Full Synthetic oil

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OilUzer

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I was checking out some oils and read this on amazon:

"Castrol 06244 EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil"
...
Full Synthetic Oil
This oil is a full synthetic oil, meaning crude oil is not used in making it."

Q:
can any engine oil be made with no crude oil? I thought that was not possible including even gtl.
 
If you dig into it, Castrol Edge 0W30 is one of the few oils containing some PAO in the base.
However, there is some crude oil in it. Technically it could have used more if Castrol wanted to formulate as such.
But very few full synthetic oils actually contain any PAO in them at all.

Castrol Edge 5W30 contains no PAO in it.
Castrol Edge 0W40 contains the highest PAO base % if you dig into it.

Even the true synthetic oils which were out before I got my drivers license still contained some crude oil in them as a carrier for the additive pack.
That was often stated in small print in old magazine ads I've seen.
 
My understanding is unless it says 100% Synthetic, you're getting a group lll oil that is refined into a synthetic. Which I imagine is still a very good product, and what I use.

What confuses me is, aren't they both oil? Whether it's a group lll processed into Synthetic or a PAO? I guess I don't understand the difference...is it that the PAO is a finer quality oil with less impurities? Is PAO refined to make it into a PAO? If so, is that any different than refining a group lll into a "full Synthetic"?
 
Group III base stocks are synthetic since they are synthesized. Polyalphaolefin base stocks are also synthesized. Neither one is "refined oil".

You can find all of this with a simple Google search.

Originally Posted by Railrust
My understanding is unless it says 100% Synthetic, you're getting a group lll oil that is refined into a synthetic. Which I imagine is still a very good product, and what I use.

What confuses me is, aren't they both oil? Whether it's a group lll processed into Synthetic or a PAO? I guess I don't understand the difference...is it that the PAO is a finer quality oil with less impurities? Is PAO refined to make it into a PAO? If so, is that any different than refining a group lll into a "full Synthetic"?
 
Come on every one ! :eek:)

Source 1

Source 2 (read the whole darn thing)

Source three, dont comment if you dont read the whole thing

Most people buy synthetic because they believe its better at preventing engine wear, splitting hairs on that, toss of the dice, some conventional oil are better at preventing engine wear, more so for people that change their oil on time.
If you change on time, you can use any oil and your engine will never know the difference, it might even benefit from conventional. It really doesnt matter.
Its oil, oil of the same exact API rating.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Full Synthetic Oil This oil is a full synthetic oil, meaning crude oil is not used in making it." Q:can any engine oil be made with no crude oil? I thought that was not possible including even gtl.
GTL, Gas-to-Liquids, aka "Group3+", base oil is synthetic that starts with natural gas, not crude oil. All else starts with crude oil. Same as plastics we use start with crude oil.

It's possible to start with CO2 in the air, and water to get any hydrocarbon oil we want, but this is seldom done. In the future it could be done more often, with injection of energy from nuke, solar, hydro, etc. ...
https://phys.org/news/2018-06-carbon-dioxide-sky-fuels.html (and remember hydrocarbon fuels are similar to hydrocarbon oils.)

It comes down to basics: Oil is made of hydrogen and carbon (oxygen is in Group5), all elements you can get from air, water, and any recycled plastics, tires, plants, etc., yet they usually start with crude oil to get syn oil.
 
My understanding is unless it says 100% Synthetic, you're getting a group lll oil that is refined into a synthetic
No, MFG can advertise refined mineral oil as "100% synthetic" or " Fully Synthetic oil"

don't understand the difference...is it that the PAO is a finer quality oil with less impurities?
PAO is different polymer structure than Hydrocracked mineral oil. I does have a low wax point therefore good extreme cold flow. It is highly non-polar. It doesn't "cling to metal".
But It does have less lubricity than the lower group mineral oil, a tendency to shrink seals, and poor solvent capabilities so it will require formulating with mineral oils or synthesized esters,

Full synthetic means there's 100% / 32oz of synthetic oil in that quart jug
Its means Its a full quart of "Full Synthetic Oil" which most likely is not synthetic oil. So, basically, they are Full of it.

What you used to comprise the advertised synthetic motor oil has been changed my marketing to include lower group numbers.
with lower performance in certain categories.

