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Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5048784
03/20/19 09:52 AM
03/20/19 09:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,232
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,232
Connecticut
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Now my own opinion is to either over-maintain or don't and your mileage may very, just don't be fooled into thinking the unit will last longer simply because your changed the ATF every 30k miles.

This is highly dependent on the transmission....and also style of driving. Go the recommended 30K miles on your AX4N Ford transmission and you will probably shorten the life considerably. Go to 15K-20K intervals and you will almost certainly lengthen the life considerably. Some transmissions in smaller cars are so well built they really aren't than sensitive to fluid changes.

I've done a couple transmission cooler line flushes with a pan drop and I can attest that ALL the old fluid comes out after pumping/dumping about 15-20% more fluid than the system capacity. When it finally comes out perfectly clear for a while....that's fully cleaned....or at least 95%+.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 50K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5048805
03/20/19 10:16 AM
03/20/19 10:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 561
California
DGXR Offline
DGXR  Offline

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 561
California
If you plan to keep the vehicle long-term, it's a good idea to drop the pan at least once and see what is going on on there... replace the filter and gasket. I would guess the reason some people prefer the drain & fill method over the return line "flush" method is because it's just easier, and perhaps less messy. I dropped the pan once on my 2006 Tacoma at 120k miles, cleaned the magnets, replaced the filter & gasket -- there was hardly any buildup at all on the magnets and everything looked great. Based on this (and how I use this truck), there is no reason to drop it again. Doing drain & fills every 30-40k from here forward.


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 Base SR5 AC
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5048882
03/20/19 11:28 AM
03/20/19 11:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,133
The Motor City
Kestas Online content
Global Moderator
Kestas  Online Content
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,133
The Motor City
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
#2 Although the clutches are worn there is clutch material floating around in the existing ATF which assists with shifting. A flush removes this material so shift problems occur.

This statement makes absolutely no sense. If clutch material is so beneficial to shifting (and lack of it so problematic), they would formulate clutch material into the initial fill. I don't know where people get these statements.

I maintain my transmissions with a complete fluid exchange every 30K. I routinely get at least 200K out of my transmissions. My friends who believe in fill-for-life typically have the transmission start hiccuping at 100-150K.

Let's just say that I've been "fooled" into believing transmission maintenance has a positive effect on the longevity of one of the most expensive parts on you car.

Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: HangFire] #5048889
03/20/19 11:38 AM
03/20/19 11:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,890
MI
doitmyself Offline
doitmyself  Offline

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,890
MI
Originally Posted by HangFire
https://wagonmaster.net/equipment/#transmission
BG PF5 Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System
Part No. PF5HO (High output model for low-flow transmissions)

I think BG Products are partly to blame for some of this confusion. Just how powerful is their "power flush" "high output" system?

The owners manual of the PF5 indicates that the vehicle transmission pump is doing the work of exchanging the fluid. The YouTube videos on the PF5HO indicate that there is a 12 volt pump added to the PF5 model to help make exchange faster (under 10 minutes) on certain transmission models. The videos show pressures under 15 pounds, but I may not be interpreting things correctly.

I did not get the impression that there is any kind of high pressure power flushing going on. Maybe someone else will chime in. I think the powerflush in BG lingo refers to the cleaning additive they put in the system for 15 minutes prior to doing the actual exchange.

Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5048905
03/20/19 11:51 AM
03/20/19 11:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,024
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,024
VW Fanboy Island
I think the idea is that when you get a used car and the trans fluid looks bad, you should exchange the fluid. Regular D&Fs should do the trick after that. That's why you see members with newer cars doing D&Fs, because their fluid has not gotten contaminated to the point of needing to be exchanged.

Do you guys put additives in your trans when you exchange the fluid? If so how? Drain the corresponding amount of fresh fluid after the exchange?


03 Jetta AWP/09A 210k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5048917
03/20/19 11:59 AM
03/20/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,000
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline
BrianF  Offline

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,000
Sask, Canada
I am an advocate for the fluid exchange using the return cooling line. If you have a thermal bypass valve, you may need to remove it. I have done this method with great success in my Tb, old 2011 Ram 1500, 1993 C1500 and my brother in laws 1995 Jeep YJ, TJ, or what ever designation they were using for that year. The Jeep used some sort of Aisin 3 speed if I recall and the pump only engaged when you shifted to neutral or driving gears.


2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD, Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30, Baldwin BT7349.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD, Fram PH5
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5048918
03/20/19 12:01 PM
03/20/19 12:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,811
NE,Ohio
Rand Offline
Rand  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,811
NE,Ohio
Drain and fill is popular, esp when the manufacturer gives you a drain plug.

I drain and fill the 2010 accent aprox. yearly. Fluid never gets cruddy, I'm fine with replacing 1/2 capacity yearly.
Takes about 5min.. less if I do it at same time as oil change.

