Dodge Hemi Lifter/Cam failures

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Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
My dealer has done a few, though none of the tech's I've spoken to refer to it as "common".

Cue burla, as he's all over this.

Also worth mentioning: They've never done one, or heard of it happening on the SRT 6.4L, despite the lifters being the same part #.....


I'm not sold on it being a lifter problem, The surface hardening or lack-of on the Camshaft is where my theory lies. Every Hemi failure I've seen is on a Cast Iron core (Selectively Austempered Ductile Iron) which is a fancy way of saying Cast Iron with hardened work surfaces.

Pre-MDS 5.7L Hemi's used 5150 Billet lobes & journals pressed onto a hollow tube. I had a isolated incident with with one of these on a Mopar Performance Crate engine......Number 3 cam bearing was installed/clocked incorrectly from the factory, Starving the journal of oil. The cam journal seized to the bearing causing the journal to break loose from the tube.....Not before shearing the cam gear locating dowel causing the cam gear to rotate about 30 degrees out of time.
Mopar warrantied the engine!


I wonder where they are sourcing the cam cores? I was reading an article some time ago about companies (I assumed aftermarket) using cheap SADI cores from third world countries. In the lower production higher performance engine they may be using a higher quality domestically produced core. Just a thought.
 
Originally Posted by Danno
Originally Posted by 4WD


Originally Posted by Danno
I work at a Ram dealership. I'll ask the service manager on his experience.


Lots of Dodge vehicles in your BITOG Signature and you will ask an insider ?
Clinebarger is one of the top ten members here IMO … don't disappoint him/us …


Huh?

Sounds like you're insulting me...

I'll just withdraw my offer.


You work at at RAM dealer and you list 5 Asian cars in your sig? Some might find that amusing. Lots of guys here would remember when that wouldn't be tolerated.

Don't be butt hurt.
 
My neighbor is on his 3rd 5.7 the first 2 had high miles and no issues just to throw some more experiences in it, he runs whatever bulk conventional the dealer or quick-lube place throws in at 5w20. I think when you compare the failures to the amount of these engines they sell it's quite low. It just sounds like a ton of failures because we hear about them on various forums but there aren't forums dedicated to all the ones that didn't so it skews the view.

I'd buy one no problem.
 
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Dodge and Plymouth should bring back the 318 cu. That is meant to be blown with a whipple. Way better than that 5.7.
 
Originally Posted by AZjeff
You work at at RAM dealer and you list 5 Asian cars in your sig? Some might find that amusing. Lots of guys here would remember when that wouldn't be tolerated.
Yeah, that was then. These days, people change jobs more often than they change cars.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by Danno
Originally Posted by 4WD


Originally Posted by Danno
I work at a Ram dealership. I'll ask the service manager on his experience.


Lots of Dodge vehicles in your BITOG Signature and you will ask an insider ?
Clinebarger is one of the top ten members here IMO … don't disappoint him/us …


Huh?

Sounds like you're insulting me...

I'll just withdraw my offer.


You work at at RAM dealer and you list 5 Asian cars in your sig? Some might find that amusing. Lots of guys here would remember when that wouldn't be tolerated.

Don't be butt hurt.
I'm reading the 5 Asian cars in his sig as more of a commentary on the state of Mopar under FCA ownership (which is where this thread started). I would like to hear the Ram dealer comments too, because I've been looking at older Hemi powered 2500 pickups to replace the GMC in my sig-I don't want to pay good $ for a bigger hunk of carp than I already have!!
 
Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
It's a common issue but just uncommon enough that owners downplay it. It's the MDS lifters/lobes that fail.

GM has similar problems with engines losing lifters/cams in their DOD engines. But they usually seem to hold up longer. Funny though, LS engines were usually getting 200k easy before maybe a roller lifter might start to have a problem. Ah, the good old days. I'm glad my CTS-V doesn't have any of that B S cylinder shut down lifter nonsense,


From what I've read, it has happened on the non-MDS 5.7L as well and on the MDS ones, has occurred on the non-MDS lobes/lifters. So I don't believe it's the same issue that's afflicting the GM AFM engines.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
My dealer has done a few, though none of the tech's I've spoken to refer to it as "common".

Cue burla, as he's all over this.

Also worth mentioning: They've never done one, or heard of it happening on the SRT 6.4L, despite the lifters being the same part #.....


I'm not sold on it being a lifter problem, The surface hardening or lack-of on the Camshaft is where my theory lies. Every Hemi failure I've seen is on a Cast Iron core (Selectively Austempered Ductile Iron) which is a fancy way of saying Cast Iron with hardened work surfaces.

Pre-MDS 5.7L Hemi's used 5150 Billet lobes & journals pressed onto a hollow tube. I had a isolated incident with with one of these on a Mopar Performance Crate engine......Number 3 cam bearing was installed/clocked incorrectly from the factory, Starving the journal of oil. The cam journal seized to the bearing causing the journal to break loose from the tube.....Not before shearing the cam gear locating dowel causing the cam gear to rotate about 30 degrees out of time.
Mopar warrantied the engine!


