Auto Stop Start

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Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

There is always 2 sides to every story. Here is what many people who own them have to say after dealing with them over time. It's not all about saving a few pennies in gas.

"Unfortunately this feature is not well designed on many of today's vehicles. Many owners have complained about:

•Restart delay when pressing the gas pedal.
•Vibration when the vehicle restarts.
•Vehicle roll back on hills when shifting from the brake to the gas pedal.
•Heating and cooling systems change the temperature noticeably when the engine turns off.
•Nuisance stops and starts during maneuvers like parking.
•Anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart.
•Startled or angry pedestrians when engine restarts in front of them.
•Concerns about the added wear on their on the vehicle with thousands of additional restarts.
•Battery replacement intervals being reduced considerably.

Then their is just the general frustration of having this 'nanny' feature forced on you in your vehicle you otherwise love!"


Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it. Edmund's was once a great site-it's no longer so. The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.





The settings on these systems seem to be set at a short intervals. I would like to see a longer setting like 5-10 seconds before the engine shuts off. In a Fiat van I rented with this system, it would do exactly like you said, shut off during parking maneuvers for example. I found that annoying. That van also shut off in the first several minutes while the engine was cold. The stop and restart during that time is not something I would prefer. It must depend on the system as I've heard most systems now do not activate until the engine is warmed up.

Of course, once I discovered the off button for that system that became part of the startup actions as long as I had it.

We all have the capability to do this already. It's called the ignition. If you are at a train crossing with a long train, shut the car off. It's our choice , not the computer.
 
My wife has an F150 with the 2.7, the auto start/stop works flawlessly. Maintaining cabin temp as it should, restarting when it should, and shutting off when it should. This truck has 55,000 mi. currently with zero issues. She likes the feature as her commute to work has several traffic lights and has become accustomed to the way the system operates.

Its almost unbelievable as to how quickly the restart happens, instant is an understatement.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

There is always 2 sides to every story. Here is what many people who own them have to say after dealing with them over time. It's not all about saving a few pennies in gas.

"Unfortunately this feature is not well designed on many of today's vehicles. Many owners have complained about:

•Restart delay when pressing the gas pedal.
•Vibration when the vehicle restarts.
•Vehicle roll back on hills when shifting from the brake to the gas pedal.
•Heating and cooling systems change the temperature noticeably when the engine turns off.
•Nuisance stops and starts during maneuvers like parking.
•Anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart.
•Startled or angry pedestrians when engine restarts in front of them.
•Concerns about the added wear on their on the vehicle with thousands of additional restarts.
•Battery replacement intervals being reduced considerably.

Then their is just the general frustration of having this 'nanny' feature forced on you in your vehicle you otherwise love!"


Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it. Edmund's was once a great site-it's no longer so. The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.





The settings on these systems seem to be set at a short intervals. I would like to see a longer setting like 5-10 seconds before the engine shuts off. In a Fiat van I rented with this system, it would do exactly like you said, shut off during parking maneuvers for example. I found that annoying. That van also shut off in the first several minutes while the engine was cold. The stop and restart during that time is not something I would prefer. It must depend on the system as I've heard most systems now do not activate until the engine is warmed up.

Of course, once I discovered the off button for that system that became part of the startup actions as long as I had it.

We all have the capability to do this already. It's called the ignition. If you are at a train crossing with a long train, shut the car off. It's our choice , not the computer.



Yep-there have been a few posts on here about guys not liking ABS-a system which there are no downsides. If there was the ability to turn that off-that would affect the safety of everyone around them. Guys who change their own oil seem to be control freaks-it's about "choice" not about what saves fuel or makes driving inherently safer.
 
Originally Posted by CKN
. . . The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.
Why am I picturing a sanctimonious, self-righteous Jill Claybrook when I read about those "startled [mentally insufficient] pedestrians"??? Great points, though. As you suggest, the Feds have already addressed the issue of uber-stealthy, homicidal hybrids. Yep, you guessed it, they're now required to emanate "artificial car noise" so as to protect witless pedestrians who are insufficiently aware to take care of their own safety.* The system even has a name: vehicle proximity notification system! If this gem makes its way into the Auto-SS vehicles, then you'll have a system to save you from the system that's saving you from wasting gas!!! Brave new world??? More like Chicken new world!

