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Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Bill_W] #5063149
04/03/19 02:09 PM
04/03/19 02:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,447
Virginia
bbhero Offline
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Virginia
^^^^^^^^

Interesting line of thinking. I'd bet the Toyota and Nissan OEM manufactured air filters are quite high filtration air filters. Like 99.5+% per ISO 5011. I bet Toyota and Nissan place a higher premium on air filter efficiency then the oil filter efficiency.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Bill_W] #5063298
04/03/19 04:29 PM
04/03/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Bill_W
Maybe the filter to focus on for efficiency is the air filter.

Nice article on wear particle testing.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29657/wear-particle-analysis


That article has nothing to say about the correlation between oil filter efficiency, oil cleanliness and engine wear. It only discusses the methods of analyzing contamination level and the particulate composition in oil.

Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: dnewton3] #5063318
04/03/19 04:55 PM
04/03/19 04:55 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Looking at them with Premium filters typically 95% or better (Ultra, TG, Boss, PureOne, etc) versus Toyota brand normal filters at 60% or so (very loose) filters.


FYI ... the Boss is not 95% or better at 20u. It's 99% @ 40u. What were the "premium filters" and their efficiency used in your data?

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Anyone who wants to buy the "best" is welcome to do so; spend your money in a manner you see fit.


Exactly ... I'll continue to use 95% @ 20u or better oil filters for the previous reasons Ive mentioned ... cheers

Real world particle count data shows oil stays cleaner with more efficient oil filters, so that's all I need to know - regardless if I can tell a difference in engine wear from behind the wheel or not. Saying there is no difference in the total engine wear at 250,000+ miles is a nebulous conclusion based on it "still runs good". There was a test report done by the SwRI on testing 0W-16 vs 5W-30 oil (with the same additive package) in the same engine under various controlled test conditions, and they clearly proved that more overall engine wear resulted from using the 0W-16 ... yet many people in the PCMO forum swear that can't be true because the "junkyards are not full" of blown up engines using 0W-16. In order to conclude oil filters and motor oil result in less engine wear you need some pretty sophisticated and controlled test methods. Will it make a difference to most ... probably not, but from my viewpoint if I think/know it will result in less wear, and it's not much more cost to use better products then I'm going to do it.

I'm still waiting for that SAE paper or similar official study that shows there is no wear benefit to keeping oil cleaner than not. grin2

Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5063404
04/03/19 06:36 PM
04/03/19 06:36 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 225
So Cal
Bill_W Offline
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So Cal
Interesting read on oil filters...

https://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/do-oil-filters-even-matter.html

10 years old, well done though.

Last edited by Bill_W; 04/03/19 06:59 PM.

Slick
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Bill_W] #5063473
04/03/19 07:49 PM
04/03/19 07:49 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Bill_W
Interesting read on oil filters...

https://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/do-oil-filters-even-matter.html

10 years old, well done though.


BITOG member "river_rat" (hasn't posted since Sep 2012) is who did that website, and the data he obtained is all detailed in this thread of his.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...n-comparisons-from-the-bench#Post1616368

Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5063519
04/03/19 08:35 PM
04/03/19 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,241
Glenshaw, PA
Dad2leia Offline OP
Dad2leia  Offline OP

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Briefly looking at that thread...interesting concept, but as he stated, 10 years old now, and filters have changed a bit, which was the whole point of starting this thread.

I can't say much to time frames of posting...I haven't been posting on here until recently either grin2


Yeah, whatever..at least for now.
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5063558
04/03/19 09:10 PM
04/03/19 09:10 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Briefly looking at that thread...interesting concept, but as he stated, 10 years old now, and filters have changed a bit, which was the whole point of starting this thread.

I can't say much to time frames of posting...I haven't been posting on here until recently either grin2


Well, what's not changed since oil filters were first made, is that higher filter efficiency means cleaner oil as seen in particle count data.

Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: ZeeOSix] #5064266
04/04/19 02:49 PM
04/04/19 02:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,241
Glenshaw, PA
Dad2leia Offline OP
Dad2leia  Offline OP

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Glenshaw, PA
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Briefly looking at that thread...interesting concept, but as he stated, 10 years old now, and filters have changed a bit, which was the whole point of starting this thread.

I can't say much to time frames of posting...I haven't been posting on here until recently either grin2


Well, what's not changed since oil filters were first made, is that higher filter efficiency means cleaner oil as seen in particle count data.


Agreed...but the whole reason I started this thread was to find out about the happy medium. I too can appreciate wanting the cleanest possible oil circulating around my pistons, but for someone that really doesn't rack up the mileage anymore, wants very good (not spared no expense) protection and filtration, is why I was asking about the particular filters that I mentioned.

After countless times of reading, cross referencing, and viewing videos (good joking fodder there..), for me, I no longer can justify spending top dollar on everything car anymore, particularly when the more research you do, the more you find out that, just like most everything else, price goes up exponentially for every tenth of a percent of additional protection you get.

I know...more flaming to come...


Yeah, whatever..at least for now.
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5064298
04/04/19 03:21 PM
04/04/19 03:21 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 225
So Cal
Bill_W Offline
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So Cal
Biggest benefit to a car is oil change. I am getting a new Miata and going to get a oil drain valve. And as another site said I was anal when I suggested this was to buy a jug of Supertech Synthetic. While the oil drains out and new filter goes on I will stick the Supertech in and start and idle it till warmed up, then drain the Supertech back in the jug with the drain valve and fill with my regular Mazda recommended oil. Save the Supertech oil for next oil change. All done while up on the jack stands. As far as filters go I think there is more to a filter than just efficiency. (although that is a good thing) While under warranty I will use the Mazda OEM filters.

