Fighting HOA - anyone have any luck?

[pezzy669]

So I am in the beginning stages of a huge dispute with the management company that my HOA has hired to mange our community and curious if it is even a battle I want to attempt.

Long story short my condo community has been severely mismanaged as for the 1+ year I have lived here. I am a commercial property manager by trade so I know how things should be when it comes to vendors and in tenant space access so I am not completely ignorant when it comes to the trade. Today will mark the 2nd day over the course of a year I have had to juggle my work schedule or take a PTO day because required repairs or inspections were needed in my unit, this will also be the 2nd time the hired vendors by my HOA for these required inspections or repairs either failed to show up all together or were rescheduled at the very last minute. Every time I get the notices from my HOA for these visits there are heavy threats of massive fines if I am not home when the service vendor needs to show up.

After the vendor no show today (when I specifically took the day off) I sent an email to the property manager indicating I would be deducting their dictated fine from my HOA dues the upcoming month. In return I was threatened with late and legal fees as I could not do that because of the unforeseen circumstances of the vendor. Seems super convenient I am threatened with a $250 flat + $92/hour fine if I am not at home but they just get off willy nilly if their vendor doesn't show.

Has anyone successfully lit up and fought their HOA on their own? If so what was your angle? I naturally don't have the legal fund that my 3rd party HOA management company has and really my only damage I could incur is keeping this issue raised with my HOA board (I already started that dialogue).

 

[Wolf359]

Instead of getting into a fight, why not just give them the key so you're not there? Then set up cameras. Put your valuables away. I've been a broker for 10+ years and never had a complaint that things were stolen from a tenant's unit. I always have the keys to my 10+ units too and no one has ever complained as nothing has ever been stolen. It's a common fear though. I usually have to talk sense into them. You could set up some camera home security system to watch what they're doing. Cheaper than wasting days at home.

 

[dishdude]

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Instead of getting into a fight, why not just give them the key so you're not there? Then set up cameras. Put your valuables away. I've been a broker for 10+ years and never had a complaint that things were stolen from a tenant's unit. I always have the keys to my 10+ units too and no one has ever complained as nothing has ever been stolen. It's a common fear though. I usually have to talk sense into them. You could set up some camera home security system to watch what they're doing. Cheaper than wasting days at home.


I honestly don't feel comfortable with that and it is not required by my HOA. I have a cat and dog that both free roam when I am not at home, I have nothing to hide but I don't want strangers rattling around in my home when I am away.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted by dishdude


LOL - yes this!!!

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Instead of getting into a fight, why not just give them the key so you're not there? Then set up cameras. Put your valuables away. I've been a broker for 10+ years and never had a complaint that things were stolen from a tenant's unit. I always have the keys to my 10+ units too and no one has ever complained as nothing has ever been stolen. It's a common fear though. I usually have to talk sense into them. You could set up some camera home security system to watch what they're doing. Cheaper than wasting days at home.


I honestly don't feel comfortable with that and it is not required by my HOA. I have a cat and dog that both free roam when I am not at home, I have nothing to hide but I don't want strangers rattling around in my home when I am away.


I still do the same thing even with tenants that have pets. We just make a note to close the door so they don't get away. It'd be a big lawsuit if they got away and were lost.

But as a sign once said, life is full of choices, either take your shoes off or mop the floors. So either make arrangements to leave the key or stay home. There's no compensation when vendors don't make it. Do you think you get a free appliance when the delivery men don't show up as scheduled? Same deal with pretty much every other type of vendor, gas company, telephone, cable, etc. None of them offer reimbursement when they don't show up. Sounds like you've already made your choice.

 

[pezzy669]

I honestly don't mind staying home for a vendor - my problem arises in that my HOA has a strong history of vendors just not showing up. The two instances I am referencing are the only two instances in where they had their own vendors needing access, this was not a 1 in 10 scenario, this was a 2/2 scenario of me sitting around waiting for a no show vendor. I would not be complaining if this was a 1/10 situation, the fact that I am now experiencing a 100% no show rate after 2 "scheduled" visits is why I am so livid. Meanwhile my HOA threatens us with heavy fines if their vendors cannot gain access.

 

[JHZR2]

Frankly I'd be tempted to do just as you said, and deduct the amount they threaten you with. But not before you have them document and agree that the vendor never showed.

I'd suspect they would have no grounds to fall on and would back down. If not, small claims would likely find in your favor, at least to the true actual value of your time off. It's mandatory (which I don't quite get, but OK), you made best faith efforts, they didn't show, you incurred time wasted, etc.

Of course it's ewsy to armchair quarterback.

Whats so critical to require inspection, and why can't it be scheduled versus forcing you to do it on a specific day?

 

[Lyman]

Why on earth would they need to enter your unit? I owned a Condo for many years and never had this happen.

 

[Linctex]

I thank the good Lord I don't live in an HOA.... what a hassle

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted by Blkstanger
Why on earth would they need to enter your unit? I owned a Condo for many years and never had this happen.


Fire sprinkler system and community water (water is included in my HOA dues) so they need to access all the units 2x annually to inspect the fire sprinkler system as well as the plumbing to make sure unit owners are maintaining plumbing to avoid water leaks. That is another point of contention with my HOA as all the units have submeters but we have a $125k/annual line item for water that is just split based on square footage instead of actual usage. Our management is awful.

