Customer declined new belt

[thooks]

The serp belt for a Toyota 5.7L V8 in a Tundra, Sequoia or Land Cruiser is about $95 at a dealer for OEM. I paid about $42 for a Dayco belt, and another $110 for a Gates tensioner and pulley.

It took me about 2 hours, yes 2 hours to do the job. It's a bear of a learning curve on the first one, but I expect to do the Tundra (I have a Sequoia also) in less than 30 minutes.

I suspect most serp belts these days aren't very simple to get to. Certainly not "3 minutes." There's so much crap on the front of the engines today, coupled with huge heads on OHC engines with VVT....

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by thooks
It took me about 2 hours, yes 2 hours to do the job. It's a bear of a learning curve on the first one, but I expect to do the Tundra (I have a Sequoia also) in less than 30 minutes.

I took a look at doing the pair of belts on my wife's Camry, and decided I'd let a shop do it. Crammed in there, not with one but two belts... no thanks. Maybe it'd be easier the second time around, I dunno.

I don't think it was too bad on my Tundra, no walk in the park but not too bad. Hardest part was fighting with the tensioner--it refused to move--apparently that is to be expected when you remove all but one bolt.

 

[KE7JFF]

As an actual tow truck tech for AAA I do see lots of broken belts, but what's interesting is that a lot of times it's caused by a bad pulley wheel...

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by KE7JFF
As an actual tow truck tech for AAA I do see lots of broken belts, but what's interesting is that a lot of times it's caused by a bad pulley wheel...


You would be right on that count. Everyone knows that if something comes in here with a busted belt, it doesn't get changed until one knows WHY it is busted.

Not a guarantee that there was a cause other than a bad belt, but way too many times it is.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by Dave9
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by hatt
Toyota quoted my brother $180 to change the belt in his 4runner.

Why do people continually point out how much shops or dealers charge to do repair work ? Aren't their service bays generally full and busy ? I'll bet they replace a serpentine belt every day for that price too and 90% of customers don't look up the price on RockAuto (or even know what RA is) and watch a YouTube video on how to replace it. Why ? Because they have no desire whatsoever to do that kind of work. Or they don't have tools. Or they don't feel comfortable doing it or even attempting it.


Why is because it's not only a ripoff, it's also potentially fraudulent to charge for more labor than it takes to do the work. There are ways around that like only billing to the half hour or hour, and then there is the dishonesty of charging more for the part than it can be bought anywhere else.

People continually point it out because shops essentially take advantage of the naive and lazy. They perform an important, even vital service for society, but not all repairs should cost a premium. Certainly some belts take a fair amount of work to replace and the bill should reflect that, but when you know better, yeah it is something that should be continually pointed out, that if those people who don't want to DIY want to pay, they aren't the people browsing this forum and reading this topic!

Here's a better question: What's it to you? Why do you want to censor other people? They shouldn't have and express their own thoughts?

The industry standard is to use flat-rate labor guides for determining the labor charges for a specific job. Some jobs take longer than the published labor time, others take less. It is very rare for a shop to charge less than "book time" for a job.

Also, if you go to a restaurant and order a can of coke there is usually a significant markup. The practice is no different with an auto repair establishment.


Exactly. People have no issue at all jamming up bars and restaurants paying 1000% markup on food and drink, but will rail in shops for a 15-35% markup.

 

[brages]

On my car (Volvo S40), it's not unheard of for a broken serpentine belt to jam up in the timing belt and cause severe engine damage...

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by MrMoody
Originally Posted by bbhero
I understand if the "book" says it should take 3.5 hours to change the brake pads on all 4 wheels of my car... And yet in reality it takes much less time than that... But I understand that's where margin is at and is needed for all of the above mentioned things that have to be paid for. I'm ok with that.

Where a place like Ken Houtz of my hometown lost me aka got my poed big-time... Was saying $700 to replace a water pump on a 2001 Pontiac Sunfire...