Hyundai SPIII 7$/qt from the dealer.

Also: there is no serviceable transmission filter on these, just a rockcatcher screen.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5048980
03/20/19 12:59 PM
03/20/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 660
WA
SnowDrifter Offline
SnowDrifter  Offline

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 660
WA
What is a flush

Should I flush my trans? (get rid of the old fluid and put new in)

Or drain and refill my trans? (get the old fluid out and put new in)


Couple drain and fills will get you to a new fluid state. Don't overthink it. And don't go fussing with all that nonsense about pulling the cooler lines off and turning the car on. That puts you at a good risk of running your oil pump dry.


2005 Tahoe - 140k
2003 Forester(the swagger wagon) - Rehomed
1999 Passat - Rehomed
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: SnowDrifter] #5049012
03/20/19 01:26 PM
03/20/19 01:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 692
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 692
E. Tennessee
^^^ This.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (82K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (87K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Sayjac] #5049021
03/20/19 01:33 PM
03/20/19 01:33 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,931
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,931
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by Sayjac
I was under the impression that most of what passes for a complete shop "flush" these days, is basically a trans return line exchange of all fluid. The difference, done with a machine rather than passive diy. I think the biggest issue folks like Honda have with ATF "flush", is when chemicals are added to the process. Then it becomes a no-no My .02

I thought that Honda's preferred method these days is to do 4 consecutive drain and fills at about 100k miles/10 years and driving around around the block between fills. For something like that I might consider just reusing the crush washer each time. until the final refill.

Back in the day they just recommended a single drain and fill every 30k miles. I understand that a lot of people just do that. I dealing with a rebuilt transmission and I'm not sure if it's worth doing an early drain and fill. I thought that it's not much different than a new transmission, which they don't recommend getting a drain and fill until about 100k miles.

Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5049026
03/20/19 01:36 PM
03/20/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 4
Michigan
Kreskin Offline
Kreskin  Offline

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 4
Michigan
Have always done drain/fill...but with initial change with filter around that 30-40k mark. Then 30k d/f after that. Have the same Rav4 as OP...trans capacity is listed 6.9 qt, drain with filter is right around 4qt, and drain without filter is 2.5 qt. This is the wife's grocery getter so fairly easy service. Have considered an exchange...especially for my Tundra that I tow with frequently, but these 30k d/f seem to keep the fluid clean enough and so far without issues.

Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: SnowDrifter] #5049300
03/20/19 08:02 PM
03/20/19 08:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,014
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 22,014
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by SnowDrifter
What is a flush

Should I flush my trans? (get rid of the old fluid and put new in)

Or drain and refill my trans? (get the old fluid out and put new in)


Couple drain and fills will get you to a new fluid state. Don't overthink it. And don't go fussing with all that nonsense about pulling the cooler lines off and turning the car on. That puts you at a good risk of running your oil pump dry.


Far from nonsense, the only thing you get is diluted dirty fluid. Some manufacturers spec line off exchange in the FSM as the preferred way to change the fluid, do it right and there is no chance of damaging the pump.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5049333
03/20/19 08:48 PM
03/20/19 08:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,000
Sask, Canada
BrianF Offline
BrianF  Offline

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,000
Sask, Canada
My AS69RC requires a drain and fill every 48,000km and filter at 96,000, although it is based of the most severe commercial use. They were kind enough to give us a drain plug though....


2006 Trailblazer LT. QSUD, Fram Ultra.
2017 Ram 3500 SLT Megacab. Duron SHP 10w30, Baldwin BT7349.
1993 GMC 1500. QSAD, Fram PH5
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: Back40] #5049439
03/21/19 01:01 AM
03/21/19 01:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,770
Maricopa Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,770
Maricopa Arizona
The sad part here is if the OP does either he is maintaining his AT more than many.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Drain/refill vs diy flush? [Re: DGXR] #5049603
03/21/19 08:00 AM
03/21/19 08:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 182
Va.
Piston_slap Offline
Piston_slap  Offline

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 182
Va.
Originally Posted by DGXR
If you plan to keep the vehicle long-term, it's a good idea to drop the pan at least once and see what is going on on there... replace the filter and gasket. I would guess the reason some people prefer the drain & fill method over the return line "flush" method is because it's just easier, and perhaps less messy. I dropped the pan once on my 2006 Tacoma at 120k miles, cleaned the magnets, replaced the filter & gasket -- there was hardly any buildup at all on the magnets and everything looked great. Based on this (and how I use this truck), there is no reason to drop it again. Doing drain & fills every 30-40k from here forward.

You can't "see" depletion of additives so I would think a wise schedule would be dependent on usage & load.


1994 Ford Econoline w/302 & 4R70W
Valvoline 10W-40, WIX Gold
Isotope U235
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