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Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: dishdude] #5044625
03/16/19 04:51 AM
03/16/19 04:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,436
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,436
Virginia
Originally Posted by dishdude
It's the future, no use fighting it. Soon we'll be all EV, so buy a big American V8 and enjoy it while you can!



There's another name for that phenomenon ^^^^^^^

And it is not really a good thing.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5044628
03/16/19 05:13 AM
03/16/19 05:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,468
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,468
NY
I hated it in anything I drove or road in that had it. As long as there is a way to disable it I'll learn to live with it once the time comes that I have to buy into the technology.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5044638
03/16/19 06:15 AM
03/16/19 06:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
I wouldn't own a car with it, unless it could be disabled. Either by pressing a button on the dash, or permanently by one of these:

https://www.smartstopstart.com/

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: dave1251] #5044639
03/16/19 06:17 AM
03/16/19 06:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,558
Michigan
MrHorspwer Offline
MrHorspwer  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,558
Michigan
Originally Posted by dave1251
Also whomever states it increases fuel economy by 10% should hire me as their financial adviser and give me complete power of attorney. I will not leave them broke but I will charge fee of about 88% of gains.


https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

Quote
All three of our test subjects delivered the estimated 10 percent in city traffic. People who live in particularly tough traffic areas with long wait times could do even better.


That's more testing than I'll ever do and probably more than anyone on this forum would do. As they have no agenda to influence the results one way or the other, I'm gonna believe their results over some rando's opinion on a forum.

Opine all you'd like about battery and starter longevity, but the fact that it delivers fuel economy gains is pretty indisputable. If you find it annoying enough to ignore these gains for your comfort, well, that's between you and your wallet.

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5044682
03/16/19 08:22 AM
03/16/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 951
N. Georgia Mtns
Sierra048 Offline
Sierra048  Offline

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 951
N. Georgia Mtns
JMO,

But just like the mandated TPMS on all cars, It's just a solution looking for a problem. Not interested.


2014 Nissan Frontier
2014 GMC Sierra 1500
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: MrHorspwer] #5044696
03/16/19 08:34 AM
03/16/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

There is always 2 sides to every story. Here is what many people who own them have to say after dealing with them over time. It's not all about saving a few pennies in gas.

"Unfortunately this feature is not well designed on many of today's vehicles. Many owners have complained about:

•Restart delay when pressing the gas pedal.
•Vibration when the vehicle restarts.
•Vehicle roll back on hills when shifting from the brake to the gas pedal.
•Heating and cooling systems change the temperature noticeably when the engine turns off.
•Nuisance stops and starts during maneuvers like parking.
•Anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart.
•Startled or angry pedestrians when engine restarts in front of them.
•Concerns about the added wear on their on the vehicle with thousands of additional restarts.
•Battery replacement intervals being reduced considerably.

Then their is just the general frustration of having this 'nanny' feature forced on you in your vehicle you otherwise love!"

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5044836
03/16/19 11:25 AM
03/16/19 11:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,485
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,485
Lakeville, MN
Have it on my 2016 F150. 3 years and 41,000 miles in. Love it.

If you live anywhere with stoplights and stop and go traffic, it will save fuel.

I figured out how to manipulate brake pressure within a day or two of driving it to get it to respond the way I wanted it to.

As to the long litany of complaints about the systems, virtually every complaint has been accounted for and dealt with. Not worth the time responding how.


Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: dave1251] #5044838
03/16/19 11:27 AM
03/16/19 11:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,485
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,485
Lakeville, MN
Originally Posted by dave1251
Dislike it in the work F150's and the poster can cross Ford off of his list because there is no disable button on the F150.


Must of missed the giant button on top of the center sack with the A in a circle then. Putting the truck in tow haul also disables it.

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: buck91] #5044874
03/16/19 12:03 PM
03/16/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,606
Utah
CKN Offline
CKN  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,606
Utah
Originally Posted by buck91
I despise the auto stop/start in our 2018 F150. Not sure how much it saves on the EPA track but many owners have reported no MPG loss when switching off. Myself, I see it as nothing more than a liability. How much sooner will the battery or starter require replacement? What are all those stop/run cycles doing for engine wear? What if it doesn't start when I need it to? Does the extra stress it puts on the battery reflect in shorter alternator life?

