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Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: ekpolk] #5046914 03/18/19 01:44 PM
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nthach Offline
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Originally Posted by ekpolk

* Yes, I've seen it -- there's actually a little speaker in front of the radiator, between the two horns, that emanates the artificial car noise! I'd so love to replace the phony "polite car approaching" sound with that of a straight-pipe Harley!!! laugh

Now that would be funny - I would use the sound of a jet engine if it was me.

And it's funny, Teslas don't have the "fake car" sounds - but Toyota decides to do that.

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5047535 03/19/19 03:01 AM
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billt460 Offline
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It's painfully obvious that your are unaware of how these systems are designed to operate and instead rely on hyperbole/pie-in-the-sky situations which will never materialize. There's one type of driver which will never like start-stop and it's the individual who drives like he's trying to catch a fire, an individual who will dart out into the smallest space in traffic in order to arrive at his destination a whole 60 seconds sooner.

Stop trying to turn this thing into a Moon shot. It's not. You come to an intersection and stop. Your engine stops. That's it. That's what it does. When you remove your foot from the brake it starts again.... You hope. It might start immediately. It might crank for a few seconds before it does. It might hesitate. Cars do it all the time. New and old.

While all that is happening you are waiting. The traffic around you isn't. If you are trying to make a left turn into opposing traffic, like thousands of people do every day, in every city and town across this country, it can cause a significant delay in the time that happens. That can easily place a driver into a dangerous situation he or she didn't plan on being in. And don't be so naïve to think that is such a, "pie in the sky" situation. If you do you obviously haven't driven much. Let alone driven in heavy rush hour traffic.

Cars don't start instantaneously. Every time, all the time. And don't be so foolish to come in here and try to tell me, or anyone else they do. It has nothing to do with, "darting out into traffic". Or, "driving like you trying to catch a fire". Or any of your other dopey, insulting descriptions. As I said, these things make people uncomfortable. As a result they don't like them or want them. I don't blame them. You do. Perhaps you enjoy having things you don't like, want, or need shoved down your throat. Most people don't.

Read this thread. You have dozens of people here alone who own them, and despise them. You have others who would never own a car with it. I quoted them all in a single post. Others have chimed in on their dislike of them in pages since. Are you going to sit there on your technology worshiping rear end, and tell us we're all wrong? Because you seem to think we just can't figure this silly contraption out like you can.

This is just one thread in a single forum. How do you think these stupid things would fare in a nationwide survey? Better or worse? How about if everyone took a test drive? Do you think that would help sell them? There is no "advantage" to having these things. And the only reason they were put into cars in the first place, is for a supposed few cents worth of fuel savings, that many argue they don't provide. That's it. That's their giant claim to fame.

Car companies wouldn't even be messing with them, if it wasn't for government mandates regarding fuel mileage that is forcing them to. And when you get down to it, that's all this thing is. Another gadget to pacify the government...... Not the consumer. Except for you, and a few others who worship every do dad they stick into cars. Along with the people who got stuck with these abortions. And who now want to try to save face by telling everyone just how fabulous they are. When in reality, they never would have purchased them if they had the choice.

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5047548 03/19/19 03:53 AM
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ms21043 Offline
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No problem, just install one of those start/stop eliminator kits, then you don't have to press the auto start stop button anymore.


5W30, whatever's on sale
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5047558 03/19/19 04:19 AM
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roadrunner1 Offline
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I wonder how many of posters actually own a vehicle with start/stop?

As I stated earlier our F150 with 56,xxx mi. has worked flawlessly since new, as soon as brake peddle pressure decreases the engine is idling smoothly, long before your foot ever reaches accelerator pedal. Also in high/low ambient temps the engine won't let cabin temp alter from where thermostat is set.


'15 F350 6.7
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5047605 03/19/19 06:05 AM
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billt460 Offline
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Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: roadrunner1] #5047653 03/19/19 06:47 AM
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Benzadmiral Offline
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Originally Posted by roadrunner1
I wonder how many of posters actually own a vehicle with start/stop?

As I stated earlier our F150 with 56,xxx mi. has worked flawlessly since new, as soon as brake peddle pressure decreases the engine is idling smoothly, long before your foot ever reaches accelerator pedal. Also in high/low ambient temps the engine won't let cabin temp alter from where thermostat is set.


