Auto Stop Start

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Perhaps BITOG should add a 'knuckle dragger' section.
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C'mon guys. It's a valid, worthwhile issue for discussion. Let's stay away from the personal jabs and focus on the facts -- and preferences (or non-preferences) regarding the system involved. If the personal stuff becomes dominant, then our orders are clear -- lock it down. Again, it's a good point to discuss, and I don't want to do that. EDIT: Ooops, I mean I don't want to lock it!!!
 
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Originally Posted by buck91
I despise the auto stop/start in our 2018 F150. Not sure how much it saves on the EPA track but many owners have reported no MPG loss when switching off. Myself, I see it as nothing more than a liability. How much sooner will the battery or starter require replacement? What are all those stop/run cycles doing for engine wear? What if it doesn't start when I need it to? Does the extra stress it puts on the battery reflect in shorter alternator life?

If there was a clear, or better yet significant, MPG benefit we could talk... but there isn't.

You may be interested in this device. It appears to be very easy to install, and it automatically defaults the Auto Start / Stop system to OFF, each time the vehicle is started. It deactivates it automatically. But it still can be used if for some reason you decide you want it. It just reverses the way it works. Much less of a PITA.

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by buck91
I despise the auto stop/start in our 2018 F150. Not sure how much it saves on the EPA track but many owners have reported no MPG loss when switching off. Myself, I see it as nothing more than a liability. How much sooner will the battery or starter require replacement? What are all those stop/run cycles doing for engine wear? What if it doesn't start when I need it to? Does the extra stress it puts on the battery reflect in shorter alternator life?

If there was a clear, or better yet significant, MPG benefit we could talk... but there isn't.

You may be interested in this device. It appears to be very easy to install, and it automatically defaults the Auto Start / Stop system to OFF, each time the vehicle is started. It deactivates it automatically. But it still can be used if for some reason you decide you want it. It just reverses the way it works. Much less of a PITA.

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/


You can also permanently disable it on Fords via FORSCAN and a Bluetooth dongle via editing the BCM. Its just a bit you flip. If you want to get real through you can flip a bit in the cluster to not show it even as an option and also flip a bit in the module controlling the dash buttons so it thinks that the disable button is non existant too. So it won't light up if you press it. And doing this costs less than that, guaranteed.
 
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I really don't have a dog in this fight, as none of our vehicles have this technology, which makes having an opinion a little too easy. That acknowledged, and having reviewed all the posts, I'm coming down "slightly against," at least as the system is currently implemented. If it were installed consistently in a neutral fashion, I'd be fine with it being installed in every vehicle sold. By neutral, I mean the owner or driver chooses "permanently on", "permanently off", or "select with every start" and so on. But it's not. It appears that many of the installations default to ON, every start, no matter what the owner/driver wants. That sort of manipulative rigging reveals that the manufacturer's motives are not to put the customer's preferences first. Once the OWNER OWNS the vehicle, his or her choices and interests should come first.
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk
I really don't have a dog in this fight, as none of our vehicles have this technology, which makes having an opinion a little too easy. That acknowledged, and having reviewed all the posts, I'm coming down "slightly against," at least as the system is currently implemented. If it were installed consistently in a neutral fashion, I'd be fine with it being installed in every vehicle sold. By neutral, I mean the owner or driver chooses "permanently on", "permanently off", or "select with every start" and so on. But it's not. It appears that many of the installations default to ON, every start, no matter what the owner/driver wants. That sort of manipulative rigging reveals that the manufacturer's motives are not to put the customer's preferences first. Once the OWNER OWNS the vehicle, his or her choices and interests should come first.

From what I read some systems don't give you an option to turn it off. Having the option to turn it off I can deal with. If I have to go to the aftermarket for a dongle or hack that would bother me, a lot.
 
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Originally Posted by ekpolk
I really don't have a dog in this fight, as none of our vehicles have this technology, which makes having an opinion a little too easy. That acknowledged, and having reviewed all the posts, I'm coming down "slightly against," at least as the system is currently implemented. If it were installed consistently in a neutral fashion, I'd be fine with it being installed in every vehicle sold. By neutral, I mean the owner or driver chooses "permanently on", "permanently off", or "select with every start" and so on. But it's not. It appears that many of the installations default to ON, every start, no matter what the owner/driver wants. That sort of manipulative rigging reveals that the manufacturer's motives are not to put the customer's preferences first. Once the OWNER OWNS the vehicle, his or her choices and interests should come first.


The CAFE value is negotiated between the manufacturers and the epa,there is no way to predict the actual mileage gained(too many variables) so I bet the harder it is to turn off the more they get to post on the all important window sticker .
I imagine cylinder de-activation is the same ,if given a choice I pick stop start.Wonder if any cars have both?
 