These two statements are actually related. If a shop can make good money all day on multiple easy brake jobs, why would they want to tie up a bay for a couple of hours plus on something difficult? Not to mention greater risk on warranty comebacks, etc. They wouldn't, so they overquote you to get rid of you. On the off chance you take it, now they're making the high profit they would on 4 quick brake jobs. I've had a shop owner actually tell me this.

Some shops are honest enough to simply tell you they don't want to do your repair. Around here only hungry shops and overpriced dealers do any major work, and it will be quoted high.



A shop can actually make more money doing major repairs, The problem lies in the staff/mechanics being inexperienced in performing Engine & Transmission repair.






Bingo. You handle some big job for a customer, they aren't taking their brake and small problems elsewhere anyway.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by mattd
Clinebarger is 100% correct. There is FAR more profit on a major repair than small PM items.



Certainly true....

But how many people nowadays want to pay big $$$ for major engine/transmission repairs??

I'd say some but not all that many at all... We have become a throw away society. Vehicles included.

And again I understand if the book says x amount of time. Yet it actually takes less time in reality. I am good with that.

The morons at the dealership where my lady's car was taken to can go procreate themselves as far has I'm concerned. That was just stupid on their part.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by mattd
Clinebarger is 100% correct. There is FAR more profit on a major repair than small PM items.



Certainly true....

But how many people nowadays want to pay big $$$ for major engine/transmission repairs??

I'd say some but not all that many at all... We have become a throw away society. Vehicles included.

And again I understand if the book says x amount of time. Yet it actually takes less time in reality. I am good with that.

The morons at the dealership where my lady's car was taken to can go procreate themselves as far has I'm concerned. That was just stupid on their part.



I haven't seen a week without backlog for major repairs since opening the doors for business. I inherited a backlog when I opened up. I receive at least 3 threats or other aggressive behavior a week attempting to force me to schedule a major repair faster than available. I have guys whose only job it is to go onsite to keep the little stuff from ever coming near my warehouse. My transmission vendors are all backed up.

Granted, most of what I do is commercial, but there's a lot more private vehicles out there than commercial rigs.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by mattd
Clinebarger is 100% correct. There is FAR more profit on a major repair than small PM items.



Certainly true....

But how many people nowadays want to pay big $$$ for major engine/transmission repairs??

I'd say some but not all that many at all... We have become a throw away society. Vehicles included.

And again I understand if the book says x amount of time. Yet it actually takes less time in reality. I am good with that.

The morons at the dealership where my lady's car was taken to can go procreate themselves as far has I'm concerned. That was just stupid on their part.



When it comes to Joe-Consumer sedan driver....You are 100% correct! But there are some situations where people will spend the money.....

*Up-scale Pick-up trucks & Large SUV's, They're expensive to replace, A $3,000 repair is equal to the Mark-Up you'll pay on a used one & the Sales Tax alone on a new one.
*Specialty Commercial/Municipal vehicles.....Like a Boom-Service/Lift/Sweeper trucks, These are $100,000 dollar vehicles & they're going to get repaired unless it cost more than fitting a new one.
*Collector/Classic/Sentimental/Competition/Pony/Sports/Off-Road/Exotic vehicles......Most shops steer clear of these, In my experience....The vast majority of these folks will gladly pay top-dollar for quality workmanship!

Also.....Book times vary wildly from Manufacturer to Manufacturer, Chrysler/FCA doesn't want a Mechanic to EVER break 100% efficiency! They cut book times to the bone & then some........Toyota/Lexus is on the other end of the spectrum.

 

[bbhero]

I think it is regional in nature though....

Areas where people who have businesses and the needed then yes it will be different. In other areas it really is just regular Joe schmoe going to get their vehicle repaired... Nothing extravagant.

I live in a area now where it certainly is possible for people to have serious work done... For their business or for their own pleasure. These people have the $$$ to actually do that.

But where my hometown is... Not really the case there.

 

[bbhero]

One thing I must say is how much I respect what you fellas do... It is really something.

