IndyCar Classic at COTA

[bdcardinal]

http://www.imscdn.com/INDYCAR/Documents/5514/2019-03-23/indycar-qualresults.pdf

Race is about to start. I always thought IndyCar should have been running at COTA since it opened. I will be flipping back and forth between this and the Cup race at Martinsville. Bummed that my driver, Charlie Kimball, won't be in this race as he is running a limited schedule.

 

[benjamming]

No track limits at COTA? Ridiculous to say the least.

 

[billt460]

Over 14 seconds a lap slower than Formula 1. That surprised me.

 

[bdcardinal]

Slower than F1, but put on a much better show.

As far as track limits, I think somewhere in the middle would be good. Somewhere between the draconian F1 rules and IndyCar saying "the wall is the limit."

 

[benjamming]

I wish F1 had draconian track limit rules.

Some tracks they enforce it & others they don't. If there aren't track limits, then why bother painting the white outside (and inside) lines?

The show is simliar except for the mixing up of cold/hot tires due to numerous pit stops resulting in more action. They still seem to have difficulty following in high speed sections.

It is nice to see the folks move around much more though on the leaderboard!

 

[bdcardinal]

Purely my opinion, but the IndyCars sound better.

 

[bdcardinal]

Wow first caution so deep in the race. Really mixed everything up since there was a pit stop sequence going on. Looks like it worked out great for Dixon.

 

[bdcardinal]

Nevermind, no love for Dixon, and absolutely no love for Power.

 

[bdcardinal]

Congratulations to Colton Herta. Youngest winner in IndyCar history.

 

[slo town]

It was a great race! IndyCar is putting on a great show now days! The blend of road, street, and oval racing sets it apart.

Interesting how ex-F1 driver Ericsson wondered how he was going to last 60 laps at COTA in an IndyCar. F1 cars have power steering, IndyCars do not. Given an IndyCar team can participate an entire season with a budget of less than $10M - compared to an F1 budget of over $500M - why are F1 cars only 14 seconds a lap quicker??!!

Went to my first race at Laguna Seca in 1967 with my Dad. A CanAm race. Been hooked ever since. F1 has always been my primary love, but I'm slowly falling out of love now that the F1 circus races hybrids. The always entertaining and immensely qualified Steve Machett basically said the intro of the hybrids of hybrids to F1 was ridiculous because "there is nothing green about F1 racing". The carbon footprint of F1's aircraft transportation is unimaginable. Bring back the screaming V12s!

Listen to this to see what we are missing in today's F1 hybrid racing. Alain Prost qualifying at Jerez in 1990.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CypPQu5tsVQ&feature=related

Scott

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
............why are F1 cars only 14 seconds a lap quicker??!!

Only 14 seconds???..... 14 seconds a lap on a 3.4 mile circuit is an eternity! Just sit and watch 14 seconds click off on a stopwatch, while you're starring at it. You can all but fall asleep. Now try to envision the distance a race car covers in that amount of time, traveling 180+ MPH, while chasing another one going 195+.

As to the rest of what you said about F1, I have to agree with you. The Hybrid F1 cars are totally idiotic, and are as completely out of place on a Formula 1 circuit, as a hooker in leather Hot Pants at Sunday Mass. As Machett said, trying to make racing "green" is just plain stupid. It's not the speed that makes F1 cars cost so much. It's trying to build them to be competitive, and at the same time make them last, all while remaining within the FIA's constantly changing, ridiculous rules.

That was supposed to be the whole concept of the Indy Racing League. Back when they split from Champ Cars in 1994. IRL cars were supposed to be much cheaper to construct, but still be fast. And in the process give young American drivers a better chance to compete. Because it would allow for many more teams to be formed, that otherwise could not afford to be. Of course that lasted 15 minutes. Auto racing is much like a high maintenance woman. There is nothing "cheap" about either.... And never will be.

 

[555]

Long post that rambles, you've been warned!
The engine is what makes the boring sound. I understand F1 making what seems like illogical changes(it is F1 after all) but why the V6? Might as well make it a four cylinder, I think it would sound better. Supposedly the reason was so that consumers could relate to the powerplant since 1.6 liter turbos and hybrids are on offer from various manufacturers(but not in combination and they are four cylinders). In F1, when the regulations get really strict in one aspect, another area gets exploited(i.e. Mercedes wheel spacer). The sound is a vital aspect that excites the die hard fan and those who may have no knowledge of internal combustion. I'm hoping to try and make it to the F1 race in Montreal and see if it's any better in person.
Tony George did a nice job sending people straight to NASCAR including some drivers. This definitely boosted viewership and attendance for NASCAR and I wonder how much that contributed to NASCAR becoming top heavy. Keeping the top 25 spots for IRL drivers in the Indy 500 was to put it gently"unwise".
At COTA do they race the identical course as F1?
For the record, I like Indycar too.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by 555
At COTA do they race the identical course as F1?

Yes, they race on the same course, with the exception of having different track boundaries. The Indy Cars are allowed to "wander off" beyond the curbs, and in the process enjoy a much broader racing line than the F1 cars are allowed to.

