My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car

[wings&wheels]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
$5000 is a woefully insufficient budget to get into high performance track days.
Maybe do a couple of events renting a prepped cheapo econobox to see if she really likes it.
In the meantime set her up to drive a manual car of any type on the street for a couple of months.

Then if she really wants to get into the hobby, a nice used Porsche Boxster S.
With a manual transmission.
You really have to work on her to get her to take a manual.
Tell her she's not really driving unless she has a manual.

With a Porsche, she can also join the local Porsche Club, who are generally nice people.
And they do social events, and have good driver education programs. Sometimes they put on women-only events.

And absolutely nix any inclination toward a Miata. They spend so much time pulling over for faster cars that their drivers never get a clear lap.



Agree on all the above, w a caveat; is the Boxster S the right first serious track toy? Hardtops, if required, are silly money, and only $5K buys you a ratty 986 with many potentially very expensive needs... I'd say the rental idea is great or a Miata first, plus the pulling over is a great motivator.

For that $ range there are also the BMW e36 series; 325is, 323is, 328is or 318ti. I did my first HPDE in a '98 328is...fun and relatively forgiving.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Tell her to buy a nice MGM and put the money she'd waste on racing in an IRA.
And pay cash for everything.


I must be getting old because I thought the same. Save it for retirement. But then, living until retirement isn't guaranteed and $10k isn't that much fun money

 

[555]

Miata with a manual.
Mustang with automatic.
Draw up a budget with your sister. Be positive, but she should know what things cost(tires come to mind) and how often they need replacing.
Do you know specialist shops you trust that work on track cars too? This could also be a deciding factor.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by ddombrowski
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Auto and under 5 k?
Volvo 240 sedan. You can find some decent upgrades for pretty cheap.
Easy to repair as well.


Funny

I wasn't making a joke.
That era Volvo had some of the most reliable auto transmissions ever.

As many have said before,
it's more fun to drive a "slow car" fast, than a "fast car" slow

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
As many have said before,
it's more fun to drive a "slow car" fast, than a "fast car" slow

Yeah, no.

Not on a race track.

 

[MCompact]

I think a novice is better served by starting out in a relatively low horsepower car- the reason being that horsepower and an alphabet soup of safety nannies will cover up a multitude of driving sins. I learned a lot from driving my Club Sport because if you screwed up a corne it would cost you for the remainder of the lap. As an HPDE instructor I find that a surplus of horsepower and the electronic stability controls lead a student to think he/she is a much better driver than he/she actually is. I wish I could start all my students out in an E30 318is or an early Miata so that they could learn the fundamentals of performance driving without the distraction of a lot of power or the insulation from vehicle dynamics that plague all too many modern cars.

 

[dailydriver]

'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options.

Most on BITOG dont' care about logic or reason.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options.

Yes, great for learning. Not so great when all you do is point-bys at every HPDE. What are you learning then?

By all means she should get some formal instruction.
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by dailydriver
'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options.

Most on BITOG dont' care about logic or reason.

There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.

Keep tapping your forehead, but do it harder for good measure.

I have not made a singe high-hp recommendation.

Not one.

What I have suggested are cars that are small and well-balanced, with masses of race parts and online support available. I could pick up a Craigslist Boxster for $2,500 and have a more suitable track day car from day one than the whole $7,500 budget dumped into an old brick.

 

[Kjmack]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.

Keep tapping your forehead, but do it harder for good measure.

I have not made a singe high-hp recommendation.

Not one.

What I have suggested are cars that are small and well-balanced, with masses of race parts and online support available. I could pick up a Craigslist Boxster for $2,500 and have a more suitable track day car from day one than the whole $7,500 budget dumped into an old brick.

The Only thing the Volvo would be good for is teaching her to her to never buy a new one , and how to look for oil sales because she would need alot of it .

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.

Keep tapping your forehead, but do it harder for good measure.

I have not made a singe high-hp recommendation.

Not one.

What I have suggested are cars that are small and well-balanced, with masses of race parts and online support available. I could pick up a Craigslist Boxster for $2,500 and have a more suitable track day car from day one than the whole $7,500 budget dumped into an old brick.


OK, agreed in pure performance factor, but have YOU actually had to wrench on an old 986??

I have (my brother's decrepit rolling garbage can taking up space in the garage), and I would rather have a whole mouth's worth of root canals done at one time, SANS anesthesia, than to do so ever again.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
OK, agreed in pure performance factor, but have YOU actually had to wrench on an old 986??

Nope.

I have zero experience with high mileage clapped-out Porsches, BMWs, VWs, or Audis.

 

[ddombrowski]

Originally Posted by 555
Miata with a manual.
Mustang with automatic.
Draw up a budget with your sister. Be positive, but she should know what things cost(tires come to mind) and how often they need replacing.
Do you know specialist shops you trust that work on track cars too? This could also be a deciding factor.


I am the specialist shop.

Im not sure if it got missed in the original post but I race in Champcar with a few different cars. If I can get her to feel comfortable with manual, she has access to plenty of race cars I can put her in for a track day. She wants her own car though, and thats fine. It does seem she's reconsidering the automatic, which is great news.

 

[ddombrowski]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
As many have said before,
it's more fun to drive a "slow car" fast, than a "fast car" slow

Yeah, no.

Not on a race track.


It depends on the field. At the beginnings of Champ and Lemons, when all the cars sucked, it was a ton of fun to drive a slow car fast.

Take that same car to a track day and go up against a field of M3s, corvettes, and 911s, and I'm doing nothing but point-bys. Its still manageable though.

 

[RooflessVW]

I'll agree and say that when everyone is slow, everyone is fast. Spec Miata is some of the best racing around.

 

[ddombrowski]

We ended up picking up a 95 M3 with a 5 speed. Its a little rough but nothing I can't handle. She's already driving the car around town, not confidently, but she can get from A to B in suburbia. Hills and tight spaces she's still practicing.

 

[RooflessVW]

Excellent choice! I think I may have seen that car advertised.

Is it going to pull dual duty or are you going to gut and cage it?

 

[MCompact]

That's a great track car; reinforce the rear subframe mounts and be aware that the tight piston to valve clearance means that the S50 doesn't tolerate being wound up past the redline. Conversely, the S50 is based on the M50 so rebuild costs are not nearly as expensive as they would be for a "real" M motor.