* Yes, I've seen it -- there's actually a little speaker in front of the radiator, between the two horns, that emanates the artificial car noise! I'd so love to replace the phony "polite car approaching" sound with that of a straight-pipe Harley!!!
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted by MNgopher
I figured out how to manipulate brake pressure within a day or two of driving it to get it to respond the way I wanted it to.

You shouldn't have to manipulate anything in order to get your brand new vehicle to drive the way you want it to... Or the way it should. If it didn't have that stupid system on it, people wouldn't have to. It seems people who have these things all complain about them in the same offbeat way...... "They're great! All you have to do is this, that, and the other thing. And your car will drive just like you never had it!"
 
Originally Posted by CKN
Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it.

You don't "park" your car in the middle of a crowded intersection, in the left turn bay at rush hour. Sitting at a dead stop, waiting for traffic to clear with your foot on the brake, and your engine dead.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by CKN
Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it.

You don't "park" your car in the middle of a crowded intersection, in the left turn bay at rush hour. Sitting at a dead stop, waiting for traffic to clear with your foot on the brake, and your engine dead.




But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, with that in mind, the question that first comes to me is whether this is a realistic risk, or whether it's any more a danger than the an "old school" car "stalling out" when trying to accelerate from a stop? I'm not passing judgment upon the opinions of those who don't like the system, that's an individual taste thing, I'm wondering whether, on the more objective side, there might be a valid safety concern. This asked, I'm pretty sure that beyond the manufacturers' design and testing processes, the "liability hawks" must have given the design a thorough going over as well before it was released for sale to the public.
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Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.



That's really a silly statement. The things is-the exact same statements were made about ABS-"What if it fails or doesn't work properly?".

I'm sure maybe there are failures of ANY SYSTEM. But it's a percentage with many zeros behind the decimal point.

The "new tech phobia" is a regular occurrence here on BITOG.
 
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I was driving my dad's 2018 cadilliac ATS turbo 4 cylinder a lot recently, and found it to be quite annoying. It really shakes the whole car when it starts.

I realy found it annoying when it would choose to restart. Like pulling up to the dangling tennis ball in the garage. If I stopped an inch short the engine was off, had to restart, then would shut off when the tennis ball moved, then would turn back on when I put it into park and I would slam the button to turn it back off. When my mom would drive the car I would hear the thing stop and start 5 times as she approached the tennis ball. Pretty ridiculous.

When driving in traffic I got so Annoyed when I actually had to come to a complete stop that I modified my driving so i would rarely have to. All those people behind me itching to look at their cell phones hated me.

Every time I put my charger on his battery, even just after driving, the amperage the battery accepted in the mid 14 range indicated the battery was nowhere near being fully charged. Issues Deactivating the trunk light, where the AGM battery is located, kept me from truly top charging this battery and it was obvious the cars charging system was never going to try and do so.

The vehicle does start quite quickly when stopped and one lifts foot from brake, it is not like one has to wait, or can beat it.

I'd still prefer to be able to turn it off easily and not have to do so each time I got in it.
 
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.



That's really a silly statement. The things is-the exact same statements were made about ABS-"What if it fails or doesn't work properly?".

I'm sure maybe there are failures of ANY SYSTEM. But it's a percentage with many zeros behind the decimal point.

The "new tech phobia" is a regular occurrence here on BITOG.


That's not really a valid comparison. If the ABS fails, you still have brakes, if the auto start stop fails, the engine doesn't start. One is decidedly less convenient and potentially significantly more dangerous than the other.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.



That's really a silly statement. The things is-the exact same statements were made about ABS-"What if it fails or doesn't work properly?".

I'm sure maybe there are failures of ANY SYSTEM. But it's a percentage with many zeros behind the decimal point.

The "new tech phobia" is a regular occurrence here on BITOG.


