2014-2017 Toyota Corolla CVT Quiet Recall

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https://www.greencarreports.com/new...s-greener-than-driving-an-old-one-really
Looks to be an early report, or perhaps using old data from the early 2000's, but it is stating that

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But it's here that we return to a 2000 study by M.A. Weiss et al., entitled On The Road In 2020: A life-cycle analysis of new automobile technologies.

The study reveals that fully 75 percent of a car's lifetime carbon emissions stem from the fuel it burns, not its production. A further 19 percent of that is production and transportation of the fuel, leaving just six percent for the car's manufacture.


Now, for all the CVT hatred (and I'm one of them), you have to admit: swapping a CVT every 100k is still cheaper than a new car. And if the studies were correct, then replacing a car every 200k while making sure to increase one's mpg might still be greener than running a 20 year old car into the ground.

YMMV, of course.
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I'm not aware of a CVT in a Prius? "Element" Push Belt design CVT is much different!

Correct, the Prius does NOT have a CVT -- anything like the CVTs installed in other cars. A dozen or so years ago, I stumbled on an online debate between a couple of engineering purists. The summarized conclusion seemed to be the idea that the setup in the Prius is more truly a "one-speed automatic with an infinitely variable single speed". I forget the precise logic that got them there. Anyway, functionally, it's a CVT, mechanically it's totally different from the others (the electric motor-generators are an integral part of these hybrids' transmissions) other CVTs. I find it behaves better was well, feels more proportional to me, less inclined to extremes in engine rpm than other CVTs.

Back on topic: I too am very leery of the way Toyota handles recalls. You have to be proactive. There's good in this company, like all others, but it doesn't hurt to assume that they can be trusted only as far as you can hurl a grand piano. . .
 
Mr long winded could have put all the info in first 25 seconds of video. Possibly he in a profession that pays by word.


It's a service campaign not a recall.
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I'm not aware of a CVT in a Prius? "Element" Push Belt design CVT is much different!

Correct, the Prius does NOT have a CVT -- anything like the CVTs installed in other cars. A dozen or so years ago, I stumbled on an online debate between a couple of engineering purists. The summarized conclusion seemed to be the idea that the setup in the Prius is more truly a "one-speed automatic with an infinitely variable single speed". I forget the precise logic that got them there. Anyway, functionally, it's a CVT, mechanically it's totally different from the others (the electric motor-generators are an integral part of these hybrids' transmissions) other CVTs. I find it behaves better was well, feels more proportional to me, less inclined to extremes in engine rpm than other CVTs.

IIRC it was nothing more than a differential run in reverse. All it does is take the rotation of two motors, the gasoline and the electric, and send the sum to an output shaft. Need the gasser to run but you're at a light? The electric motor spins backwards.

Extremely simple. Although recently I was corrected and apparently later models do have two gear ratios, or something to that effect, so I might be thinking only of earlier models.
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk

Back on topic: I too am very leery of the way Toyota handles recalls. You have to be proactive. There's good in this company, like all others, but it doesn't hurt to assume that they can be trusted only as far as you can hurl a grand piano. . .


Yeah a Tech Info account is a good thing to have. I found all sorts of communications when I logged in to download information for my Highlander.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Danno
Originally Posted by Chesterr
I only buy American cars assembled here ...could never bring myself to buy a Toyota but unfortunately big 3 are getting out of car business so my options are limited

A list of American cars assembled here would be interesting to see.




Assembled in the USA is just one factor. Where do all the various parts come from?

It may have changed but for years the Toyota Camry was the most American car made. Today's assembly might mean engines from Mexico, parts from Brazil or Korea and so forth.

Both Toyota and Hyundai have major manufacturing plants that provide for their assemblies. Those are just two I mention.

The Jeep Cherokee is the most American made car now. My wife has one and it has been very reliable with its 9 speed transmission that they had issues with at first. Now even the Chevy Malibu uses a CVT, FWIW so a regular tranny is getting harder to find.
 
Toyota ALWAYS does quite recall unless there is big media thing.
Their 8 speed transmissions are horrid, yet Toyota is dragging their customers through some ridiculous updates. My friend bought new Highlander last fall, and it has been in dealership more than in his garage. Car still has less than 3k, they did probably 20 software updates, everything just not to say: yeah, transmission is bad.
Why? Because it will hurt their apparent "reliability."
 
