Ride quality between 45 and 35 sidewall

[bowlofturtle]

A friend asked me to help sell his wheels on my local forums.

So naturally, i installed them to show what it would look like on my car, since its a specific car forum.

My car is already lowered and riding a bit firmer than most cars on par with sport suspension cars. I'm normally running 215/55/17 for the winter and 235/45/18 for the summer. Both have no issues and the overall car has a decent feel going over bumps and stuff. But the tires on my friend's wheels were 245/35/19. Driving around and wow, huge difference. I dont know if that was the normal tire sizing or he just got what was cheap. But these low profile tires stink, they feel bad and always look like on pressure.

Anyone have the same situation? Or could it be just the these Dunlop tires. I dont recall what they were, Dunlop D something.

I'm taking them off next week and hopefully it sells.

 

[Propflux01]

Barely a sidewall, and what is there has to be stiff to take the weight, only natural it will be rough.

 

[das_peikko]

Once you get under a 70 series, the ride gets worse from there. 35 and 45 series is basically just a layer of skin on the rims.

 

[Wolf359]

Low profile tires are just a stupid way to get bent/cracked rims and flat tires.

Mainly done just for looks. Riding horrible is normal. Now you know what people do for looks. While lowering can improve handing, cars that are stock handle pretty well and you're not on a racetrack so most people don't even use the handling the car is capable of so there's no need to lower to try to improve it. Most of the time when you see someone who's car is really lowered, they're driving slow so they don't hit potholes and damage the body/suspension. Never could figure that one out, make a modification so you can drive extra slow.

 

[555]

Along with the other comments here, don't forget that the wheel may be significantly heavier as well as the tire.

 

[SteveSRT8]

My sig car is a full size 4 door sedan that shipped with 245/45/20 all season tires on it. I switched to 275/35/20 in order to use a summer tire.


Result? BETTER ride than stock. Very noticeable improvements in steering precision, etc. The results you get are just as dependent on the tire as the profile.

 

[CharBaby]

Right!
When it comes to 35 series & 45 series tires, the difference in ride quality is between the tire that sucks and the tire that sucks less.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by bowlofturtle
A friend asked me to help sell his wheels on my local forums.

So naturally, i installed them to show what it would look like on my car, since its a specific car forum.

My car is already lowered and riding a bit firmer than most cars on par with sport suspension cars. I'm normally running 215/55/17 for the winter and 235/45/18 for the summer. Both have no issues and the overall car has a decent feel going over bumps and stuff. But the tires on my friend's wheels were 245/35/19. Driving around and wow, huge difference. I dont know if that was the normal tire sizing or he just got what was cheap. But these low profile tires stink, they feel bad and always look like on pressure.

Anyone have the same situation? Or could it be just the these Dunlop tires. I dont recall what they were, Dunlop D something.

I'm taking them off next week and hopefully it sells.


Well the sidewall on your friends tires are 8.57cm tall whereas yours are 10.57cm. The extra 2cm makes a difference. If your friend had 305/35/19 they'd ride about the same as your 235/45/18. Another factor is the weight of the rims and how the suspension is tuned.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Low profile tires are just a stupid way to get bent/cracked rims and flat tires.

Mainly done just for looks. Riding horrible is normal. Now you know what people do for looks. While lowering can improve handing, cars that are stock handle pretty well and you're not on a racetrack so most people don't even use the handling the car is capable of so there's no need to lower to try to improve it. Most of the time when you see someone who's car is really lowered, they're driving slow so they don't hit potholes and damage the body/suspension. Never could figure that one out, make a modification so you can drive extra slow.



ROFL..uh no.

#1 Low profile tires allow the use of wider tires which provide more grip used for handling and acceleration.
#2 Low profile tires are multiples more responsive than taller tires because there's less flex in the sidewall.
#3 Suspension tuning has a lot to do with how well a car rides on low profile tires.

Yes many do it primarily for looks.

Of course if you have to drive on garbage roads because salt/plowing/ice chew them up that's another issue separate of tire choice.

 

[Ws6]

A friend of mine keeps wrecking rims on his Civic Type R on pot-holes around Atlanta, I believe it is. Gone through several already. Ultra-low-pro side-walls are stupid.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by Char Baby
Right!
When it comes to 35 series & 45 series tires, the difference in ride quality is between the tire that sucks and the tire that sucks less.

Many people talk about sidewall profile as if that alone determined sidewall height, which obviously it does not. There is a notable difference between a 205/45 tire vs a 255/45 tire when it comes to sidewall height and comfort.

The particular tire model and its sidewall design also does make a difference, as SteveSRT8 mentioned.

I use 235/45 tires during summer on my 530i, and there is absolutely no issue with comfort, provided that roads in your area are in generally good condition. Granted, comfort is a relative term.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Low profile tires are just a stupid way to get bent/cracked rims and flat tires.