That's not really a valid comparison. If the ABS fails, you still have brakes, if the auto start stop fails, the engine doesn't start. One is decidedly less convenient and potentially significantly more dangerous than the other.

Certainly a bit of hyperbole to say that it risks a wreck. I usually wait to see if the driver in front of me has started moving before I accelerate. I've experienced drivers at red lights not paying attention when it turned green. I've stalled before driving a stick and haven't been rear ended yet. Heck, one time I remember seeing a driver who feel asleep at a red light and it only resulted in a lot of honking trying to wake up the driver. I was told this was probably an automated brake system that kept the brakes applied until the gas was applied.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.




This is not a 1970's Dodge Dart we are talking about, dying on left turns.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w

Certainly a bit of hyperbole to say that it risks a wreck. I usually wait to see if the driver in front of me has started moving before I accelerate. I've experienced drivers at red lights not paying attention when it turned green. I've stalled before driving a stick and haven't been rear ended yet. Heck, one time I remember seeing a driver who feel asleep at a red light and it only resulted in a lot of honking trying to wake up the driver. I was told this was probably an automated brake system that kept the brakes applied until the gas was applied.


Put aside your personal behaviour for a second and think about how others might drive. I'm thinking more of somebody in a left turn lane who creeps out behind somebody else, stops in the intersection and then it doesn't restart, which could potentially cause a collision with oncoming traffic.
 
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by PimTac
But, it will not be dead if you remove your foot off the brake. The engine will be running before you get your foot onto the gas pedal.

You hope. Because your betting a wreck if it doesn't. Now, compare that to it not starting in your garage, or the parking lot at Wal-Mart.



That's really a silly statement. The things is-the exact same statements were made about ABS-"What if it fails or doesn't work properly?".

I'm sure maybe there are failures of ANY SYSTEM. But it's a percentage with many zeros behind the decimal point.

The "new tech phobia" is a regular occurrence here on BITOG.




Yes and the reality is most of this tech is a decade old or more.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by MNgopher
I figured out how to manipulate brake pressure within a day or two of driving it to get it to respond the way I wanted it to.

You shouldn't have to manipulate anything in order to get your brand new vehicle to drive the way you want it to... Or the way it should. If it didn't have that stupid system on it, people wouldn't have to. It seems people who have these things all complain about them in the same offbeat way...... "They're great! All you have to do is this, that, and the other thing. And your car will drive just like you never had it!"



Yes, because I have not ever once adapted my riving to the way a vehicle works. What a crock.

Under your logic, you'd drive an econobox the same way as a sports car, through a snowstorm to boot.

Every vehicle has its own charecteristics, and driving one of them means understanding that.
 
Ive disabled it on a F150 via ForScan because it was causing the two way radio to power cycle when the engine started back up. I wouldnt buy one with such stupidity or I would disable it if I had to.
 
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I guess the part that has me baffled is why would those of you who so strongly "hate" this system would purchase a vehicle so equipped in the first place. Apart from fleet users who might have such cars or trucks "forced" upon them, I assume that each of you got to test drive the vehicle in before buying it. I'm not asking this in some snotty, "why'd you do THAT" sense at all. Is this something that you don't really notice at first, and then it UN-grows on you, or is there something else going on? I guess I don't just don't see how people end up hating something that was obviously there all along when "that something" is something they could have passed upon at the outset.
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Originally Posted by ekpolk
I guess the part that has me baffled is why would those of you who so strongly "hate" this system would purchase a vehicle so equipped in the first place. Apart from fleet users who might have such cars or trucks "forced" upon them, I assume that each of you got to test drive the vehicle in before buying it. I'm not asking this in some snotty, "why'd you do THAT" sense at all. Is this something that you don't really notice at first, and then it UN-grows on you, or is there something else going on? I guess I don't just don't see how people end up hating something that was obviously there all along when "that something" is something they could have passed upon at the outset.
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The ones I've driven with it were rentals, when I was travelling for work. I'd never buy a vehicle with it.
 
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