
2 fuel economy
 
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by zeng
I do 41 psi on tyres calling for 29-35 psi.
However with 51 psi maximum pressure displays on sidewall ,am I permitted (by tyre manufacturer or vehicle OEM ??) to go up to 45-50 psi ?
Anybody would endorse this, and why ?


I have done that for hundreds of thousands of miles

I only do it for
1. Load rating
2 fuel economy

Ehh .... sounds like a big confidence booster to consider giving it a go ?
Thanks folk.
 
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I run the placcard pressure, that's what the OEM tested and arrived at. The tire manufacturer has no idea what vehicle the tire is going on, they simply state the pressure at which the maximum weight rating of the tire is achieved, which is likely wholly irrelevant to the vast majority of vehicles the tire is a proper fit for.


If I run the placard pressure, the tires look like they're very low on air, almost flat.


But that appearance qualifies as what exactly? Radials always bulge at the bottom, using that a barometer for appropriate airing isn't a wise move. The OEM has determined what's proper, which should override any personal feelings, particularly those which are based solely on something as superficial as appearance.
 
Originally Posted by zeng
I do 41 psi on tyres calling for 29-35 psi.
However with 51 psi maximum pressure displays on sidewall ,am I permitted (by tyre manufacturer or vehicle OEM ??) to go up to 45-50 psi ?
Anybody would endorse this, and why ?
Just curious ......



Sure, you could go to max tire pressure. The tire is built to handle that pressure. But, the car maker, after comprehensive testing, will recommend a tire pressure that meets their requirements for ride comfort, responsiveness, tire wear and fuel economy. And, usually it will be much lower than the MAX sidewall pressure.

The MAX sidewall pressure on the tire allows the tire to carry its MAXIMUM rated load. And most road cars even fully loaded, are no where near this total weight. Light trucks with a full load, yes.

Running tires at MAX sidewall pressure does get you slightly better fuel economy, and a more responsive feeling tire. You don't get maximum grip though, and the tire will be very harsh over bumps and cracks in the road.


Your choice ...
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by das_peikko
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I run the placcard pressure, that's what the OEM tested and arrived at. The tire manufacturer has no idea what vehicle the tire is going on, they simply state the pressure at which the maximum weight rating of the tire is achieved, which is likely wholly irrelevant to the vast majority of vehicles the tire is a proper fit for.
If I run the placard pressure, the tires look like they're very low on air, almost flat.
But that appearance qualifies as what exactly? Radials always bulge at the bottom, using that a barometer for appropriate airing isn't a wise move. The OEM has determined what's proper, which should override any personal feelings, particularly those which are based solely on something as superficial as appearance

One would be a fool to increase the pressure on a radial tire until the "almost flat" bulge disappears.
 
I had tires installed this week; one was left at 42, two at 40 and last one at 35.
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I decided to leave it alone for now. Have to say, after fixing the sway bar so that it worked it corners much differently! I might split the difference and go with 35 (door jam says 30).

Will say, the tires certainly don't look flat.

I often bump pressures as it changes "how it feels". My wife's car though I leave alone as when I tried that it did wear the tires in the center--I guess I corner harder than her. In the end I try to go by that, see how the tire wants to wear, adjust as necessary.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
Pressure drop is roughly 1 psi per 1 * C ...


I'd like to know your source for that. I calculate more like 0.2 psi per degree C. I'm basing this on 35 psig and 20 Degrees C as base conditions I calculate 0.17 psi / degree C in theory.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
I have seen techs in a 15 *c shop inflate tires to the placard spec ... on a - 30 * c. winter day ... not understanding how much the pressure will drop when the tires cool down to ambient temps. Then the service advisor says to the customer who returned with a TPMS warning light ... don't worry, it only comes on because it's cold outside ... ignorance is bliss, until you get that flat at - 30 *c.