Originally Posted by honeeagle
Originally Posted by ekpolk
I really don't have a dog in this fight, as none of our vehicles have this technology, which makes having an opinion a little too easy. That acknowledged, and having reviewed all the posts, I'm coming down "slightly against," at least as the system is currently implemented. If it were installed consistently in a neutral fashion, I'd be fine with it being installed in every vehicle sold. By neutral, I mean the owner or driver chooses "permanently on", "permanently off", or "select with every start" and so on. But it's not. It appears that many of the installations default to ON, every start, no matter what the owner/driver wants. That sort of manipulative rigging reveals that the manufacturer's motives are not to put the customer's preferences first. Once the OWNER OWNS the vehicle, his or her choices and interests should come first.


The CAFE value is negotiated between the manufacturers and the epa,there is no way to predict the actual mileage gained(too many variables) so I bet the harder it is to turn off the more they get to post on the all important window sticker .
I imagine cylinder de-activation is the same ,if given a choice I pick stop start.Wonder if any cars have both?




I believe the Mazda SkyActiv in Europe has start stop, cylinder deactivation and with the right model trim a turbo to boot.

Saying that now will create a lot of tension amongst some.
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk
I really don't have a dog in this fight, as none of our vehicles have this technology, which makes having an opinion a little too easy. That acknowledged, and having reviewed all the posts, I'm coming down "slightly against," at least as the system is currently implemented. If it were installed consistently in a neutral fashion, I'd be fine with it being installed in every vehicle sold. By neutral, I mean the owner or driver chooses "permanently on", "permanently off", or "select with every start" and so on. But it's not. It appears that many of the installations default to ON, every start, no matter what the owner/driver wants. That sort of manipulative rigging reveals that the manufacturer's motives are not to put the customer's preferences first. Once the OWNER OWNS the vehicle, his or her choices and interests should come first.

I'm the same way...... Sort of. None of my vehicles have it. And there is no way I would ever choose to buy a vehicle with it. Because the end result does not justify the means. You are being forced to live with a very complex system. That at some point will require much more expensive diagnosis, parts, and labor to repair, than a standard, conventional starter system. This is especially true for someone like myself, who doesn't drive a lot of miles every year. And who keeps their vehicles a very long time past the warranty.

I'm not concerned about fuel mileage. And even if I were, this whole Mickey Mouse engineering disaster doesn't deliver any type of substantial improvement. Certainly not in any acceptable ratio to it's expense and complexity. Not to mention how it negatively effects the way the vehicle drives for most people. Most find it annoying.

As always, common sense has to kick in somewhere. It doesn't here. I mean really, who in their right mind is going to want to purchase a high performance 6.4 L V-8 Ford Raptor truck with one of these things on it? So they might be able to save 3% to 6% on gas, if that? It's ridiculous. People who purchase $65K to $75K high performance trucks don't care about fuel economy. But regardless, it's being shoved down the consumers throat. Without much, if any improvement.

That is what annoys people the most, including myself. I have no problem accepting the fact you are always going to have people who defend whatever it is they buy. Regardless if it's something they purchase willingly, or as in this case, are having it rammed down their throat. Regardless if it's a POS or not. They will always come away defending it. I can understand that to a point. I'm just not swayed by any of it in the least.

New technology is always going to appear in new vehicles. Some will be good. Others like this won't. It's fine as long as the consumer can choose which, or none at all. That is not the case here. It is being forced on the consumer. And for the most part, they don't like it.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It's painfully obvious that your are unaware of how these systems are designed to operate and instead rely on hyperbole/pie-in-the-sky situations which will never materialize. There's one type of driver which will never like start-stop and it's the individual who drives like he's trying to catch a fire, an individual who will dart out into the smallest space in traffic in order to arrive at his destination a whole 60 seconds sooner.

Stop trying to turn this thing into a Moon shot. It's not. You come to an intersection and stop. Your engine stops. That's it. That's what it does. When you remove your foot from the brake it starts again.... You hope. It might start immediately. It might crank for a few seconds before it does. It might hesitate. Cars do it all the time. New and old.

While all that is happening you are waiting. The traffic around you isn't. If you are trying to make a left turn into opposing traffic, like thousands of people do every day, in every city and town across this country, it can cause a significant delay in the time that happens. That can easily place a driver into a dangerous situation he or she didn't plan on being in. And don't be so naïve to think that is such a, "pie in the sky" situation. If you do you obviously haven't driven much. Let alone driven in heavy rush hour traffic.

Cars don't start instantaneously. Every time, all the time. And don't be so foolish to come in here and try to tell me, or anyone else they do. It has nothing to do with, "darting out into traffic". Or, "driving like you trying to catch a fire". Or any of your other dopey, insulting descriptions. As I said, these things make people uncomfortable. As a result they don't like them or want them. I don't blame them. You do. Perhaps you enjoy having things you don't like, want, or need shoved down your throat. Most people don't.

