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Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: cdlamb] #5055525 03/27/19 10:33 AM
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StevieC Offline
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Oh I see what you are getting at. Maybe evaporation through the PCV?


'18 Caravan - 40k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: StevieC] #5055526 03/27/19 10:34 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Oh I see what you are getting at. Maybe evaporation through the PCV?

No, all the metallic additives would not preferentially evaporate out of the oil. I've never seen anything that shows that, have you?

As the additives go so does the oil. Even if the hydrocarbons were "distilling" out they wouldn't take the additives with them. In that case the concentration would increase, not decrease.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: StevieC] #5055604 03/27/19 11:29 AM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by ZZman
Some of those numbers look awfully low.

Short oil change interval.


4 OCIs in the equivilant of 17k miles .... the "longest" being 3300 miles .... with syns no less .... (insert sigh here)



Originally Posted by StevieC
In 5,000km (3,000 miles) it has used 1/3 of the calcium, Molly dropped by 1/4, Boron is almost 1/2, and Zinc is almost 1/2 and it dropped 0.8cst as well.

Somebody who knows more about how that works should explain how additives get "used" up during an OCI and disappear from the analysis.[/quote]
I'm not saying they shouldn't get used up, it's the low rate of mileage and the rate they were used up that is the issue when compared to other oils.[/quote]

Yes, I have been running a short OCI.

Trying to control a fuel dilution issue. The initial oil change was showing almost 8.5 % fuel dilution, (sample was sent to a different lab)

My IOLM was around 60% life remaining, which I probably could have extended, with the wear materials being low, but worried about the viscosity drop if fuel dilution was higher.

Yes I am concerned about the depleted additive pack, would like to know how it disappears.

Last edited by cdlamb; 03/27/19 11:34 AM.
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: cdlamb] #5055660 03/27/19 12:18 PM
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StevieC Offline
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5% and below is acceptable IMO not to increase wear so you are doing the right thing in the short-term until you can figure out why the fuel dilution is happening. I'd be interested to see if the majority of yours is related to the Winter-Blend fuel coupled with running richer more often because it's colder. It has been my experience in the vehicles I maintain anyway. We don't get nearly as cold as you do in SK for as long as you do during the winter.

Once they flip over to Summer fuel it should be a couple of weeks at a busy station that the tanks should be rid of all the winter fuel and then you can run a few tanks of summer fuel in your ride before checking it again. (If you want to).


Last edited by StevieC; 03/27/19 12:21 PM.

'18 Caravan - 40k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: cdlamb] #5055666 03/27/19 12:22 PM
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4WD Offline
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That power intensity of motor in Oz or other non CAFE place ? … Bet it’d be on an X40 … So, if I was changing it that often that gives a weather window to roll with a 0w40 for one OCI and see where it becomes a 30 … go a bit more …
My 3.5L eb was noticeably quieter when I stepped up … so assumed those 10m long chains got happy …

Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: cdlamb] #5055686 03/27/19 12:43 PM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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I have been logging all my oil changes with Pennzoil warranty program.
10 years 400,000 kilometers, free warranty for using their product.
Should cover me for as long as I own the truck.
My Ford dealer didn't want to do anything when I showed them the original oil change with 8.5% fuel dilution on the oil I drained from the new engine at an early OCI. Ford won't do anything unless a check engine light comes on. Was thinking about using a Catch Can, but didn't want to modify my engine to give Ford a reason to deny warranty.

Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: cdlamb] #5055693 03/27/19 12:56 PM
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kschachn Offline
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To be honest I'm not sure how you'd accurately measure an 8.5% fuel dilution level. Even on the lower levels if it's being done by a viscosity measurement then it is an estimation.


1994 BMW 530i, 246K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 420K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: 4WD] #5055819 03/27/19 03:00 PM
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dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted by 4WD
That power intensity of motor in Oz or other non CAFE place ? … Bet it’d be on an X40 … So, if I was changing it that often that gives a weather window to roll with a 0w40 for one OCI and see where it becomes a 30 … go a bit more …
My 3.5L eb was noticeably quieter when I stepped up … so assumed those 10m long chains got happy …



5W30 is the recommendation Ford knows 5W30's shear during and after use it was part the engine testing. If this was not sufficient Ford would make the grade recommendation a 40 grade. All the company did was bet the farm on that powerplant.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: StevieC] #5056018 03/27/19 07:07 PM
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Garak Offline
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Originally Posted by StevieC
In 5,000km (3,000 miles) it has used 1/3 of the calcium, Molly dropped by 1/4, Boron is almost 1/2, and Zinc is almost 1/2 and it dropped 0.8cst as well.

I have little problem with the oil. I have an issue with the accuracy of the UOA.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: Garak] #5056032 03/27/19 07:23 PM
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rollinpete Offline
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Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by StevieC
In 5,000km (3,000 miles) it has used 1/3 of the calcium, Molly dropped by 1/4, Boron is almost 1/2, and Zinc is almost 1/2 and it dropped 0.8cst as well.

I have little problem with the oil. I have an issue with the accuracy of the UOA.



Same Here.


Pete.

97 Ford Expl.Sport 4.0 ohv 4wd 5spd 188k miles
03 Saturn Ion 2.2 L4 5spd 239k miles
PP, PPHM 50/50 5w30

Currently under the influence of oil shocked2

Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: rollinpete] #5056197 03/27/19 10:12 PM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
To be honest I'm not sure how you'd accurately measure an 8.5% fuel dilution level. Even on the lower levels if it's being done by a viscosity measurement then it is an estimation.