There are tens of synthetic base oils used for motor oil. They have different pluses and minuses.

You have to know what you want and why you want it
Or simply go by the Certifications and Approvals required by your manufacturer.
 
Clarification of above statement:

My understanding is unless it says 100% Synthetic, you're getting a group lll oil that is refined into a synthetic
No, Manufacturers CAN and DO advertise refined mineral oil** as "100% synthetic" or " Fully Synthetic oil"

**As severe hydrotreating, cat dewaxing and Hydroisomerisation are performed in a refinery and are performed on mineral oil stocks


Advertising and labeling obfuscations aside, it is clearly the performance of the finished product that matters most,
Though I do plead for clarity and truth in labeling from the Industry.
 
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And this along with other factors why I am going back to conventional oil unless manufacturer states otherwise. I looked at many UOA on this site and what I interpret is Full Synthetic is for people who want to extend oil changes but in many it is not a great idea. Seems like good ole conventional oil is better to change early with new fuel dilution problems that are shown here. I was hoping to prove to doubters that Synthetic oil and OLM was the way to go but now I have my doubts except in certain vehicles. Conventional oil is now a blend so some safety built in. Just my opinion.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Group III base stocks are synthetic since they are synthesized. Polyalphaolefin base stocks are also synthesized. Neither one is "refined oil".

The source of most Group III is still via a refinery output stream. At least it would be the starting point before hydrocracking. I guess that's opposed to PAO or GTL. Esters definitely don't require any crude oil products in the manufacturing.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
More information on the polar vs non-polar of PAO and how it applies to all base oils?




https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


I've read that before and don't recall anything in there about PAO being non-polar. Great explanation of the base oils, but doesn't answer my question unless I'm missing something.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
More information on the polar vs non-polar of PAO and how it applies to all base oils?




https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


I've read that before and don't recall anything in there about PAO being non-polar. Great explanation of the base oils, but doesn't answer my question.

It's not nonpolar. However, it's not terribly polar. The example I remember from high school chemistry was that water is polar and that's basically why it's the universal solvent that dissolves many ionic compounds. A stream of water would be attracted to a positively charged rod, and would also be attracted to a negatively charged rod.

But I guess it's not quite that PAO is absolutely non-polar. It's all relative to other molecules.

Quote
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31106/polyalphaolefin-pao-lubricants
Polyalphaolefin Characteristics
Polyalphaolefin does not contain ring structures, double bonds, sulphur, nitrogen components or waxy hydrocarbons. The absence of these structures and materials results in a very non-polar base oil with a high viscosity index (of approximately 130), excellent low-temperature flow and pour-point characteristics, good oxidation stability and compatibility with mineral oils, paints and seals commonly found in lube oil systems. Because of their controlled structure, PAOs do not contain lighter, more volatile (small) hydrocarbons. This lowers their volatility, creates less hydrocarbon tailpipe emissions and raises the flash point.

PAOs are used extensively in automotive fluids as well as hydraulic, gear and bearing oils, working in extremely cold climates or hot applications. They are also employed as base fluids in some wide temperature range greases. One application in which they have not worked well is in high-temperature (high-pressure) reciprocating air compressors where valve deposits have been an issue.

However, nothing is perfect, and polyalphaolefin base oils do have a few negative characteristics. These include the tendency to shrink seals and trouble dissolving common oil additives. Therefore, they are commonly blended or combined with organic ester synthetic base oils to provide a blended base oil that does not have these negative characteristics. Polyalphaolefins also have poor fire resistance and biodegradability.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Full synthetic means there's 100% / 32oz of synthetic oil in that quart jug.

That is impossible !
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Clarification of above statement:

My understanding is unless it says 100% Synthetic, you're getting a group lll oil that is refined into a synthetic
No, Manufacturers CAN and DO advertise refined mineral oil** as "100% synthetic" or " Fully Synthetic oil"

**As severe hydrotreating, cat dewaxing and Hydroisomerisation are performed in a refinery and are performed on mineral oil stocks


Advertising and labeling obfuscations aside, it is clearly the performance of the finished product that matters most,
Though I do plead for clarity and truth in labeling from the Industry.


You said it best ^^^
 
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