Mainly done just for looks. Riding horrible is normal. Now you know what people do for looks.... Most of the time when you see someone who's car is really lowered, they're driving slow so they don't hit potholes and damage the body/suspension. Never could figure that one out, make a modification so you can drive extra slow.

LOL, that's why they also get loud exhausts, so it seems they're going extra fast

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

ROFL..uh no.

#1 Low profile tires allow the use of wider tires which provide more grip used for handling and acceleration.
#2 Low profile tires are multiples more responsive than taller tires because there's less flex in the sidewall.
#3 Suspension tuning has a lot to do with how well a car rides on low profile tires.

Yes many do it primarily for looks.

Of course if you have to drive on garbage roads because salt/plowing/ice chew them up that's another issue separate of tire choice.


#1 Handling and grip for acceleration is pointless when you're stuck in bumper to bumper traffic going 15-20mph. More grip for what? Plus wider tires will make you float in rain/snow.
#2 More responsive for what? Most people can't even handle the handling that comes stock.
#3 There's only so much you can do with the suspension when you lower it, there's just not as much suspension travel and most people who do it aren't engineers so they certainly didn't do the engineering analysis that the factory does.

The fact of the matter is that many roads in this country are garbage so the fools who love the look end up forcing those who don't like it with the look. It does look like some manufacturers were coming to their senses as I'm sure there were too many people who complained about flat tires and bent/cracked rims. Maybe the other reason manufacturers liked it was because it kept their service shops busy.

Sorry, I probably sound like an old man yelling at the clouds.... (Just had to buy two more 18 inch rims for cracks in my Mercedes)

 

[CapriRacer]

Adding more fuel to the fire:

The difference between tires - meaning make and model - so LARGER than the difference in tire size.

So there will be situations where a 35 series tire rides better than a comparable 45 series tire.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

ROFL..uh no.

#1 Low profile tires allow the use of wider tires which provide more grip used for handling and acceleration.
#2 Low profile tires are multiples more responsive than taller tires because there's less flex in the sidewall.
#3 Suspension tuning has a lot to do with how well a car rides on low profile tires.

Yes many do it primarily for looks.

Of course if you have to drive on garbage roads because salt/plowing/ice chew them up that's another issue separate of tire choice.


#1 Handling and grip for acceleration is pointless when you're stuck in bumper to bumper traffic going 15-20mph. More grip for what? Plus wider tires will make you float in rain/snow.
#2 More responsive for what? Most people can't even handle the handling that comes stock.
#3 There's only so much you can do with the suspension when you lower it, there's just not as much suspension travel and most people who do it aren't engineers so they certainly didn't do the engineering analysis that the factory does.

The fact of the matter is that many roads in this country are garbage so the fools who love the look end up forcing those who don't like it with the look. It does look like some manufacturers were coming to their senses as I'm sure there were too many people who complained about flat tires and bent/cracked rims. Maybe the other reason manufacturers liked it was because it kept their service shops busy.

Sorry, I probably sound like an old man yelling at the clouds.... (Just had to buy two more 18 inch rims for cracks in my Mercedes)



#1 When your vehicle is pushing over 100hp/liter you'll want better grip and handling for those times you're not stuck in rush hour traffic. Wider tires do NOT make you float in rain. That's just silly. Wider tires improve braking as well !!!
#2 Responsiveness is irrespective of need.
#3 So what. Outside of factory calibrated suspension for factory low profile tires what does it matter what "most people" do? A properly tuned suspension can remove a lot of the harshness from low profile tires.

The fact of the matter is that low profile tires not only provide better grip for handling, acceleration, and braking they also provide room for larger brakes which in almost all cases means better brakes. Sounds like your crying over the fact that you're not the target market of a vehicle you'd like to own save for the low profile tires. Cry me a river. Buy something else or move to a place with better roads.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

ROFL..uh no.

#1 Low profile tires allow the use of wider tires which provide more grip used for handling and acceleration.
#2 Low profile tires are multiples more responsive than taller tires because there's less flex in the sidewall.
#3 Suspension tuning has a lot to do with how well a car rides on low profile tires.

Yes many do it primarily for looks.

Of course if you have to drive on garbage roads because salt/plowing/ice chew them up that's another issue separate of tire choice.


#1 Handling and grip for acceleration is pointless when you're stuck in bumper to bumper traffic going 15-20mph. More grip for what? Plus wider tires will make you float in rain/snow.
#2 More responsive for what? Most people can't even handle the handling that comes stock.
#3 There's only so much you can do with the suspension when you lower it, there's just not as much suspension travel and most people who do it aren't engineers so they certainly didn't do the engineering analysis that the factory does.

The fact of the matter is that many roads in this country are garbage so the fools who love the look end up forcing those who don't like it with the look. It does look like some manufacturers were coming to their senses as I'm sure there were too many people who complained about flat tires and bent/cracked rims. Maybe the other reason manufacturers liked it was because it kept their service shops busy.