And the interesting thing is the learning and thinking process is quite similar to what I do... Shockingly so in fact at times.. That is why I like being on here. Learning how to think and how to process certain things.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp


I haven't seen a week without backlog for major repairs since opening the doors for business. I inherited a backlog when I opened up. I receive at least 3 threats or other aggressive behavior a week attempting to force me to schedule a major repair faster than available. I have guys whose only job it is to go onsite to keep the little stuff from ever coming near my warehouse. My transmission vendors are all backed up.

Granted, most of what I do is commercial, but there's a lot more private vehicles out there than commercial rigs.


We must have been typing at the same time......

I love how people expect everything Right Now! "Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine". Just today we had a customer with a 2003 Lincoln Town Car throw a fit because we took to long too diagnose his bad rear wheel bearing & threw an even bigger fit when we wouldn't install a Offset Repair Bearing to save the chewed up axle with a warranty.

We don't warrant customer requested Band-Aid Hack repairs Sir......

 

[DoubleWasp]

I'm guessing being in similar fields, we have the same issues to say the least.

Honestly, it doesn't even bother me anymore. It's actually almost hilarious. I have one guy who threatens me every single time. Like clockwork. First he's going to send people to see if we're really as busy as I say we are. Then once his stuff is here, his business partner "wants to come see what is going on". Then his lawyer wants to get involved, but he's trying to hold the lawyer back. Last time I told him I'd built a small apartment so his lawyer, his wife, his business partners, and some random can spend the night and keep a watch on his truck.

It's a little disturbing how much this doesn't bother me. I keep asking myself why I don't get mad. But his money is good, so whatever.

I think it's because I sympathize. I know how much per day it costs to have equipment down, and someone trying to shaft you is just daily business in SFL so it's like living in some sort of weird sci-fi warrior-caste civilization where it's just custom to talk in threats. (Yes, I'm a nerd)

I've always said that a former probation officer, drug counselor, foster parent, or hostage negotiator would be a perfect fit for this business.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by thooks
Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by hatt
Toyota quoted my brother $180 to change the belt in his 4runner.

Why do people continually point out how much shops or dealers charge to do repair work ? Aren't their service bays generally full and busy ? I'll bet they replace a serpentine belt every day for that price too and 90% of customers don't look up the price on RockAuto (or even know what RA is) and watch a YouTube video on how to replace it. Why ? Because they have no desire whatsoever to do that kind of work. Or they don't have tools. Or they don't feel comfortable doing it or even attempting it.

Because stealerships will scam you. How are they justifying $150 in labor to change this belt on this vehicle? The vehicle was also already in their shop having some maintenance items performed. It kinda goes along with this thread but I'd bet the OP would be getting beat up a little had he quoted $150 in labor.



A dealership isn't scamming anyone. I can walk into the Service/Parts department at the Toyota dealership (any of them) and see their waiting room slammed and every service writer busy with others. People are LINING UP and WAITING for the DEALERS to work on their cars and perform extremely simple, mundane tasks because they don't want to be bothered with that nasty, dirty, greasy job. Plus, they don't own anything that might resemble anything called a tool, their garage is to park their car in and it is either [censored] and span clean or full of boxes of crap that hasn't seen the light of day in 10+ years.

If you take your vehicle to a service garage, you have a choice of discussing pricing with them. If you feel it's too high, you can go somewhere else or do it yourself.


+1, Although I suspect much of that work is under warranty. In any case dealerships have big overhead, in addition to getting up-charged on the "genuine" part, and are expected to turn a profit for their owners (Remember dealerships are independent franchises).

 

[A1O]

I work at an independent shop and we do take customer parts in for repairs. We also do big jobs like motor replacement and transmission replacement. As an Independent shop you have to. We have 7 other chain and independent shops within 3 miles of each other. Competition is fierce and oil changes and tires dont pay the Bill's. We have 1 diag guy and me the service mgr and tech. Got 2 oil change and tire guys. And 2 parts hangers. We can usually do a brake job for about 250 to 300 using top of the line napa aod pads and coated rotors. We use alldata for labor times and sometimes they are generous and sometimes you get screwed. Our biggest problem is finding good help.

 

[MrMoody]

A coworker just got quoted $309 at a tire dealer for 1 axle pads and turning the rotors on a Civic. He got p.o.ed and turned them down.