Quote
The Jeep Cherokee is the most American made car now. My wife has one and it has been very reliable with its 9 speed transmission that they had issues with at first. Now even the Chevy Malibu uses a CVT, FWIW so a regular tranny is getting harder to find.

ZF transmission. ZF is German company.
Not sure whether FCA makes those transmission, but if the do, part of profit goes to ZF (They make ZF8 for V6 applications, ZF8 for R/T and SRT etc. are all Made in Germany).
How much of Italian engineering is in JEEP is also a thing and there is more and more with every year (not necessarily bad thing).
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
What gets me is that regulations are pushing OE's to things like CVT's for marginal increases in efficiencies but then the vehicles have issues and might not last as long and all that pollution created to create the vehicle with a shorter lifespan in the first place gets displaced by an older vehicle that might be less efficient but could last on the road longer.

Sure Hondas/Toyotas from the 1990's pollute more than a modern vehicle of today but they also (IMO) lasted much longer than the models of today when looked after. Wouldn't it make more sense to tune them for efficiency without going to great lengths like Direct Injection, Turbo's, and CVT's which take away from the reliability and overall lifespan creating more pollution in the process because replacement vehicles are needed more often and creating these vehicles creates far more pollution than they would emit from their tailpipes?

I don't get why they push for better than we already have considering vehicles are virtually clean emitting with their catalysts warmed up and functioning properly.
21.gif




Why other companies do not go CVT route?
Problem for Toyota, Honda etc. is that if they wanted to keep regular automatic transmissions they would have to introduce more complex engines, and they do not have particularly good record when it comes to diesels or turbo engines. That would hurt their reliability image. So they will do everything possible (0W16 oils etc.) just so they can fit 4 banger or V6 with torque somewhere at 5,000rpms, so that average soccer mom can go to Jiffy Lube and get $19.99 oil change.

Regulations are fine. How one company approaches those regulations is another matter.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota ALWAYS does quite recall unless there is big media thing.
Their 8 speed transmissions are horrid, yet Toyota is dragging their customers through some ridiculous updates. My friend bought new Highlander last fall, and it has been in dealership more than in his garage. Car still has less than 3k, they did probably 20 software updates, everything just not to say: yeah, transmission is bad.
Why? Because it will hurt their apparent "reliability."

It's why I dumped my highlander and took a loss on it after two different Toyota dealerships told me that they had lots of complaints and they are "all like that" and after I had read about the failures with the same transmissions a year earlier. I wasn't waiting around and gambling that it wasn't going to be a problem after it was already acting up in the first few thousand kilometers of ownership.

I'll recoup the loss financed into the Caravan with the price decrease and massive discount I got on it being clear out time and having a Chrysler employee discount code from family, and the fact that I don't pay for my vehicle my work does so it will all work out over time.
 
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Originally Posted by supton
. . .
IIRC it was nothing more than a differential run in reverse. All it does is take the rotation of two motors, the gasoline and the electric, and send the sum to an output shaft. Need the gasser to run but you're at a light? The electric motor spins backwards.

Extremely simple. Although recently I was corrected and apparently later models do have two gear ratios, or something to that effect, so I might be thinking only of earlier models.

You've pretty much got the essence of it. As for the newer ones, the concept really isn't changed, but the physical manifestation has. Now, instead of one "straight through" shaft, they've split the shaft into two parallel shafts, thereby shortening the trans case by several inches. I'm still new to that design and studying the differences. The same basic concepts are all still there, but a little more cleverly packaged.
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by supton
. . .
IIRC it was nothing more than a differential run in reverse. All it does is take the rotation of two motors, the gasoline and the electric, and send the sum to an output shaft. Need the gasser to run but you're at a light? The electric motor spins backwards.

Extremely simple. Although recently I was corrected and apparently later models do have two gear ratios, or something to that effect, so I might be thinking only of earlier models.