When I did the G37 tires the last two times, it was with sensible weather, so it was never a problem. It was at the dealer. My usual tire place is funny with pressures. Every tire you ever get mounted there, I get home, and it's got 46 psi in it, winter, summer, European, North American. I don't think they own a tire gauge in the place.
wink.gif
Even after they affixing a patch it's 46 psi.

Back in the days with my LTD and so forth, and not having the heated garage, I'd just adjust the pressure when cold, right after pulling into a heated shop. I did check my tire pressure a lot more back then than I do know, when I think back on it.

George Bynum: It was just a typo. His result was correct, but there was a typo with 1 psi per degree C.
 
Unsafe At Any speed. The main problem with the Corvair was people not running the recommended tyre pressures. Like the VW Beetle, they had much lower pressure in the front tyres. Anyway, carry on knowing more about how to set up your car than the manufacturer.
 
The BMW's placard says 32 all around; I'm running 34, which strangely works well in the run-flats on these bombed-out streets. When I take a road trip later this year, I'll set them to 35 or 36 and see if I like the ride.
 
Wow! Lots to comment on! So allow me to start with how tire manufacturers decide what the max pressure is going to be:

- and for the sake of this discussion, I'm confining the talk to Standard Load Passenger car tires. Other types of tires are similar, but passenger car tires have this odd quirk that confuses things.

First, read up about Load Tables here:

www.barrystiretech.com/loadtables.html

Pay close attention to "The Notes of Page 1-34". Note that the Tire and Rim says that max pressure is either 35, 44 or 51 psi - and no other values are delineated. Why?

Because of speed rating tests. H rated tires are tested at 44 psi (3.0 bar), and V and higher speed rated tires are tested at 51 psi (3.5 bar), while all other tires are tested at 35 (2.4 bar) or 36 psi (2.5 bar) depending on what there max pressure is supposed to be.

Side note: Because the Tire and Rim Association (TRA) is US based, they use English units, while the other tire standardizing organizations use metric units - either bar or KiloPascals. This leads to some quirky situations when talking about pressure. Since P matric tires were first delineated back in the 1970's, TRA uses the round number 35 psi (about 2.4 bar) as the rating pressure for P metric tires, while ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Association) and JATMA (Japanese Automobile Tire Manufacturers Association) use the round number 2.5 bar or 250 kPa (about 36 psi).

I want to point out that I am rounding the numbers - and that the tests conducted on tires are NOT rounded - but I forget which way they are rounded.

What this all means is that S and T rated tires can have 35, 44 or 51 psi listed as the max pressure, and it is relatively arbitrary which of those 3 is chosen - that is, the tire's construction is NOT specifically designed around that pressure - AND - there aren't any vehicle manufacturers who specify pressures for their vehicles higher than 35 psi (36 psi for metric tires), with some notable exceptions.

Exceptions? German based vehicle manufacturers who specify H or higher speed rated tires, because Germany has the Autobahn with no speed limit, so the vehicle MUST be designed for that and that means the tires have to be capable of handling the top speed of the vehicle - hence the higher specified pressure for THAT condition. However even those vehicles don't specify that higher pressure for normal use.

Note: There are some other interesting exceptions, like the Chevy Astro which specifies 38 psi for a P metric tire, which in theory could be a 35 psi max pressure.

Where all this leads to confusion is that H and higher speed rated tires (The ones that MUST have 44 or 51 psi max pressures!) must also have constructions capable of passing their respective speed rating tests - and many folks interpret that to mean the tire is designed for the higher pressure and that's not accurate. More accurate is that the tire is designed to pass the speed rating test and the construction reflects that.

HOWEVER, the DOT endurance test is conducted at 35 psi (or 36 psi for hard metric tires) regardless of what the speed rating is - hence the construction changes for higher speed rating tires are only their for the speed.

So I call the pressure listed on the vehicle tire placard as a "Specification" - sort of like the oil viscosity is specified for the engine. You can do something different, but you have to be aware that the vehicle manufacturer doesn't endorse it.
 
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