Long long long term car ownership

Status
Not open for further replies.
The crazy Tax, Title & License fees (TT&L) are what keeps me from buying just about anything!

My Ninja 650 was only $2200.....

but was over $350 more to get plates put on it.

I can't even begin to imagine all the extra fees added on to a $50,000 purchase.

Nope, not for me.
 
Originally Posted by A_Harman
I bought my 2002 Camaro new and have put 271k miles on it. It's not just my car, it's MY CAR!
I have used it for track driving ever since I got it, and have had to do a lot of major repairs on it over the years:
4 sets of rear axle shafts.
3 rear end swaps, including a custom rear end build.
10 sets of front wheel bearings.
2 complete sets of springs.
at least 30 brake jobs, probably closer to 50.
1 broken front sway bar.
2 alternator replacements.
2 trips to body shops to repair crash damage, but nothing serious.
1 transmission rebuild when reverse got hard to find
1 clutch replacement as preventive maintenance when the trans was rebuilt
engine still runs good, but is consuming a lot of oil

I drive the car year-round, so I have 3 sets of wheels and tires for it: Blizzaks on the factory 16's for winter, Conti high-performance all-seasons on 17's for the other 3 seasons, and soft tires on 17's for track use.
I also have a set of C5 Corvette front brakes that get put on before track season, then go back to the factory front brakes for winter.

Why go through all this?
I just like driving it. It fits me.


What is your process to keep rust at bay? That's an impressive amount of driving.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
I always go into buying a vehicle with the thought of...I'm going to keep this thing forever. Then it's sitting there at around 170,00 plus miles, it needs a major repair (and small ones) and I bail. Just did it with a Lexus, it needed $4,000 in various reposts and I traded it in. Kind of regretting that when I'm paying my monthly car payment and that yearly $500 plus excise tax bill comes in. Never mind the dealer hidden fees when I bough the thing...the paper work prep crap.

I'm a tech, I know how vehicles can go south pretty quickly and start nickel and diming you, but maybe it is worth fixing these things? My Lexus had to go simply because almost every part for that car was three times as much as a typical brand, but I'm seriously considering keeping my latest vehicle (2018 Silverado) for a ridiculously long time.

Anyone go very very long term on a vehicle and was it worth it? Paying for those big big repairs.


1983 Silverado with 230K on the clock, bought new in June 83, she's been my daily driver since day 1. 700R4 tranny has been rebuilt twice, original block heads and manifolds, carb has been rebuilt, water pump relpaced twice,alternator twice, fuel pump once, AC rebuilt twice still blows cold. The 305 is tired but she still gets me where i want to go. 3K oil changes with dino.
11.gif
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
People chest thump about keeping cars forever and 300k+, but few ever actually do.

Long term ownership is really contingent on how well the car is holistically kept. The car is worth what it costs to replace it. But the standards of replacement make that pretty broad. Realistically it's how far the whole thing is headed towards ruin, not just the repair of the day.


Nah, long term ownership has to do with not wanting a replacement because the car you've got is perfection incarnate.

You could understand, say, a w123 Mercedes.
laugh.gif


I drove saturn s-series longer than their disposable marketing would cause the layman to expect, but it's because I didn't like the increased girth and complexity of newer cars. (Compare the 02 Corolla to the 03 for an example.)

Now I'm in prii because the price finally came down. They were marketed to yuppies and include thoughtful engineering touches. I'm easily flattered by this phenomena so it's a great fit. One will notice the shape/ form factor of the 2004 Prius has pretty much stuck around.

So I'll say people will keep a car on the road as long as it's not annoying them. A great car that needs a motor rebuild but is otherwise perfect may spur someone to perform that surgery. A car that spontaneously fails to start several times a year for stupid reasons (like bad solder compounds) will drive someone crazy, and the car will wind up on a buy-here-pay-here lot or directly in the junkyard. If I were driving in the mid-to-late 1970s and saw the new low-compression, big bumpered junk rolling out I'd have stashed away a few late 60's hot rods.
banana2.gif
 
Originally Posted by eljefino


Nah, long term ownership has to do with not wanting a replacement because the car you've got is perfection incarnate.




01.gif


My most recent purchase had to be towed home, then I had to work on it for a month before I'd even take it out of my neighborhood. Now I drive it basically daily. Totally worth it.

Buy what makes you happy. If it breaks and you don't love the replacement options, fix it. If it's not fixable due to rust or whatever, buy the same thing without rust.
 