If there was a clear, or better yet significant, MPG benefit we could talk... but there isn't.


Good questions but the start/stop systems are built much differently than normal starters. I think most of your points are not applicable...since they are not just slapping on these components. It's a whole system designed to perform under the conditions of start/stop.

Last edited by CKN; 03/16/19 12:05 PM.
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: billt460] #5044881
03/16/19 12:12 PM
03/16/19 12:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,606
Utah
CKN Offline
CKN  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,606
Utah
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

There is always 2 sides to every story. Here is what many people who own them have to say after dealing with them over time. It's not all about saving a few pennies in gas.

"Unfortunately this feature is not well designed on many of today's vehicles. Many owners have complained about:

•Restart delay when pressing the gas pedal.
•Vibration when the vehicle restarts.
•Vehicle roll back on hills when shifting from the brake to the gas pedal.
•Heating and cooling systems change the temperature noticeably when the engine turns off.
•Nuisance stops and starts during maneuvers like parking.
•Anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart.
•Startled or angry pedestrians when engine restarts in front of them.
•Concerns about the added wear on their on the vehicle with thousands of additional restarts.
•Battery replacement intervals being reduced considerably.

Then their is just the general frustration of having this 'nanny' feature forced on you in your vehicle you otherwise love!"

Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it. Edmund's was once a great site-it's no longer so. The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.

Last edited by CKN; 03/16/19 12:13 PM.
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: CKN] #5044888
03/16/19 12:22 PM
03/16/19 12:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,001
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,001
...
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

There is always 2 sides to every story. Here is what many people who own them have to say after dealing with them over time. It's not all about saving a few pennies in gas.

"Unfortunately this feature is not well designed on many of today's vehicles. Many owners have complained about:

•Restart delay when pressing the gas pedal.
•Vibration when the vehicle restarts.
•Vehicle roll back on hills when shifting from the brake to the gas pedal.
•Heating and cooling systems change the temperature noticeably when the engine turns off.
•Nuisance stops and starts during maneuvers like parking.
•Anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart.
•Startled or angry pedestrians when engine restarts in front of them.
•Concerns about the added wear on their on the vehicle with thousands of additional restarts.
•Battery replacement intervals being reduced considerably.

Then their is just the general frustration of having this 'nanny' feature forced on you in your vehicle you otherwise love!"

Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it. Edmund's was once a great site-it's no longer so. The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.





The settings on these systems seem to be set at a short intervals. I would like to see a longer setting like 5-10 seconds before the engine shuts off. In a Fiat van I rented with this system, it would do exactly like you said, shut off during parking maneuvers for example. I found that annoying. That van also shut off in the first several minutes while the engine was cold. The stop and restart during that time is not something I would prefer. It must depend on the system as I’ve heard most systems now do not activate until the engine is warmed up.

Of course, once I discovered the off button for that system that became part of the startup actions as long as I had it.

We all have the capability to do this already. It’s called the ignition. If you are at a train crossing with a long train, shut the car off. It’s our choice , not the computer.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: rocky8314] #5044901
03/16/19 12:33 PM
03/16/19 12:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,307
oh
roadrunner1 Offline
roadrunner1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,307
oh
My wife has an F150 with the 2.7, the auto start/stop works flawlessly. Maintaining cabin temp as it should, restarting when it should, and shutting off when it should. This truck has 55,000 mi. currently with zero issues. She likes the feature as her commute to work has several traffic lights and has become accustomed to the way the system operates.

Its almost unbelievable as to how quickly the restart happens, instant is an understatement.


'15 F350 6.7
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: PimTac] #5044904
03/16/19 12:38 PM
03/16/19 12:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,606
Utah
CKN Offline
CKN  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,606
Utah
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer
It's not me that says it, it's Edmunds. Three different cars each doing three loops on the same 106-mile test ride, one loop with start/stop disabled, one loop with start/stop enabled and A/C on, and one with start/stop enabled and A/C off.