I do now; the 2015 BMW 328i has it. Fortunately it came with an "Off" button, and the car remembers the setting from the last time the car was on, so I don't have to re-push it every time I start the engine. I'll admit that it is relatively seamless, the few times I've left it on. But to be sitting at a light and see your tach needle sink to zero -- that's disturbing.

I don't know if anyone in this thread has mentioned it, but what about the wear on the starter if you use the auto stop-start all the time for several years?

And I don't know if it really saves all that much gas.


* *
-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('16 Buick LaCrosse Premium, 3.6L, deep garnet/light neutral)
http://benzadmiral-uncle.blogspot.com/
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5047656 03/19/19 06:52 AM
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Benzadmiral Offline
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Originally Posted by rocky8314
Originally Posted by spasm3
Had a chevy rental with it. I hated it. Would not buy one unless it could be bypassed or deselected.


Was my first time driving something with Auto stop start..I know ford/chrysler have buttons to disable...GM just jams it down your throat with no option..GM is crossed off when it comes to future cars.

The new Buick Regal Sportback, which I was checking out, has it, but it has to be turned off each time you start the engine. No permanent disable feature. That bothered me.


* *
-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('16 Buick LaCrosse Premium, 3.6L, deep garnet/light neutral)
http://benzadmiral-uncle.blogspot.com/
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: Benzadmiral] #5047692 03/19/19 07:46 AM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by Benzadmiral
Originally Posted by roadrunner1
I wonder how many of posters actually own a vehicle with start/stop?

As I stated earlier our F150 with 56,xxx mi. has worked flawlessly since new, as soon as brake peddle pressure decreases the engine is idling smoothly, long before your foot ever reaches accelerator pedal. Also in high/low ambient temps the engine won't let cabin temp alter from where thermostat is set.


I do now; the 2015 BMW 328i has it. Fortunately it came with an "Off" button, and the car remembers the setting from the last time the car was on, so I don't have to re-push it every time I start the engine. I'll admit that it is relatively seamless, the few times I've left it on. But to be sitting at a light and see your tach needle sink to zero -- that's disturbing.

I don't know if anyone in this thread has mentioned it, but what about the wear on the starter if you use the auto stop-start all the time for several years?

And I don't know if it really saves all that much gas.




Check your particular system to see if it uses the starter. Some systems are precise in how the pistons are set when stopped and use self ignition to restart.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5047815 03/19/19 10:14 AM
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wings&wheels Offline
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I really do not like it on my current vehicle, but drive others where it is not that bad.

My Range Rover TDV6, a diesel, stops and starts with a noticeable shudder, especially on starting. The system cannot be set to off, it must be disabled each time you start the car, irritating. It also does add a smell delay to quick starts where it can be a bit disconcerting and I am not that comfortable with the extra cycles on the starter...

That said, the X5 we keep around for the In Laws has a great system that is hardly noticeable, and can be set to disabled.

All in all, it is a solution to a created problem; that of excessive mileage standards leading to decreasing marginal returns for additional complexity and cost to the consumer.


'05 Lotus Elise S/C
'85 Land Rover 90 diesel
'74 Triumph TR6
'74 BMW 2002
'72 Land Rover Series III 88"
'99 Porsche 996 (Wife's)
'01 Porsche Boxster S (mostly Wife's...)
Piper Pa28-236


Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: roadrunner1] #5048023 03/19/19 01:42 PM
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MNgopher Offline
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Originally Posted by roadrunner1
I wonder how many of posters actually own a vehicle with start/stop?

As I stated earlier our F150 with 56,xxx mi. has worked flawlessly since new, as soon as brake peddle pressure decreases the engine is idling smoothly, long before your foot ever reaches accelerator pedal. Also in high/low ambient temps the engine won't let cabin temp alter from where thermostat is set.



Agreed. My 2016 F150 with the 2.7 still purrs like the day we bought it with 41,000 on it now. I bought it knowing it had the system on it and an understanding of how it worked. I'm still happy with it. A few on this board never admit that someone might actually like it, but it is what it is.

I get the feeling that some think every start of this system is like a cold start. On the F150, I can state that it is not - the engine is primed and ready to go.

I haven't owned a vehicle ever that I wasn't confident would start. (At least not on a warm start, and the Auto start stop on the F150 does not engage until the coolant temp is at least 130F. Arctic cold starts are another matter...) The last vehicle I drove like that was equipped with a carb - not fuel injection. And that was 25 years ago.

