Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Danh
Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Danh
I get the Second Amendment issue, but help me out here: short of repelling a foreign invasion or in law enforcement work, of what use is a 30-round magazine? Or is the concern this ban could lead to others?
What will your hit percentage will be in a self-defense scenario?
How many rounds will it take to stop an attacker?
How many attackers will you face?
Tell me those numbers, and I'll tell you how many rounds you need.
Here's an estimate:
For the first two numbers, let's examine actual police shootings. The NYPD is widely reported to hit about 30% of the time. They're trained law enforcement, so I'll assume you can't do a lot better. It takes anywhere from one to 12 rounds to stop a determined assailant. Depends on hit accuracy, bullet lethality, physiology of the assistant, etc. but for arithmetic simplicity, let's go with 4 rounds.
Remember, because it's critical to this, or any self defense discussion, that you're trying to stop an assailant. Generally young, male, strong, and determined. If they die five minutes after killing you, your shot was ineffective. You need to stop the attack right now. That generally takes multiple rounds, again, in police shooting experience.
And you're facing three attackers who broke into your home.
So you need 1/0.3 (hit percentage) x 4 (numbers of rounds for a stop) x 3 (assailants)
You need 40 rounds.
But only if you're as good a shot as the cops.
See?
Arbitrary capacity limitations are a joke.
So guess you don't own a handgun? Or carry 4?
Arbitrary capacity limitations are still a joke.
I carry what I can. Legally and concealed. The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun.
Ask yourself this: what do the cops carry?
In most jurisdictions, it's a semi-auto pistol. Double stack. With TWO spare magazines. I'm betting they're carrying close to 40 rounds day in, day out. In Virginia Beach, for example, officers are allowed to carry the Glock 17 and the Glock 21. The 17 holds 17+1 9mm, so, with magazines, they're carrying 52 rounds. The 21 holds 13+1, so with magazines, they're carrying 40 rounds of .45 ACP.
However, a pistol is a contingency weapon. Small enough to have with you all the time. Small enough to conceal, if need be.
If I knew I was going to get into a fight for my life, I would have a rifle, and I would have several standard capacity magazines.
When we send our soldiers into combat, what are they carrying?
A single handgun?
4 hand guns?
Or, are they carrying a rifle, and at least 7 standard (30 round) magazines, with a handgun as a back up? By the way, every patrol car has a rifle or shotgun, in case the officer is called to a scene where they KNOW they're going to get into a fight.
If the threat is coming to me (i.e. in my house) then I am not constrained by size, or concealability.
I shouldn't be constrained by arbitrary magazine capacity, either.
Your initial ask was, "help me out here".
I hope I have.
Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Danh
Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by Danh
I get the Second Amendment issue, but help me out here: short of repelling a foreign invasion or in law enforcement work, of what use is a 30-round magazine? Or is the concern this ban could lead to others?
What will your hit percentage will be in a self-defense scenario?
How many rounds will it take to stop an attacker?
How many attackers will you face?
Tell me those numbers, and I'll tell you how many rounds you need.
Here's an estimate:
For the first two numbers, let's examine actual police shootings. The NYPD is widely reported to hit about 30% of the time. They're trained law enforcement, so I'll assume you can't do a lot better. It takes anywhere from one to 12 rounds to stop a determined assailant. Depends on hit accuracy, bullet lethality, physiology of the assistant, etc. but for arithmetic simplicity, let's go with 4 rounds.
Remember, because it's critical to this, or any self defense discussion, that you're trying to stop an assailant. Generally young, male, strong, and determined. If they die five minutes after killing you, your shot was ineffective. You need to stop the attack right now. That generally takes multiple rounds, again, in police shooting experience.
And you're facing three attackers who broke into your home.
So you need 1/0.3 (hit percentage) x 4 (numbers of rounds for a stop) x 3 (assailants)
You need 40 rounds.
But only if you're as good a shot as the cops.
See?
Arbitrary capacity limitations are a joke.
So guess you don't own a handgun? Or carry 4?
Arbitrary capacity limitations are still a joke.
I carry what I can. Legally and concealed. The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun.
Ask yourself this: what do the cops carry?
In most jurisdictions, it's a semi-auto pistol. Double stack. With TWO spare magazines. I'm betting they're carrying close to 40 rounds day in, day out. In Virginia Beach, for example, officers are allowed to carry the Glock 17 and the Glock 21. The 17 holds 17+1 9mm, so, with magazines, they're carrying 52 rounds. The 21 holds 13+1, so with magazines, they're carrying 40 rounds of .45 ACP.
However, a pistol is a contingency weapon. Small enough to have with you all the time. Small enough to conceal, if need be.
If I knew I was going to get into a fight for my life, I would have a rifle, and I would have several standard capacity magazines.
When we send our soldiers into combat, what are they carrying?
A single handgun?
4 hand guns?
Or, are they carrying a rifle, and at least 7 standard (30 round) magazines, with a handgun as a back up? By the way, every patrol car has a rifle or shotgun, in case the officer is called to a scene where they KNOW they're going to get into a fight.
If the threat is coming to me (i.e. in my house) then I am not constrained by size, or concealability.
I shouldn't be constrained by arbitrary magazine capacity, either.
Your initial ask was, "help me out here".
I hope I have.
You have helped. I get the points. Guess I just don't worry so much about home invasions involving multiple, young, armed youths. I grew up with guns for hunting but can't see myself ever owning a self-defense firearm, but maybe lots of other folks here live in different circumstances...