Read this thread. You have dozens of people here alone who own them, and despise them. You have others who would never own a car with it. I quoted them all in a single post. Others have chimed in on their dislike of them in pages since. Are you going to sit there on your technology worshiping rear end, and tell us we're all wrong? Because you seem to think we just can't figure this silly contraption out like you can.

This is just one thread in a single forum. How do you think these stupid things would fare in a nationwide survey? Better or worse? How about if everyone took a test drive? Do you think that would help sell them? There is no "advantage" to having these things. And the only reason they were put into cars in the first place, is for a supposed few cents worth of fuel savings, that many argue they don't provide. That's it. That's their giant claim to fame.

Car companies wouldn't even be messing with them, if it wasn't for government mandates regarding fuel mileage that is forcing them to. And when you get down to it, that's all this thing is. Another gadget to pacify the government...... Not the consumer. Except for you, and a few others who worship every do dad they stick into cars. Along with the people who got stuck with these abortions. And who now want to try to save face by telling everyone just how fabulous they are. When in reality, they never would have purchased them if they had the choice.



As I said, I don't have a problem with people not liking the S/S system because of the experience and contrary to your assumption I'm not in love with it either. I do have a problem with opinions of people don't know jacks--t about the system who roll off a bunch of "scenarios" as justification for why the system is bad.

The reality is that you have a problem with the why manufacturers install these systems and frankly it's irrelevant to the discussion.
 
Some fuel for the fire...

As part of an annual review of assets, I went through and re-estimated the current value of my 2016 F150.

Per Edmunds, who has auto start-stop as a feature that can be selected for this model year truck, it tacks on just shy of $100 in value to the truck.

Guess someone sees some value to it...
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The reality is that you have a problem with the why manufacturers install these systems and frankly it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Yes, I do. They install a complex, expensive system in order to game the EPA at a supposed increase in fuel mileage. And it doesn't increase it enough to justify it, if it increases it at all. And then to top it off, they jam it down the consumers throat. And if you think that's irrelevant, you're no further ahead in this discussion, than you were trying to justify women in upper echelon auto racing. You're talking in circles so fast, you're making yourself dizzy.
 
This week, auto stop/start. Next week, cylinder deactivation.

Same old story. Anything new is bad and a conspiracy.

Stick with your Rambler. 🚗
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
This week, auto stop/start. Next week, cylinder deactivation.

Same old story. Anything new is bad and a conspiracy.

Stick with your Rambler. 🚗


Many BITOGers in a nutshell.
 
Some folks like all the bells and whistles and some can actually drive and use their eyes and ears.
I don't need any driver assist gizmos.
No cameras
No lane assist
No help braking
Any of this junk needs to be optional for those who need it.
The ones that use it just have more time to take selfies
 
Originally Posted by Dallas69
Some folks like all the bells and whistles and some can actually drive and use their eyes and ears.
I don't need any driver assist gizmos.
No cameras
No lane assist
No help braking
Any of this junk needs to be optional for those who need it.
The ones that use it just have more time to take selfies

Actually I think they need to be mandatory for those that think they're so great behind the wheel they don't need them and they don't help.

Driver assist systems make ALL drivers safer.
 
Originally Posted by Dallas69
Some folks like all the bells and whistles and some can actually drive and use their eyes and ears.
I don't need any driver assist gizmos.
No cameras
No lane assist
No help braking
Any of this junk needs to be optional for those who need it.
The ones that use it just have more time to take selfies





So you do just fine in your sixties beater sled. Good for you.

I also am the driver and in command of the car. These drivers assist gizmos as you call them assist me. I check my HUD for any blind spot warnings before going to the mirror. All the info I need is right in the windshield, no need to glance down. The back up camera gives me a excellent view not only to the rear but the sides as well. If I have to back out in a parking lot between two bro trucks I can see the side traffic if any long before with the camera.

I can use the voice assist to direct me to the nearest gas station or wherever without fiddling with touch screens or knobs.

I can drive longer distances much more refreshed with the adaptive cruise. The LED turning headlights are great at night on side streets where lighting is non existent. Finally, if someone darts out into the street in front of me I know the emergency braking system is faster than my foot. That might save a life or prevent a accident. If any of these systems prevent even a minor bump they just paid for themselves.

So yes I use these systems but to be clear these systems assist me. I am still the driver.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
This week, auto stop/start. Next week, cylinder deactivation.

Same old story. Anything new is bad and a conspiracy.

Stick with your Rambler. 🚗


Yep-I guess there are some on here who will be forced just to buy older and older cars as this technology becomes prevalent.

Also, in many cases it has nothing to do with the "tech itself" but just some who are control freaks.
 
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