Originally Posted by rollinpete
Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by StevieC
In 5,000km (3,000 miles) it has used 1/3 of the calcium, Molly dropped by 1/4, Boron is almost 1/2, and Zinc is almost 1/2 and it dropped 0.8cst as well.

I have little problem with the oil. I have an issue with the accuracy of the UOA.



Same Here.

The first sample was tested by Fluidlife labs in Edmonton using Gas Chromotography.

I haven't had an oil analysis come back that didn't have some reportable fuel dilution.
This is the first sample I have sent of the Pennzoil Platinum, but ran the last OCI with Penzoil platinum as well.
This is the first sample to have Boron flagged as reportable. When using the Motomaster the additive pack was:
178 Moly, 81 Boron, 2170 Calcium, 5 MG 658 P, 1002 ZN.
Looking at this report it appears there are 3 OCI's with reportable variances in Boron levels.

I am going to continue to run at 5-6000 km, (31-3700 miles) OCI, but only going to test annually.
I did send a duplicate sample into Blackstone labs to see how they compare.

This truck has not pulled anything yet, besides a boat, or an ATV in the bed. Might have to hook onto a camper trailer & give it a run this summer.

During break in process, I ran auto transmission manually, shifting up through the gears to vary, & hold higher RPMs.

Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: dave1251] #5056222 03/27/19 10:35 PM
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4WD Offline
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No news there … owned one of those loud motors that tested lowest DB on 0w40 … stink like gas when draining …

IMO, it’s just one more CAFE compromise like our L83’s are (use same AFM hardware when on 5w30 fill) …

Even my Cruze specs higher grade oil in other countries …

All of mine were/are “eco” something motors … (and my Fusion Hybrid is not) …

Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: MParr] #5056373 03/28/19 07:13 AM
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pbm Offline
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Originally Posted by MParr
Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 is a little on the thin side for my liking.


I agree it might be a bit thin for the OPs application....but I think PP 5w30 would work well in some 5w20 spec'd vehicles (like mine).
I'd probably try Mobil 1 5w30 or one of the other 'thicker' brand synthetics if I had an Ecoboost.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: pbm] #5057362 03/29/19 06:45 AM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by MParr
Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 is a little on the thin side for my liking.


I agree it might be a bit thin for the OPs application....but I think PP 5w30 would work well in some 5w20 spec'd vehicles (like mine).
I'd probably try Mobil 1 5w30 or one of the other 'thicker' brand synthetics if I had an Ecoboost.


Is it the viscosity index that indicates how thick an oil is? I might just stick with the PP. I have been sending receipt info into PP & bought in to their warranty program. If Ford wont stand behind their engine past their warranty, I can bark up Pennzoil tree.

I don't expect any problems from the engine, but I did keep my last truck until it had over 380000 kilometers, when it was stolen from me, so the 400000 km warranty isn't out of the question.

Re: Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 5350 km F150 3.5 EcoBoost [Re: cdlamb] #5058191 03/29/19 10:18 PM
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cdlamb Offline OP
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I sent Pennzoil a copy of my oil analysis, & surprisingly received a quick response.

I wanted their take on the fuel dilution issue, & advised them that I was going to take them up on their 400,000 kilometer warranty offer.

They seemed to consider 5% fuel dilution a condition that would still be safe, not as a Shell standpoint but on personal experience.

See attached reply:

Good morning Calvin,

Here is this answer received by the out lube support team.


In our LubeAnalyst system, we do not have Boron warning limits for Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 Full Synthetic Motor Oil as this is only present in the additive package as a dispersant. Boron does come with some anti-wear properties, but the main surface active anti-wear additive metals present in Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 are Zinc and Phosphorous, which appear to be fine in the oil analysis provided by the customer.
You can see that the Zn and P levels have all dropped significantly from the fresh oil, indicating they are doing their job in forming tribofilms around the engine.
We would not be worried about the fuel dilution levels currently, but a rough figure of 5% would be a good number to take action in future.
This is not a limit that Shell provide, this is an experience based level.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:

[email protected]

To:

[email protected]

CC:

Sent:

27.03.19 19:09:13

Subject:

Pennzoil Platinum Used oil analysis


I recently purchased a new 2018 F150 with the 3.5 EcoBoost engine, in May of 2018.
I have been changing oil at early oil change intervals (IOLM showing 60-80% oil life remaining) due to fuel dilution.
Are there any limits to additive depletion, that I should be monitoring?
Fuel dilution issues were as high as 8.47% with the factory installed engine oil when it was changed out at 3904 kilometers.
Oil was replaced with a synthetic Canadian Tire branded oil, for the next 3 OCI
I decided to switch to an oil that is labelled "redesigned for modern turbocharged engines", & a Dexos 1, Gen 2 approved oil, at 17626 kilometers.
I am currently using your PP 5W-30 and have completed 3 oil changes now with this oil.

On my oil analysis it appears that additives have dropped out on a relatively short OCI.

Should I worry about Boron levels being depleted to 58% of the new oil specifications? They flagged it as lower reportable.

This is the first oil analysis completed while using your oil shown at 27866 kilometers, but the previous oil change was also PP 5W-30 when oil was changed at 22516 kilometers, & first oil change with your product was at 17626 kilometers.

I contacted Ford (dealer, & corporate) about the first oil change & the fuel dilution I had, (fluidlife) & they will not do anything unless a check engine light comes on. They will not tell me what a safe level for fuel dilution is. I am changing my oil based on a severe operating conditions, but I do not drive under severe conditions. Most of my driving is at highway speeds, & I do not idle for extended periods.

I have committed to using your oil to take advantage of your 10 year engine warranty up to 400,000 kilometers.
I thought you might be interested in a copy of my oil analysis

See attached.

Thanks

Calvin Lamb

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