"Some in the IndyCar paddock would like to see the course modified for the Indy cars, which will be slower than the more technologically advanced Formula One machines, but IndyCar and COTA officials have held firm in leaving the race course the same."

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/indycar/what-we-learned-indycar-spring-training-cota#ixzz5jAfh2ypK

 

[555]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by 555
At COTA do they race the identical course as F1?

Yes, they race on the same course, with the exception of having different track boundaries. The Indy Cars are allowed to "wander off" beyond the curbs, and in the process enjoy a much broader racing line than the F1 cars are allowed to.

"Some in the IndyCar paddock would like to see the course modified for the Indy cars, which will be slower than the more technologically advanced Formula One machines, but IndyCar and COTA officials have held firm in leaving the race course the same."

Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/indycar/what-we-learned-indycar-spring-training-cota#ixzz5jAfh2ypK


Thanks for the info. So it stands to reason the Indy Cars would be even slower than 14 seconds a lap if the course was as narrow as it is for F1. Interesting. Not criticizing, just surprised the difference is that big.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by benjamming
I wish F1 had draconian track limit rules.

Some tracks they enforce it & others they don't. If there aren't track limits, then why bother painting the white outside (and inside) lines?

Exactly. One weekend, they're deleting times for minor things even in practice. The next weekend, you can go wherever you want.

 

[IMPALA08]

Great race. I'm using FIA or system to see how it compares with IndyCar that gives points to everyone

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by 555
Long post that rambles, you've been warned!
The engine is what makes the boring sound. I understand F1 making what seems like illogical changes(it is F1 after all) but why the V6? Might as well make it a four cylinder, I think it would sound better. Supposedly the reason was so that consumers could relate to the powerplant since 1.6 liter turbos and hybrids are on offer from various manufacturers(but not in combination and they are four cylinders). In F1, when the regulations get really strict in one aspect, another area gets exploited(i.e. Mercedes wheel spacer). The sound is a vital aspect that excites the die hard fan and those who may have no knowledge of internal combustion. I'm hoping to try and make it to the F1 race in Montreal and see if it's any better in person.
Tony George did a nice job sending people straight to NASCAR including some drivers. This definitely boosted viewership and attendance for NASCAR and I wonder how much that contributed to NASCAR becoming top heavy. Keeping the top 25 spots for IRL drivers in the Indy 500 was to put it gently"unwise".
At COTA do they race the identical course as F1?
For the record, I like Indycar too.


When they were developing the 1.6L turbo hybrid formula, the FIA originally wanted 4 cylinder engines, but when Bernie Ecclestone heard the test engines, he demanded at least 6 cylinders so the sound would be more interesting. F1 is not necessarily supposed to be relevant to the road cars that peasants such as you and I can buy. The purpose of the hybrid formula is to show governments around the world that racing can be "green". And the combined powerplants are ungodly expensive.

 

[robertcope]

Friend of mine took some photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/144390874@N07/sets/72157690593500613/

 

[555]

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by 555
Long post that rambles, you've been warned!
The engine is what makes the boring sound. I understand F1 making what seems like illogical changes(it is F1 after all) but why the V6? Might as well make it a four cylinder, I think it would sound better. Supposedly the reason was so that consumers could relate to the powerplant since 1.6 liter turbos and hybrids are on offer from various manufacturers(but not in combination and they are four cylinders). In F1, when the regulations get really strict in one aspect, another area gets exploited(i.e. Mercedes wheel spacer). The sound is a vital aspect that excites the die hard fan and those who may have no knowledge of internal combustion. I'm hoping to try and make it to the F1 race in Montreal and see if it's any better in person.
Tony George did a nice job sending people straight to NASCAR including some drivers. This definitely boosted viewership and attendance for NASCAR and I wonder how much that contributed to NASCAR becoming top heavy. Keeping the top 25 spots for IRL drivers in the Indy 500 was to put it gently"unwise".
At COTA do they race the identical course as F1?
For the record, I like Indycar too.


When they were developing the 1.6L turbo hybrid formula, the FIA originally wanted 4 cylinder engines, but when Bernie Ecclestone heard the test engines, he demanded at least 6 cylinders so the sound would be more interesting. F1 is not necessarily supposed to be relevant to the road cars that peasants such as you and I can buy. The purpose of the hybrid formula is to show governments around the world that racing can be "green". And the combined powerplants are ungodly expensive.

F1 is never(never say never)relevant to road cars, I get all that, just pointing out what F.I.A. say and what they do is different. Which is similar to the method of operation of those topics banned from discussion here.
Do you really feel hybrids were introduced to please governments or a P.R. move? Made the cars really quick in a manner that is debatable if more displacement could achieve. F1 wants to be the fastest open wheel racing and claim to be the most technologically advanced.

 

[Garak]

We do have to remember that there is some road relevance. There is a lot of R&D that goes on in F1. These things do come down the pipe, albeit not in one or two years, generally speaking.