Sorry, I probably sound like an old man yelling at the clouds.... (Just had to buy two more 18 inch rims for cracks in my Mercedes)



#1 When your vehicle is pushing over 100hp/liter you'll want better grip and handling for those times you're not stuck in rush hour traffic. Wider tires do NOT make you float in rain. That's just silly. Wider tires improve braking as well !!!
#2 Responsiveness is irrespective of need.
#3 So what. Outside of factory calibrated suspension for factory low profile tires what does it matter what "most people" do? A properly tuned suspension can remove a lot of the harshness from low profile tires.

The fact of the matter is that low profile tires not only provide better grip for handling, acceleration, and braking they also provide room for larger brakes which in almost all cases means better brakes. Sounds like your crying over the fact that you're not the target market of a vehicle you'd like to own save for the low profile tires. Cry me a river. Buy something else or move to a place with better roads.


There are very few times when you need better grip and handling on the public roads driving at legal speeds. You need to drive to the condition of the roads. If you really do need them, you should probably be on the track.

Better brakes are meaningless when you can easily cause them to lock up. Once you're at the maximum of static friction, you transition over kinetic friction which is the point of ABS. Then it's just up to the tires. Wider tires mean you're more likely to hydroplane in the rain but you get better braking in the dry. It's a compromise. You are just adjusting for better braking in dry for worse performance in the rain/snow. You can't have both.

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/tire-talk/hydroplaning

Tires are basically a trade off in terms of the various compromises that are made. As for it being properly tuned, that's probably one of those things where it's more of a theory than reality as most people doing it for looks have no clue about the engineering. Good luck trying to convince an engineer that the trade offs are worth it. It basically boils down to looks. From a cost and daily driving perspective, they're a waste of money.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

ROFL..uh no.

#1 Low profile tires allow the use of wider tires which provide more grip used for handling and acceleration.
#2 Low profile tires are multiples more responsive than taller tires because there's less flex in the sidewall.
#3 Suspension tuning has a lot to do with how well a car rides on low profile tires.

Yes many do it primarily for looks.

Of course if you have to drive on garbage roads because salt/plowing/ice chew them up that's another issue separate of tire choice.


#1 Handling and grip for acceleration is pointless when you're stuck in bumper to bumper traffic going 15-20mph. More grip for what? Plus wider tires will make you float in rain/snow.
#2 More responsive for what? Most people can't even handle the handling that comes stock.
#3 There's only so much you can do with the suspension when you lower it, there's just not as much suspension travel and most people who do it aren't engineers so they certainly didn't do the engineering analysis that the factory does.

The fact of the matter is that many roads in this country are garbage so the fools who love the look end up forcing those who don't like it with the look. It does look like some manufacturers were coming to their senses as I'm sure there were too many people who complained about flat tires and bent/cracked rims. Maybe the other reason manufacturers liked it was because it kept their service shops busy.

Sorry, I probably sound like an old man yelling at the clouds.... (Just had to buy two more 18 inch rims for cracks in my Mercedes)



#1 When your vehicle is pushing over 100hp/liter you'll want better grip and handling for those times you're not stuck in rush hour traffic. Wider tires do NOT make you float in rain. That's just silly. Wider tires improve braking as well !!!
#2 Responsiveness is irrespective of need.
#3 So what. Outside of factory calibrated suspension for factory low profile tires what does it matter what "most people" do? A properly tuned suspension can remove a lot of the harshness from low profile tires.

The fact of the matter is that low profile tires not only provide better grip for handling, acceleration, and braking they also provide room for larger brakes which in almost all cases means better brakes. Sounds like your crying over the fact that you're not the target market of a vehicle you'd like to own save for the low profile tires. Cry me a river. Buy something else or move to a place with better roads.


There are very few times when you need better grip and handling on the public roads driving at legal speeds. You need to drive to the condition of the roads. If you really do need them, you should probably be on the track.

Better brakes are meaningless when you can easily cause them to lock up. Once you're at the maximum of static friction, you transition over kinetic friction which is the point of ABS. Then it's just up to the tires. Wider tires mean you're more likely to hydroplane in the rain but you get better braking in the dry. It's a compromise. You are just adjusting for better braking in dry for worse performance in the rain/snow. You can't have both.

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/tire-talk/hydroplaning

Tires are basically a trade off in terms of the various compromises that are made. As for it being properly tuned, that's probably one of those things where it's more of a theory than reality as most people doing it for looks have no clue about the engineering. Good luck trying to convince an engineer that the trade offs are worth it. It basically boils down to looks. From a cost and daily driving perspective, they're a waste of money.



Here's what you just said,

Even though Car X has a shorter 60-0 than Car Y, it doesn't matter because brakes lock up so quickly.