There are plenty of studies showing that these do save gas in typical driving cycles. I can state it saves me gas - around 5+% in my case, with a decent amount of stop and go driving. You can lead a horse to water...

Some folks want to make a mountain out of a molehill, and are convinced their opinion is the only correct one (as evidenced in this thread and in others).

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5048097 03/19/19 03:05 PM
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honeeagle Offline
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Perhaps BITOG should add a 'knuckle dragger' section. LOL


Volvo 670 singled smart car 'on deck' towing newmar 5th
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5048104 03/19/19 03:10 PM
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ekpolk Offline
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C'mon guys. It's a valid, worthwhile issue for discussion. Let's stay away from the personal jabs and focus on the facts -- and preferences (or non-preferences) regarding the system involved. If the personal stuff becomes dominant, then our orders are clear -- lock it down. Again, it's a good point to discuss, and I don't want to do that. EDIT: Ooops, I mean I don't want to lock it!!!

Last edited by ekpolk; 03/19/19 09:42 PM. Reason: really bad phrasing of idea. . .

18 Prius Two-Eco (L-Ion Batt), Mag Grey, 4000 miles (M1 AFE 0W-20).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl, only 70k miles (M1 EP 5w-30).
04 Prius, Black, 200k miles (M1 EP 5w-30). 2006-2019 --RIP 😥
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: buck91] #5048644 03/20/19 06:05 AM
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billt460 Offline
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Originally Posted by buck91
I despise the auto stop/start in our 2018 F150. Not sure how much it saves on the EPA track but many owners have reported no MPG loss when switching off. Myself, I see it as nothing more than a liability. How much sooner will the battery or starter require replacement? What are all those stop/run cycles doing for engine wear? What if it doesn't start when I need it to? Does the extra stress it puts on the battery reflect in shorter alternator life?

If there was a clear, or better yet significant, MPG benefit we could talk... but there isn't.

You may be interested in this device. It appears to be very easy to install, and it automatically defaults the Auto Start / Stop system to OFF, each time the vehicle is started. It deactivates it automatically. But it still can be used if for some reason you decide you want it. It just reverses the way it works. Much less of a PITA.

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/


Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: billt460] #5048744 03/20/19 08:15 AM
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Colt45ws Offline
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Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by buck91
I despise the auto stop/start in our 2018 F150. Not sure how much it saves on the EPA track but many owners have reported no MPG loss when switching off. Myself, I see it as nothing more than a liability. How much sooner will the battery or starter require replacement? What are all those stop/run cycles doing for engine wear? What if it doesn't start when I need it to? Does the extra stress it puts on the battery reflect in shorter alternator life?

If there was a clear, or better yet significant, MPG benefit we could talk... but there isn't.

You may be interested in this device. It appears to be very easy to install, and it automatically defaults the Auto Start / Stop system to OFF, each time the vehicle is started. It deactivates it automatically. But it still can be used if for some reason you decide you want it. It just reverses the way it works. Much less of a PITA.

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/


You can also permanently disable it on Fords via FORSCAN and a Bluetooth dongle via editing the BCM. Its just a bit you flip. If you want to get real through you can flip a bit in the cluster to not show it even as an option and also flip a bit in the module controlling the dash buttons so it thinks that the disable button is non existant too. So it won't light up if you press it. And doing this costs less than that, guaranteed.

Last edited by Colt45ws; 03/20/19 08:15 AM.

-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 86k
Pennzoil Conv HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5048815 03/20/19 09:29 AM
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ekpolk Offline
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I really don't have a dog in this fight, as none of our vehicles have this technology, which makes having an opinion a little too easy. That acknowledged, and having reviewed all the posts, I'm coming down "slightly against," at least as the system is currently implemented. If it were installed consistently in a neutral fashion, I'd be fine with it being installed in every vehicle sold. By neutral, I mean the owner or driver chooses "permanently on", "permanently off", or "select with every start" and so on. But it's not. It appears that many of the installations default to ON, every start, no matter what the owner/driver wants. That sort of manipulative rigging reveals that the manufacturer's motives are not to put the customer's preferences first. Once the OWNER OWNS the vehicle, his or her choices and interests should come first.


18 Prius Two-Eco (L-Ion Batt), Mag Grey, 4000 miles (M1 AFE 0W-20).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl, only 70k miles (M1 EP 5w-30).
04 Prius, Black, 200k miles (M1 EP 5w-30). 2006-2019 --RIP 😥
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