I wonder where they are sourcing the cam cores? I was reading an article some time ago about companies (I assumed aftermarket) using cheap SADI cores from third world countries. In the lower production higher performance engine they may be using a higher quality domestically produced core. Just a thought.


Certainly possible Trav.

I compared the part numbers for the main components recently in another thread on this issue and my findings were:
- The 5.7L, 6.4L, 6.4L SRT all share the same lifters
- All three engines have different camshafts
- The 5.7L and 6.4L "truck" engine have the same valve springs, the 6.4L SRT engine has different ones.
 
You got that right.

If NASCAR can still use pushrods, carbs, half the tires, double the weight, and nip at these open fender toys' track times, that's good enough for any vehicle on the street.

Oh wait - some of us need to be told how to drive and change lanes by an electronic voice.


Originally Posted by Kode
Dodge and Plymouth should bring back the 318 cu. That is meant to be blown with a whipple. Way better than that 5.7.
 
Originally Posted by Kode
Dodge and Plymouth should bring back the 318 cu. That is meant to be blown with a whipple. Way better than that 5.7.


The only thing the 318's had going for it was being relatively indestructible. Then again, it's hard to be unreliable when you have an engine not making any power to begin with in stock form. A blown 5.7 will wipe the floor with a blown 318.
 
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Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Valve float wouldn't surprise me. A lot of the factory valve gear being used by the OEMs is kinda sorry.



Yeah, and I haven't heard of it happening on low mileage engines either, which would make sense if the springs are marginal in the first place. The lifters are likely not tolerant of valve float, which explains why the 6.4L, with presumably heavier springs, isn't having the issue. Once a lifter is damaged and stops rolling, things go south reasonably quickly.
 
Folks,

I value your opinions!

I have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the 5.7 Hemi...108k miles. The dealer had changed the oil for the first 100k and I have done it since. First was Redline 5w-20 and Royal Purple oil filter...last change was Penzoil Ultra Platinum and Royal Purple filter.

Anything else I can do to keep this engine well lubricated and running great?
 
Originally Posted by dawgn86
Folks,

I value your opinions!

I have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the 5.7 Hemi...108k miles. The dealer had changed the oil for the first 100k and I have done it since. First was Redline 5w-20 and Royal Purple oil filter...last change was Penzoil Ultra Platinum and Royal Purple filter.

Anything else I can do to keep this engine well lubricated and running great?



Assuming it doesn't make any unusual noises, I'd just keep doing what you are doing. I'm running M1 EP 0w-20 with the FRAM Ultra on our 5.7L and a variety of 0w-40's, also using a FRAM Ultra, on the SRT. If it's valve spring related, no oil is going to have any appreciable impact on it happening. Given that the non-SRT 6.4L engines also spec 0w-40 and the same issue has happened with them, this reinforces that.

Something is causing the lifters to stop rolling and subsequently go into "flat tappet" mode, which will wear rapidly and fail. Whether this is fine particulate that bungs up the roller or whether it is valve float that impacts the roller, stopping it from rolling, or some other phenomenon, it's not common enough to warrant a recall and the telltale sign appears to be some significant noise coming from the engine.
 
It has a tick on startup that goes away after about 15 seconds or if I push down on the exhaust manifold shield..thinking its a broken exhaust stud...other than that, it runs and drives great.
 
Originally Posted by dawgn86
It has a tick on startup that goes away after about 15 seconds or if I push down on the exhaust manifold shield..thinking its a broken exhaust stud...other than that, it runs and drives great.


Sounds like the typical exhaust manifold stud failure, so I concur with your diagnosis.
 
Originally Posted by GMguy84
What a shame was REALLY interested in a 2011+ Hemi police pkg as a future daily. But heard/read nothing but bad things about the "hemi cam lifter issues" and most of the surplus auctions have them listed as "engine issues"


Dave

Texas Highway Patrol stopped ordering Chargers because of this issue. They are seeing issues at 100k.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by AZjeff
You work at at RAM dealer and you list 5 Asian cars in your sig? Some might find that amusing. Lots of guys here would remember when that wouldn't be tolerated.
Yeah, that was then. These days, people change jobs more often than they change cars.
smile.gif


Especially on the dealer level. I own three Fords and work at a Chevy dealer...and we have customers who work at the Honda plant and drive new GMs.
21.gif
 
Got the authorization to tear it down late, Will start on it Monday morning.

Cylinder #5 Intake lifter/cam lobe has the issue on this one, #5 IS NOT a MDS cylinder. The 2009 I did before this had the issue on #6 Intake & #6 IS a MDS cylinder.
 
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Got the authorization to tear it down late, Will start on it Monday morning.

Cylinder #5 Intake lifter/cam lobe has the issue on this one, #5 IS NOT a MDS cylinder. The 2009 I did before this had the issue on #6 Intake & #6 IS a MDS cylinder.






This is consistent with what I've heard/read. It is not isolated to the MDS lobes, it can happen on either, which points to it not being lifter specific, which is contrary to the situation with the GM AFM.
 
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