 

[Revving2Redline]

HOA hates me. Im the Ben Shapiro/Mark Levin of ours

 

[Skippy722]

I'm so glad I changed my mind and didn't get a condo

My HOA pretty much just covers garbage pick up and what little street lights we have. I would be absolutely livid if they threatened me with a fine for their or their chosen company's ineptitude.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
I honestly don't mind staying home for a vendor - my problem arises in that my HOA has a strong history of vendors just not showing up. The two instances I am referencing are the only two instances in where they had their own vendors needing access, this was not a 1 in 10 scenario, this was a 2/2 scenario of me sitting around waiting for a no show vendor. I would not be complaining if this was a 1/10 situation, the fact that I am now experiencing a 100% no show rate after 2 "scheduled" visits is why I am so livid. Meanwhile my HOA threatens us with heavy fines if their vendors cannot gain access.


It's a nice theory but I don't think you have any grounds to stand on. Same thing happens with me, but it's not that bad a rate. You have alternatives that you're not taking advantage of. You have no signed contract with the management company where they agree to pay any kind of fine so you have no basis to collect for anything. Whereas you agreed to the fines by owning a unit in the HOA. Sorry life isn't always fair.

I schedule showings all the time and sometimes they get canceled at the last minute. Sometimes tenants stay home because they want to be then get a little mad that it didn't happen. It can be bad for me too because sometimes they cancel at the last minute and I'm there waiting for them to show up and they don't show up. Tenants never get compensation when that happens and neither do I. I do warn them that it's always a possibility though. Just the nature of the business.

Now that you know it happens, it's up to you to decide whether you still want to take time off or make other arrangements. Of course the management company isn't going to agree to your proposal so you have no basis to collect any fee.

I'm always used to vendors being unreliable, but it's so hard to get good help now, if they show up 80% of the time, that's still good enough to call them back for the next job.

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
Has anyone successfully lit up and fought their HOA on their own? If so what was your angle?
Yes, 100% success rate. My angle is NEVER live under a HOA in the first place.

 

[Mr Nice]

JHZR2,

I agree with you. But ultimately you will be Fined + All Lawyer Fees. ...ž

 

[Cujet]

Reminds me of this:

Tax assessor appraises the house at $279K and taxes accordingly.

Bank appraisal comes out at $210 and will not refinance due to a poor Loan to Value ratio.


The homeowner feels that they can't have it both ways. The house has a specific known value that varies by a maximum of about 5%.

But in reality, "ya can't win" either of them.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted by pezzy669


Has anyone successfully lit up and fought their HOA on their own? If so what was your angle? I naturally don't have the legal fund that my 3rd party HOA management company has and really my only damage I could incur is keeping this issue raised with my HOA board (I already started that dialogue).


You do not need a legal fund. People misunderstand what an HOA is.

An HOA is a Home OWNERS association.
The homeowners in your community are the HOA. The community, like any election, elected them to this position on a regular basis.
They make the rules, they hire the management company.
You have no say and no legal recourse (except for federal rights issues) because you and your community elect them to represent you.
You signed up for this when you bought the place.

This has nothing to do with the management company, if your HOA board (your neighbors) were unhappy with the management company they would relay this to the management company or simply hire a new one.

You could bring this up with your HOA (neighbors) and see if they could work out a solution to the issue, its senseless to fight the management company because you and your neighbors are the ones who hire and pay them to manage!

Its your HOA board (your neighbors) that you and your neighbors elected that you need to talk to. the other solution is to run for a position on the board next election.

I just re-read my post, yeah, sure, you can go after the management company on your own and might improve things in the future but to me, there seems that there should be a way to contact the people who are going to do the work to get an ETA on when they will arrive.

(ps, I am not an attorney so take what I say with a grain of salt, even though I know I am correct in my HOA anyway)

 

[Bud]

Fighting the HOA is normally a lost cause.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
So I am in the beginning stages of a huge dispute with the management company that my HOA has hired to mange our community and curious if it is even a battle I want to attempt.

Long story short my condo community has been severely mismanaged as for the 1+ year I have lived here. I am a commercial property manager by trade so I know how things should be when it comes to vendors and in tenant space access so I am not completely ignorant when it comes to the trade. Today will mark the 2nd day over the course of a year I have had to juggle my work schedule or take a PTO day because required repairs or inspections were needed in my unit, this will also be the 2nd time the hired vendors by my HOA for these required inspections or repairs either failed to show up all together or were rescheduled at the very last minute. Every time I get the notices from my HOA for these visits there are heavy threats of massive fines if I am not home when the service vendor needs to show up.

After the vendor no show today (when I specifically took the day off) I sent an email to the property manager indicating I would be deducting their dictated fine from my HOA dues the upcoming month. In return I was threatened with late and legal fees as I could not do that because of the unforeseen circumstances of the vendor. Seems super convenient I am threatened with a $250 flat + $92/hour fine if I am not at home but they just get off willy nilly if their vendor doesn't show.

Has anyone successfully lit up and fought their HOA on their own? If so what was your angle? I naturally don't have the legal fund that my 3rd party HOA management company has and really my only damage I could incur is keeping this issue raised with my HOA board (I already started that dialogue).


You don't have the right to withhold HOA dues. The fact that the HOA threatens you with fines if you're not there is irrelevant. You should be complaining to the members of the board. It's not the HOA's fault if the vendor doesn't show, but it IS their fault if they keep hiring the same vendor and if they don't find another vendor then the board should try to find a new mgmt company once their contract expires. Like I said you need to complain to the board.

99 percent of the time homeowners who go up against the HOA loose because they never read their CC&R's. There's some idiot in the Midwest who has been fighting his HOA for years and both parties have spent close to a combined $1MM. The dumb@--- admitted in the article that he never read the CC&R's when he bought.