Sludge and Facebook's infinite wisdom

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Originally Posted by Railrust
Pennzoil has a bad reputation with some of the old timers, I've seen it on other car forums. The old..."sludge and wax". Lol.

I'd say over the past ten years Pennzoil Platinum has been one of the most popular oils on the market, with the Pennzoil Ultra almost achieving unicorn status.



Yeah, and I have used tons of QSGB just like member Garak has and I've never noticed any sludge. Hmmmm
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
Pennzoil has a bad reputation with some of the old timers, I've seen it on other car forums. The old..."sludge and wax". Lol.

I'd say over the past ten years Pennzoil Platinum has been one of the most popular oils on the market, with the Pennzoil Ultra almost achieving unicorn status.



This reputation is because it has always been one of if not the most popular motor oils in the United States year in year out. Castrol GTX has the same reputation with old timers in Canada for the same reason.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
Pennzoil has a bad reputation with some of the old timers, I've seen it on other car forums. The old..."sludge and wax". Lol.

I'd say over the past ten years Pennzoil Platinum has been one of the most popular oils on the market, with the Pennzoil Ultra almost achieving unicorn status.

I would be willing to bet that "back in the old days" Pennzoil actually wasn't a very good motor oil. But thats been 30+ years ago at least.
 
I too, avoid social media. For many reasons, and among these reasons are the wildfire-like spread of misinformation and parroting of falsehoods.

Also I better go drain out the Pennzoil HM 5w-20 I have in the Freestyle, it's bound to turn my engine into a lump of beeswax any minute now. It'll never hit 300k with that waxy line flush garbage in the pan!!!
smile.gif


(It currently has 297k)

I like what I like, but when I can get Pennzoil for $4.50 per jug, I'll use it and not lose a minute of sleep.
 
AND I just led my dad to a jug of Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20 for his ‘15 Outlander Sport at Walmart for like $13. I'm such an idiot.

*bangs head on keyboard*
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by Railrust
Pennzoil has a bad reputation with some of the old timers, I've seen it on other car forums. The old..."sludge and wax". Lol.

I'd say over the past ten years Pennzoil Platinum has been one of the most popular oils on the market, with the Pennzoil Ultra almost achieving unicorn status.



Yeah, and I have used tons of QSGB just like member Garak has and I've never noticed any sludge. Hmmmm

Yeah and I use Pennzoil, so hopefully I'm safe. Lol

Honestly, is there any oil that sludges nowadays? The only sludge I've seen is from neglect or an engine that overheated because of cooling system problems.
 
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I would be willing to bet that "back in the old days" Pennzoil actually wasn't a very good motor oil. But thats been 30+ years ago at least.
I would agree. I had a 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport with a 351C that had 3K or less OCIs during its life with Quaker State Deluxe 10W-30. At 126K the valve covers were pulled and there was a 1/2" (at least) of sludge built up on every surface.

Carburetors did not help as did the lower temperature thermostats (160°F). Combine that with the lower quality oils of the day gave you the perfect recipe for sludge.
 
I suspect there was some basis in reality. I used QS 10W-40 a couple of changes in the '80s, and did indeed get more sludge than with most brands. I was warned that would happen, but didn't believe the warning until I saw for myself.
Never tried any Pennzoil back then.
 
Originally Posted by CR94
I suspect there was some basis in reality. I used QS 10W-40 a couple of changes in the '80s, and did indeed get more sludge than with most brands. I was warned that would happen, but didn't believe the warning until I saw for myself.
Never tried any Pennzoil back then.

how do you know that with a couple of oil changes you saw more sludge? Did you disassemble your motor before and after and measure it?
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
. . .
Honestly, is there any oil that sludges nowadays? The only sludge I've seen is from neglect or an engine that overheated because of cooling system problems.

Yes, they ALL will sludge up, even a good modern "synthetic". Every single oil out there has a limit in a given application. Our responsibility as reasonable owners and maintainers is to NOT find that limit. Don't let your guard down! I know, here of all places, I'm "preachin' to the choir..."
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
Honestly, is there any oil that sludges nowadays? The only sludge I've seen is from neglect or an engine that overheated because of cooling system problems.

Honda VCM V6s back when they were recommending 5W-20. Many were following the oil-life monitor using API SM 5W-20 and finding drivability issues from the sludge. Looked like this:


[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I would be willing to bet that "back in the old days" Pennzoil actually wasn't a very good motor oil. But thats been 30+ years ago at least.
I would agree. I had a 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport with a 351C that had 3K or less OCIs during its life with Quaker State Deluxe 10W-30. At 126K the valve covers were pulled and there was a 1/2" (at least) of sludge built up on every surface.