Last edited by Bill_W; 04/04/19 03:23 PM.

Slick
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5064383
04/04/19 05:03 PM
04/04/19 05:03 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Briefly looking at that thread...interesting concept, but as he stated, 10 years old now, and filters have changed a bit, which was the whole point of starting this thread.

I can't say much to time frames of posting...I haven't been posting on here until recently either grin2


Well, what's not changed since oil filters were first made, is that higher filter efficiency means cleaner oil as seen in particle count data.


Agreed...but the whole reason I started this thread was to find out about the happy medium. I too can appreciate wanting the cleanest possible oil circulating around my pistons, but for someone that really doesn't rack up the mileage anymore, wants very good (not spared no expense) protection and filtration, is why I was asking about the particular filters that I mentioned.

After countless times of reading, cross referencing, and viewing videos (good joking fodder there..), for me, I no longer can justify spending top dollar on everything car anymore, particularly when the more research you do, the more you find out that, just like most everything else, price goes up exponentially for every tenth of a percent of additional protection you get.

I know...more flaming to come...


If you want a "happy medium", then buy a brand name filter that is 95% @ 20u or better. Lots of filters fit that bill. If you're not driving a lot, you could also buy a high efficiency full synthetic filter and leave it on for 2 or 3 oil changes if you only say put 1000~2000 miles a year on the vehicle. Some guys here have done that too. If you bought a $10 filter and used it for 3 OCIs then it's only costing you $3.33 per OCI.

It all comes down to do you want to save a few bucks a year or do you want very good filtration?

Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: ZeeOSix] #5064587
04/04/19 08:50 PM
04/04/19 08:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,241
Glenshaw, PA
Dad2leia Offline OP
Dad2leia  Offline OP

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Glenshaw, PA
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Dad2leia
Briefly looking at that thread...interesting concept, but as he stated, 10 years old now, and filters have changed a bit, which was the whole point of starting this thread.

I can't say much to time frames of posting...I haven't been posting on here until recently either grin2


Well, what's not changed since oil filters were first made, is that higher filter efficiency means cleaner oil as seen in particle count data.


Agreed...but the whole reason I started this thread was to find out about the happy medium. I too can appreciate wanting the cleanest possible oil circulating around my pistons, but for someone that really doesn't rack up the mileage anymore, wants very good (not spared no expense) protection and filtration, is why I was asking about the particular filters that I mentioned.

After countless times of reading, cross referencing, and viewing videos (good joking fodder there..), for me, I no longer can justify spending top dollar on everything car anymore, particularly when the more research you do, the more you find out that, just like most everything else, price goes up exponentially for every tenth of a percent of additional protection you get.

I know...more flaming to come...


If you want a "happy medium", then buy a brand name filter that is 95% @ 20u or better. Lots of filters fit that bill. If you're not driving a lot, you could also buy a high efficiency full synthetic filter and leave it on for 2 or 3 oil changes if you only say put 1000~2000 miles a year on the vehicle. Some guys here have done that too. If you bought a $10 filter and used it for 3 OCIs then it's only costing you $3.33 per OCI.

It all comes down to do you want to save a few bucks a year or do you want very good filtration?



So in your case ZeeOSix, given your specific parameters, which filter or filters do you use? I am truly curious.


Yeah, whatever..at least for now.
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5064637
04/04/19 09:49 PM
04/04/19 09:49 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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^^^ Like I said before, my lower point cut-off is 95% @ 20u. I've used Amsoil, AC Delco Ultraguard, regular WIX/NAPA Gold, Purolators (Classic and PureOne ... before the tearing problem) and of course the Ultra. I stopped using Toyota OEM filters on my Tacoma after seeing how inefficient they were at filtering. Many people here who where into PureOne filters (me included) for their high efficiency jumped over the the Ultra when the Purolator media tearing problem popped up 4~5 years ago. I won't use a filter that I don't know the ISO 4548-121 xx% @ yy micron efficiency rating.

Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: Dad2leia] #5064904
04/05/19 08:35 AM
04/05/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,174
Bad Axe, MI
daman Offline
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Baldwin are quality well made filters but there filtering specs are nothing to wright home about.


"Always"....Mobil 1

Current fill: AFE 0w30
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: daman] #5065530
04/05/19 06:36 PM
04/05/19 06:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,241
Glenshaw, PA
Dad2leia Offline OP
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Glenshaw, PA
Originally Posted by daman
Baldwin are quality well made filters but there filtering specs are nothing to wright home about.


I will confess, I bought them for the build quality, plus I got a decent price on buying the case of 12. Case is almost gone which is why my query with this topic.


Yeah, whatever..at least for now.
Re: Oil filter discussion [Re: ZeeOSix] #5066449
04/06/19 08:35 PM
04/06/19 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,241
Glenshaw, PA
Dad2leia Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
^^^ Like I said before, my lower point cut-off is 95% @ 20u. I've used Amsoil, AC Delco Ultraguard, regular WIX/NAPA Gold, Purolators (Classic and PureOne ... before the tearing problem) and of course the Ultra. I stopped using Toyota OEM filters on my Tacoma after seeing how inefficient they were at filtering. Many people here who where into PureOne filters (me included) for their high efficiency jumped over the the Ultra when the Purolator media tearing problem popped up 4~5 years ago. I won't use a filter that I don't know the ISO 4548-121 xx% @ yy micron efficiency rating.


Ok, so you listed what you have used, which particular one has the best efficiency rating based on your standards?


Yeah, whatever..at least for now.
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