My F-450 is a good example-30 years old, getting rusty (again, the '91 F-150 cab is showing signs), always needs something fixed, but I could buy a decent 2nd home for what a new one would cost, likely $75-80K easily for the covered utility body & diesel!
 
When I was younger, I was more interested in keeping things for many years and miles than I am now.
I had no trouble with having to do a quick repair after work so that I could use the thing the next day.
Today, I view cars as transportation pieces that offer varying degrees of entertainment in various forms but that must function reliably for us in daily use with only maintenance required as well as consumables like brakes and tires.
Cars these days are very reliable and the worst new car is better than the best of forty years ago.
When someone speaks of running any given vehicle "forever", my first question is why would you want to.
Also, older vehicles have none of the potentially life-saving active and passive safety features that you find in even cheap cars these days.
Another factor is that newer vehicles are really cheap to run in terms of fuel expense as compared to older ones of similar class.
 
2011 Prius. Out of nowhere, the head gasket decided to fail at 185K. It is a somewhat common issue on the 2ZR-FE and 2ZR-FXE engines at higher mileage (150K+). With the labor rates out here, the market price for the repair was between $4200-$4800.

I did the job myself for about $900. This includes a new overhaul gasket kit, plugs, thermostat, machine shop work and even a new intake VVT cam gear. It took me about 11 hours. I thought long and hard about replacing the car but decided to keep it for a bit longer since the time and cost to do the work myself was very reasonable.

If I had to pay someone, I would have replaced the car. The rest of the car is in otherwise excellent shape. All maintenance and repairs are up to date. Unfortunately it is only worth $5-$6K.
 
Last edited:
My parents do no DIY but find a decent mechanic(currently $65/hr) who is reasonable. They have kept all base mode vehicles for 20 years in New England that have 200K plus and usually rust gets them.
 
Some BMW's are amazing cars to drive, for example that 09 335 when tuned is just stupid fast and handles like an M car but when you hear people saying BMW stands for: Bring My Wallet, But My Wife, Barvarian Money Waster ect, well there's a reason. I'd never want to own one out of warranty and the same goes for any Subaru, the KIA Stinger TT or any new Infiniti product.
 
Our family took a 1997 Accord 2.2L 5 speed from 250000 kms to 430000 kms (260000 miles), with basically no repairs. But at the end, it needed a steering rack, an a/c compressor, a wheel bearing, an oil leak fixed, and the paint was shot. Taught two of my kids how to drive a manual with it, and the original clutch was still good at the end. It was a great, trouble free car.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
Anyone go very very long term on a vehicle and was it worth it? Paying for those big big repairs.

I'm still driving my 1991 F-150. It's never had what I would call a big repair bill. Or nickel and dimed me. Usual maintenance stuff, but nothing big. Still running the original A/C compressor. But R-12 is getting expensive. It's used a few pounds over the years. (1991 was the last year Ford used R-12. They went to R-134 in 92). It's pushing 180,000 miles.

I have no intention of ever selling it. I wouldn't get anything for it. It's a great truck for going shooting to the range in. And an 8 ft. bed always comes in handy.
 
Never been a forever vehicle person. I buy used and drive until repairs are more than I am willing to spend. I just purchased my latest used car back in August. Usually vehicles are over 100k with last 2 as exceptions as the Saturn had 80k which I drove for 50k (6 years) and Grand Caravan with 3k on it.
 
I keep my cars almost forever.

Kept an '81 Toyota Celica for 13.5 years. Rust got it in the end, that and my daughter who had taken it over decided to take a teaching job in Europe.

Kept an '86 Volvo 740 Turbo for 18.5 years. It started to get a bit rusty. Sold it to a friend who drove it for 5 more years.

My current 2000 BMW is 19 years old. It has a couple of rust spots. And it has been costing a bit for repairs lately, though well under $1,000 per year. Has about 100,000 miles on it. Other than the rust it's in good condition, everything works and it runs and drives beautifully. I'm debating whether to get the rust repaired ($2000 to $3,000, and as much as $4000 for a cut out and metal replacement) or just move on.

My current Honda Accord is 12 years old. It also has about 100,000 miles on it. It had an unfortunate run-in with a deer when it was almost new, and there is a little rust on the inside lower edge of the repaired doors. I plan to make that right this summer with phosphoric acid and POR 15. Aside from that (and a burned out bulb on the seat heater switch which I'll fix myself) it's perfect. It has been very reliable as well.