Carburetors did not help as did the lower temperature thermostats (160°F). Combine that with the lower quality oils of the day gave you the perfect recipe for sludge.

Was it short tripped? Back in the 60's and 70's we car buffs preferred QS or Pennzoil because they were supposed to be made with Pennsylvania crude. It was not supposed to have as much wax in it. Esso had a terrible reputation for "waxing" up engines.
 
Originally Posted by loneryder
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I would be willing to bet that "back in the old days" Pennzoil actually wasn't a very good motor oil. But thats been 30+ years ago at least.
I would agree. I had a 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport with a 351C that had 3K or less OCIs during its life with Quaker State Deluxe 10W-30. At 126K the valve covers were pulled and there was a 1/2" (at least) of sludge built up on every surface.

Carburetors did not help as did the lower temperature thermostats (160°F). Combine that with the lower quality oils of the day gave you the perfect recipe for sludge.

Was it short tripped? Back in the 60's and 70's we car buffs preferred QS or Pennzoil because they were supposed to be made with Pennsylvania crude. It was not supposed to have as much wax in it. Esso had a terrible reputation for "waxing" up engines.
It saw all manner of driving conditions. In the early 80's I spent a lot of time crawling through junkyards of 1960's and early 1970's cars and far more often than not the engines had sludge in them. It was simply that era and typically did not matter what make engine or oil that was used. With very few exceptions, every junkyard engine I opened up had a super thick layer of creamy sludge in them.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
. . .It saw all manner of driving conditions. In the early 80's I spent a lot of time crawling through junkyards of 1960's and early 1970's cars and far more often than not the engines had sludge in them. It was simply that era and typically did not matter what make engine or oil that was used. With very few exceptions, every junkyard engine I opened up had a super thick layer of creamy sludge in them.

We really have become super spoiled by how good the technology of cars has become (all our present little complaints acknowledged). I started tinkering with cars in the mid-70s, and the "thick layer of creamy sludge" picture reminds me of several I saw, including my parents' 73 Dodge. In those days, the cars had sloppy carburetors, feeding leaded fuel (till mid 70s) into crudely machined (by our standards) engines, lubricated with mostly Gr I and II based oils. Surely, some oils were better than others, but none of them really stood a chance unless the owner was incredibly meticulous in doing 2-3k OCIs and doing all maintenance (actual tune-ups, not the name-only kind of today, and so on) required on the engine. It's no surprise that you'd see all that sludge in the junk yards -- it was just the way things were.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by Railrust
Honestly, is there any oil that sludges nowadays? The only sludge I've seen is from neglect or an engine that overheated because of cooling system problems.

Honda VCM V6s back when they were recommending 5W-20. Many were following the oil-life monitor using API SM 5W-20 and finding drivability issues from the sludge. Looked like this:


[Linked Image]



I don't necessarily think that was all due to VCM. My 2008 (Non-VCM) is a lot dirtier (I would say similar to your picture) than my 03 Accord that had better oil, shorter changes (From 5000-7500 miles). I think most of that problem was down to extended drains. The dude I bought my Acura from took the OLM as a suggestion and probably stretched his changes out quite a bit. Since I've had it I've been running it down to 40% and each time that has given me 5000 miles on the change, so he was probably going 10k on them. A bit of a stretch for whatever cheap oil change he was using and it shows. The top end is much dirtier, but it hasn't had any effect that I can see. It still doesn't use oil, runs smooth, pulls hard, etc. For reference here's my 03 J30A4 on an assortment of oils, filters, and OCI's.

I wish I'd snapped some pictures of the 08 when I had it apart for the valve adjustments, but I was working against a time crunch and didn't take any.

[Linked Image]
 
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Originally Posted by dwendt44
Neither Pennzoil or Quaker State uses much if any Pennsylvania crude these days.


My 2¢

I remember reading a fairly recent post by someone who swore off Quaker State because of sludging that happened 30 years ago. It didn't seem to matter that in the meantime that Pennzoil merged with QS, Pennzoil tried to buy Getty Oil, then sued and won over Texaco, that Royal Dutch Shell bought Pennzoil, that there was the Texaco/Shell joint venture (Equilon) that started making similar motor oils, and that eventually Quaker State is just a brand for motor oils developed by Shell/Infinieum.
 
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by CR94
I suspect there was some basis in reality. I used QS 10W-40 a couple of changes in the '80s, and did indeed get more sludge than with most brands. ...

how do you know that with a couple of oil changes you saw more sludge? Did you disassemble your motor before and after and measure it?
No measuring, just looking under the valve cover. Usually there was no sludge. I never saw sludge with any oil in the Mazda engine after about 2002.
 
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