Flow How: PourPoint warmer than CCV "0w" Temperature 0w20

[oil_film_movies]

How can the pour point be warmer than -35C for a 0w20 oil?
For Phillips 66 Shield Choice Syn Blend 0w20 (waxy stuff I guess), CCV is a "normal" 5400 cP. Something that won't even shear under gravity (pour) can still do 5400 cP?

 

[OVERKILL]

That's hilarious

But yeah, if it will pump, I guess its impact on CCS can be measured

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume zero PAO content with that puppy

 

[oil_film_movies]

Zero PAO, and 50% Canola Oil maybe?
I'm confused. By comparison to Pennzoil Platinum:

Phillips 0w20 -- CCS=5400, PourPoint=-34
PP 0w20 -- CCS=5670, PourPoint=-48

Pennzoil Platinum is thicker in the ASTM D5293 CCS test, yet has a colder PourPoint ? Doesn't make sense.
I doubt it's a misprint, since the other grades have a cruddy pourpoint too.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Zero PAO, and 50% Canola Oil maybe?
I'm confused. By comparison to Pennzoil Platinum:

Phillips 0w20 -- CCS=5400, PourPoint=-34
PP 0w20 -- CCS=5670, PourPoint=-48

Pennzoil Platinum is thicker in the ASTM D5293 CCS test, yet has a colder PourPoint ? Doesn't make sense.
I doubt it's a misprint, since the other grades have a cruddy pourpoint too.


I wonder if they are using a "Group II+" base as the primary?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I wonder if they are using a "Group II+" base as the primary?
Might be; those are syn-blends which could mean anything. Of course, I've never seen an all-GroupII 0w20 or 0w30.
Another comparison I can make that isn't helpful at all: Pennzoil yellow bottle 5w20 has a pour point of -42, beating this Phillips 0w20 canola oil by a mile there. Its CCS is around 10,000 @ -35 (since CCS@-30 is 5200)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I wonder if they are using a "Group II+" base as the primary?
Might be; those are syn-blends which could mean anything. Of course, I've never seen an all-GroupII 0w20 or 0w30.
Another comparison I can make that isn't helpful at all: Pennzoil yellow bottle 5w20 has a pour point of -42, beating this Phillips 0w20 canola oil by a mile there. Its CCS is around 10,000 @ -35 (since CCS@-30 is 5200)


Mobil made a bit of a deal about how they could blend a primarily Group II+ SN 5w-30 in one of their adverts, so I'd wager that CP may be doing the same. Love the Canola reference BTW

 

[Revving2Redline]

Think they have the factory oem Honda bottles at our dealership. Now I think bulk 0w20 was raised 5$ and they just went full synthetic oil

 

[Garak]

It can happen, since pumping and pouring are not the same thing. Similarly, you can have some pretty low pour points and have the oil test only to a 15w-40. It's uncommon, but I've seen it before. The Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4 has some oddball numbers, too.

 

[Shannow]

Problem is that the CCS is the big shear cranking simulator...so in theory the above IS possible.

However the pour point test drops the temp in three degree increments, until a temp is reached that the surface doesn't move when held on the side for 5seconds...I.e. pourabity...then go back to the last three degree number that it poured at and ther's your number....as the CCS is a high shear rate, the wax is dispersed, and the above can happen, especially in that three degree bracket.

Problem is that MRV is the measure of pump ability, and it,s at -40C...PLUS it cannot have a yield stress, I.e. can,t be gelled enough such that the rotor is stalled and has the break away to get the wax moving.

There,s no chance in the world that an oil that has no surface movement at -36 or 37C can ever achieve the MRV of a 0W grade

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Shannow
There,s no chance in the world that an oil that has no surface movement at -36 or 37C can ever achieve the MRV of a 0W grade
Makes one want to ban the CCS test and only allow MRV....

Interesting. Something odd happens, as said, when wax crystals disperse. That itself could explain the
Phillips 0w20 -- CCS=5400, PourPoint=-34
PP 0w20 -- CCS=5670, PourPoint=-48
....higher CCS but lower PourPoint of Platinum there.

Phillips will sit in a sump in Alaska on a -20F morning like goop, but if the pump can get to the surface of the oil, it breaks wax crystals, and upward it kinda goes.

 

[Shannow]

CCS is still relvent....

It pertains to engines being able to spin fast enough to actually start...will have to retrieve the curves that I lost which showed cranking speed and engine startability.

MRV is the ability for the oil to get back into the pump pickup when it DOES start.

The oil in question is incorectly labelled

 

[Garak]

You could be quite right. I don't have the old A3/B4 sheet in front of me to see how close things really were, and you made an important point that reminded me about the numbers in question in that specific example. Here, we're talking about a 0w-XX, not a 5w-XX. I think the Castrol's pour point was something like -36 or -37 C, which isn't ideal for a 5w-XX synthetic, but not out of the realm of possibility, given SAE J300. A 0w-XX is a different matter altogether.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Assuming low NOACK & low CCS is best, fair enough, there is the BOQI thing. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4478579/1
Phillips 0w20 is in the worst 20%, no surprise, assuming this vegetable oil has an SN-passing NOACK=14% (15% is the limit).
(Incidentally, Ravenol DFE 0w20 blows everything away, & the Eneos Street Racing SN 0w20 I use tops the old BOQI list.)

 

[Nederlander75]

0w20's the Devil.