I buy a car I really like in the first place, maintain it well and then just keep going. I also prefer manual transmissions in part because I find them more reliable long term.
 
This is a great thread. I also like to keep cars for way longer than the average person probably would. My daily driver is a 2003 Saturn LW-200, with 213K miles. It has the L61 engine, 2.2 Ecotec, and I worry about the timing chain problems that these early versions of this engine have had reports of. I change the oil around every 5K with full syn (now Valvoline high mileage full syn) and an AC Delco/Hengst oil filter. Last week, I replaced the crank sensor (AC Delco) as a preventive maintenance thing, and I may take it to a GM dealer to have them inspect the timing chain tension and install the current design timing chain tensioner. I bought it in 2004 from a Saturn dealer with 17K miles. They had been trying to sell it for a few months for $14K, and when they dropped the price to $12,500, I drove it & bought it. I think it is the best value for money of any of my car purchases. The original sticker was $21K. I still enjoy driving it, and like the practicality of a wagon, but I would probably give up on it if the timing chain broke or something else catastrophic like that.
Some parts are getting hard to find, like the rear short parking brake cables. Most of the L's had rear disc brakes, but starting in 2003, the 4 cylinder L's went to rear drum brakes. I had to order them on EBay Germany, for an Opel Vectra B. If you can't get mechanical parts, that is also a reason to give up on a keeper car that you really like.
I also have an 88 Dodge Aries, which I purchased new. These days, it is just a fair weather fun driver, and also the occasional car show. I had a big repair done on it last month - new heater core (weak heat, new core was cheap) and new A/C evaporator, to replace a leaker. Of course, both were done at the same time.
I also had a 91 Plymouth Acclaim (2.5 4 cylinder) that almost made it to 200K miles until the engine developed a bad shaking at idle, and a 91 Buick Century 3.3 V-6 which also got close to 200K miles, and then went to my mother-in-law, and was her last car.
 
Oh yeah, I sold my 1993 Toyota 4wd PU strippie to my brother in law 10+ years ago for $2,000.
Mainly to keep it in the family.
His son is driving it now. He sez it has about 350K miles and needs nothing.
I'm just dying to adjust those valves on that 22RE 4 banger again...
 
Originally Posted by GZRider
Some BMW's are amazing cars to drive, for example that 09 335 when tuned is just stupid fast and handles like an M car but when you hear people saying BMW stands for: Bring My Wallet, But My Wife, Barvarian Money Waster ect, well there's a reason. I'd never want to own one out of warranty and the same goes for any Subaru, the KIA Stinger TT or any new Infiniti product.


Oh, I don't know. I have 204,xxx on my 07 335. It's been a bit of a pain with a few injector failures and more oil leaks than I can count. And evaporator failures, constant suspension issues (sport packages and Minnesota roads do not mix), engine mounts, a radiator replacement so challenging it brought me to tears, more oil leaks... lots of maintenance issues. BUT I'm on my original turbos, engine has never been opened up, original trans, and, as you say, amazing handling and performance.

Here's where it is for me: I can keep plowing $1-2k per year in parts into the car. I do the labor and, might I say, have become pretty comfortable taking this e90 apart and putting it back together. OR I could spend $25-30k on something much newer, but also have maintenance to deal with. PLUS a payment.

I bet I can get my n54 to 250k.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Railrust
Anyone go very very long term on a vehicle and was it worth it? Paying for those big big repairs.

I'm still driving my 1991 F-150. It's never had what I would call a big repair bill. Or nickel and dimed me. Usual maintenance stuff, but nothing big. Still running the original A/C compressor. But R-12 is getting expensive. It's used a few pounds over the years. (1991 was the last year Ford used R-12. They went to R-134 in 92). It's pushing 180,000 miles.

I have no intention of ever selling it. I wouldn't get anything for it. It's a great truck for going shooting to the range in. And an 8 ft. bed always comes in handy.


This your daily driver? Sounds like more of a side vehicle, and absolutely nothing wrong with that. I do a lot of driving, my yearly average is 28,000, but lately I've been taking the wife's car on the weekends...firgure I'll be able to shave 5,000 a year off or so. But I think it's awesome you're hanging on to that Ford pickup...can't believe that thing still uses the R12! No conversion, probably best you didn't.