You've pretty much got the essence of it. As for the newer ones, the concept really isn't changed, ... The same basic concepts are all still there, but a little more cleverly packaged.
Ford, as well as Toyota, uses this type "e-CVT" transmission in hybrids. It behaves in much same way as a mechanical CVT, but is entirely different mechanically. There are two motor-generators, not just one. Under direction of the computer, power can flow between battery, engine, wheels, and the motor-generators in all imaginable combinations, as needed to provide appropriate ratio and torque for the circumstances. The single planetary gear-set at the center of it all follows the same simple algebraic rules as every other planetary gear-set. Thus, if you know any two of road speed, engine speed and sun gear speed (which is same as speed of one of the two motors), you can calculate the speed of the third one of those from gear tooth counts. There are no brakes, clutches, synchronizers, belts, or any other kind of friction surface to wear out.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota ALWAYS does quite recall unless there is big media thing.
Their 8 speed transmissions are horrid, yet Toyota is dragging their customers through some ridiculous updates. My friend bought new Highlander last fall, and it has been in dealership more than in his garage. Car still has less than 3k, they did probably 20 software updates, everything just not to say: yeah, transmission is bad.
Why? Because it will hurt their apparent "reliability."

It's why I dumped my highlander and took a loss on it after two different Toyota dealerships told me that they had lots of complaints and they are "all like that" and after I had read about the failures with the same transmissions a year earlier. I wasn't waiting around and gambling that it wasn't going to be a problem after it was already acting up in the first few thousand kilometers of ownership.

I'll recoup the loss financed into the Caravan with the price decrease and massive discount I got on it being clear out time and having a Chrysler employee discount code from family, and the fact that I don't pay for my vehicle my work does so it will all work out over time.

Best thing was that they offered my friend trade in. He refused. I am wondering if he entered negotiations would they say: well, we cannot give you more than xxxx amount, you have bad transmission
smile.gif
 
I should have bought the 4-Runner but I went with the Highlander because my spouse like the entertainment centre better and I kind of liked the styling on the Highlander a smidge better than the 4-Runner.

Oh well.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I should have bought the 4-Runner but I went with the Highlander because my spouse like the entertainment centre better and I kind of liked the styling on the Highlander a smidge better than the 4-Runner.

Oh well.

What brand of transmission was it ?
 
Originally Posted by Kjmack
Originally Posted by StevieC
I should have bought the 4-Runner but I went with the Highlander because my spouse like the entertainment centre better and I kind of liked the styling on the Highlander a smidge better than the 4-Runner.

Oh well.

What brand of transmission was it ?

It is Aisin (Toyota).
And it is uniquely Toyota issue, although same transmission is used in VW, BMW and some other vehicles.
 
Seems to me we are at the point in time when any transmission other than a CVT or a 8/9 speed tranny should be referred to as an old school tranny.
 
So just like Nissan CVT - they are just not durable transmissions. Color me surprised. Everyone thought they would be fabulous because they came in a Toyota wrapper - yup seems they are not any better in a Toyota wrapper.
 
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I'm not aware of a CVT in a Prius? "Element" Push Belt design CVT is much different!

Correct, the Prius does NOT have a CVT -- anything like the CVTs installed in other cars. A dozen or so years ago, I stumbled on an online debate between a couple of engineering purists. The summarized conclusion seemed to be the idea that the setup in the Prius is more truly a "one-speed automatic with an infinitely variable single speed". I forget the precise logic that got them there. Anyway, functionally, it's a CVT, mechanically it's totally different from the others (the electric motor-generators are an integral part of these hybrids' transmissions) other CVTs. I find it behaves better was well, feels more proportional to me, less inclined to extremes in engine rpm than other CVTs.

IIRC it was nothing more than a differential run in reverse. All it does is take the rotation of two motors, the gasoline and the electric, and send the sum to an output shaft. Need the gasser to run but you're at a light? The electric motor spins backwards.

Extremely simple. Although recently I was corrected and apparently later models do have two gear ratios, or something to that effect, so I might be thinking only of earlier models.


Jay Lenos Garage had an episode with a new Koenigsegg (spelling?) supercar with a transmission like that. Basically just a differential with an electric motor. I guess first of its kind used in a super car application. It was pretty cool to hear the developer talk about how it worked.
 
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