A 225/65/16 tire is better in the rain than a 225/40/18.



My god, the amount of envy around here has no bounds.


Why not just say, "I can't stand large rims with low profile tires because they're expensive to run, and the factory uses really heavy rims"

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Here's what you just said,

Even though Car X has a shorter 60-0 than Car Y, it doesn't matter because brakes lock up so quickly.

A 225/65/16 tire is better in the rain than a 225/40/18.

My god, the amount of envy around here has no bounds.

Why not just say, "I can't stand large rims with low profile tires because they're expensive to run, and the factory uses really heavy rims"


You actually don't really understand what I said and didn't say.

The only reason you'd have a shorter 60-0 would be the contact patch. On a car, if you go with the higher sidewall, you don't maintain the same width.

A 225/65/16 tire and a 225/40/18 tire would have the same stopping distance assuming the same tire and the same car assuming all other things are equal as the contact patch is the same. However if you have a 205 tire on the car vs a 225, the 205 might have a slightly worse stopping distance in the dry, but better in the wet vs the 225. Tires are a compromise, if you go to one extreme to gain one item like dry traction, you lose another item like wet traction.

That's what real engineering is all about, picking the best set of compromises.

Don't confuse envy with contempt.

 

[SteveSRT8]

If you really listened, Capriracer shared the real truth. Tires vary so much you cannot make sweeping generalizations. Then factor in the incredible variations in cars and their suspensions.

My sig car is a 180 mph capable luxury sedan with an amazing performance envelope. Heavy, extremely comfortable, and powerful, it NEEDS big tires. Came stock with Goodyear RSA's, and I tried several brands as tires don't usually make it to 20k miles on this car.

My first set of Pilot Super Sport summers sold me almost instantly. Better in every way than any other brand of tire I had run. By far.


Now I have the Pilot 4S's. They stop better in the wet than you can imagine. Even the old PSS were excellent in the wet, even when worn down.


Simply put, if your car has the suspension setup to use them properly the big wheel/tire combo may be better than smaller ones. But it depends on the car, eh?

 

[meep]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Low profile tires are just a stupid way to get bent/cracked rims and flat tires.

Mainly done just for looks. Riding horrible is normal. Now you know what people do for looks. While lowering can improve handing, cars that are stock handle pretty well and you're not on a racetrack so most people don't even use the handling the car is capable of so there's no need to lower to try to improve it. Most of the time when you see someone who's car is really lowered, they're driving slow so they don't hit potholes and damage the body/suspension. Never could figure that one out, make a modification so you can drive extra slow.



ROFL..uh no.

#1 Low profile tires allow the use of wider tires which provide more grip used for handling and acceleration.
#2 Low profile tires are multiples more responsive than taller tires because there's less flex in the sidewall.
#3 Suspension tuning has a lot to do with how well a car rides on low profile tires.

Yes many do it primarily for looks.

Of course if you have to drive on garbage roads because salt/plowing/ice chew them up that's another issue separate of tire choice.


Let's talk Physics - let's fine-tune your thoughts.

#1:
Contact patch area is determined by the weight on the tire and the pressure in the tire. 800 lbs over a tire inflated to 40psi will yield 20 square inches, regardless of tire size. In a narrow tire, the contact patch will be comparatively long and thin, from forward to rear. As the tire becomes wider, the contact patch will change, becoming more wide and less long. Both have an equal amount of rubber on the ground. Both have an equal coefficient of friction, therefore "grip" is unchanged. This is workable until you approach silly-high HP/tq figures where more rubber is needed simply because the power overcomes the strength of the rubber.

"Grip" and stability differ with sidewall height from the tire deforming under load. Add in lateral forces, and sidewall flex is real. Stability in a turn, to a point, does/can improve with a wider tire. However, stability means different things. Lateral stability improves, whereas straight line reduces - the wider tire induces more leverage against the steering center of the tire, or that line drawn between the upper and lower ball joints which should pass through the center of the contact point on the ground. Add wider tires and heavy brake over uneven asphalt, and the driver will feel those yaw forces in the steering wheel. There's also another aspect of stability, and that is tracking at high speeds. The skinnier tire will track more accurately due to the longer contact patch, whereas a wider contact patch becomes more "skittish."

#2: can't argue with that, as long as they aren't so hard that the suspension has a hard time keeping them on the ground. Over rough terrain, a taller tire absorbing rough hits every few inches will deflect less and maintain better traction. A firmer low-pro that deflects away will provide less confidence when performance driving over harsh terrain- think hairpin heel-toe over broken pavement.

#3: of course. One thing that holds true, however, is a smaller wheel with larger tire is a lighter combination than a large wheel small tire setup. Handling is always improved with lower sprung weight. Suspension tuning always helps, but physics always wins.

It is always a compromise, right?

-m