I used to have an old beat up Ford Ranger and then another car I commuted in. My commuter car started to become a headache so I decided to trade it in, sell the Ranger and just go with one vehicle (a 2018 Silverado). I figured...hey I need a pickup and with the way these new trucks drive so smooth and quiet, with very good gas mileage...why not make it your commuter too? So that's what I did. The question with me is, unlike in years past, can I keep this thing super long term? When it needs that transmission at 180,000 miles and it needs tires, shocks, and is starting to consume a quart of oil every 1,200 miles, am I going to fix it and keep going, or am I going to cut bait and bail? Because that's what I've always done in the past, cut bait. But as I pay my latest car payment, and those yearly excise taxes come in, and those high insurance bills??? I'm starting to wonder if I should have just fixed my last car. I guess I could have just went used instead of new, but then I would've had to sell my other vehicle outright and I really couldn't have with all of its issues. But still next time I'll either keep this thing 300,000 plus, or I'll decommission it and buy a used commmuter car or something.

It would be cool to keep my truck forever though, maybe turn it into something....add rims, a lift kit or something if I'm not daily driving it. Kind of make it my fun project type of thing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by tomlct
This is a great thread. I also like to keep cars for way longer than the average person probably would. My daily driver is a 2003 Saturn LW-200, with 213K miles. It has the L61 engine, 2.2 Ecotec, and I worry about the timing chain problems that these early versions of this engine have had reports of. I change the oil around every 5K with full syn (now Valvoline high mileage full syn) and an AC Delco/Hengst oil filter. Last week, I replaced the crank sensor (AC Delco) as a preventive maintenance thing, and I may take it to a GM dealer to have them inspect the timing chain tension and install the current design timing chain tensioner. I bought it in 2004 from a Saturn dealer with 17K miles. They had been trying to sell it for a few months for $14K, and when they dropped the price to $12,500, I drove it & bought it. I think it is the best value for money of any of my car purchases. The original sticker was $21K. I still enjoy driving it, and like the practicality of a wagon, but I would probably give up on it if the timing chain broke or something else catastrophic like that.
Some parts are getting hard to find, like the rear short parking brake cables. Most of the L's had rear disc brakes, but starting in 2003, the 4 cylinder L's went to rear drum brakes. I had to order them on EBay Germany, for an Opel Vectra B. If you can't get mechanical parts, that is also a reason to give up on a keeper car that you really like.
I also have an 88 Dodge Aries, which I purchased new. These days, it is just a fair weather fun driver, and also the occasional car show. I had a big repair done on it last month - new heater core (weak heat, new core was cheap) and new A/C evaporator, to replace a leaker. Of course, both were done at the same time.
I also had a 91 Plymouth Acclaim (2.5 4 cylinder) that almost made it to 200K miles until the engine developed a bad shaking at idle, and a 91 Buick Century 3.3 V-6 which also got close to 200K miles, and then went to my mother-in-law, and was her last car.


Sounds like you have gotten your money's worth out of that Saturn! And you're right, some parts are hard to come by on those Saturns. Who knows? Maybe that thing will never experience the chain problems they were known for? I owned a Honda Accord once, kept that thing nearly 17 years (the only time I really went pretty long term on a car), and those things were known for transmission failures, well I never experienced it, if I had I probably wouldn't have put a tranny in it...I probably never would have kept it to 282,000 miles. And that's alaways been my problem, I've never done that big repair to keep something going. But like other have stated, it may be worth it.
 
Originally Posted by GZRider
Some BMW's are amazing cars to drive, for example that 09 335 when tuned is just stupid fast and handles like an M car but when you hear people saying BMW stands for: Bring My Wallet, But My Wife, Barvarian Money Waster ect, well there's a reason. I'd never want to own one out of warranty and the same goes for any Subaru, the KIA Stinger TT or any new Infiniti product.


A friend of mine owns a 335 awd and it's a fun fast car. He commutes in it, big commute, he puts like 35,000 a year on it. When he first bought the car it had 50,000 miles on it and I said to him, you know this thing is going to cost you, this isn't like that Toyota Camry you just owned. He said he understood - then the electric water pump went on it, then the dash cluster, then it started drinking oil...then his face started to turn green. Lol. I think he's into it for $3,000 in repairs right now and he isn't going to fix the oil consumption obviously because that would mean new rings and a $12,000 dollar repair. He asked me to replace the electric water pump for him...I took one look under there and said no way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top