There is always 2 sides to every story. Here is what many people who own them have to say after dealing with them over time. It's not all about saving a few pennies in gas.

"Unfortunately this feature is not well designed on many of today's vehicles. Many owners have complained about:

•Restart delay when pressing the gas pedal.
•Vibration when the vehicle restarts.
•Vehicle roll back on hills when shifting from the brake to the gas pedal.
•Heating and cooling systems change the temperature noticeably when the engine turns off.
•Nuisance stops and starts during maneuvers like parking.
•Anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart.
•Startled or angry pedestrians when engine restarts in front of them.
•Concerns about the added wear on their on the vehicle with thousands of additional restarts.
•Battery replacement intervals being reduced considerably.

Then their is just the general frustration of having this 'nanny' feature forced on you in your vehicle you otherwise love!"

Some of the above points are laughable. The best one is "anxiety as to whether the vehicle will restart." If that's true you should have the same feelings every time you turn off your car after you park it. Edmund's was once a great site-it's no longer so. The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.





The settings on these systems seem to be set at a short intervals. I would like to see a longer setting like 5-10 seconds before the engine shuts off. In a Fiat van I rented with this system, it would do exactly like you said, shut off during parking maneuvers for example. I found that annoying. That van also shut off in the first several minutes while the engine was cold. The stop and restart during that time is not something I would prefer. It must depend on the system as I’ve heard most systems now do not activate until the engine is warmed up.

Of course, once I discovered the off button for that system that became part of the startup actions as long as I had it.

We all have the capability to do this already. It’s called the ignition. If you are at a train crossing with a long train, shut the car off. It’s our choice , not the computer.



Yep-there have been a few posts on here about guys not liking ABS-a system which there are no downsides. If there was the ability to turn that off-that would affect the safety of everyone around them. Guys who change their own oil seem to be control freaks-it's about "choice" not about what saves fuel or makes driving inherently safer.

Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: CKN] #5044942
03/16/19 01:58 PM
03/16/19 01:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,427
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
ekpolk Offline
Global Moderator
ekpolk  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,427
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
Originally Posted by CKN
. . . The next one is "startled or angry pedestrians-" REALLY? The biggest issue IMHO (that has been addressed by the FEDS) is almost being run over in parking lots by hybrid cars running only on electricity. You can't hear them.
Why am I picturing a sanctimonious, self-righteous Jill Claybrook when I read about those "startled [mentally insufficient] pedestrians"??? Great points, though. As you suggest, the Feds have already addressed the issue of uber-stealthy, homicidal hybrids. Yep, you guessed it, they're now required to emanate "artificial car noise" so as to protect witless pedestrians who are insufficiently aware to take care of their own safety.* The system even has a name: vehicle proximity notification system! If this gem makes its way into the Auto-SS vehicles, then you'll have a system to save you from the system that's saving you from wasting gas!!! Brave new world??? More like Chicken new world!

* Yes, I've seen it -- there's actually a little speaker in front of the radiator, between the two horns, that emanates the artificial car noise! I'd so love to replace the phony "polite car approaching" sound with that of a straight-pipe Harley!!! laugh


18 Prius Two-Eco (L-Ion Batt), Mag Grey, 4000 miles (M1 AFE 0W-20).
07 Avalon XLS, Cassis Pearl, only 70k miles (M1 EP 5w-30).
04 Prius, Black, 200k miles (M1 EP 5w-30). 2006-2019 --RIP 😥
Re: Auto Stop Start [Re: MNgopher] #5044995
03/16/19 03:07 PM
03/16/19 03:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,033
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by MNgopher
I figured out how to manipulate brake pressure within a day or two of driving it to get it to respond the way I wanted it to.

You shouldn't have to manipulate anything in order to get your brand new vehicle to drive the way you want it to... Or the way it should. If it didn't have that stupid system on it, people wouldn't have to. It seems people who have these things all complain about them in the same offbeat way...... "They're great! All you have to do is this, that, and the other thing. And your car will drive just like you never had it!"

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