'18 escape 2L EB >10% fuel dilution

[pb]

Con't of my 2L ecoboost saga....http://tinyurl.com/y2lxwxm4
IOLM showed 24% remaining but HAD to change because the oil level was over the max mark on dipstick. This was a first for me. Others have asked if I'd noticed the level increase over the duration and to be honest I probably didn't pull the dipstick once I was ready to do the o/c. However I paid closer attention to the different markings on the dipstick, all designed for this condition, as I refilled putting the oil level at the lower end of the crosshatch "normal" range.
And for whatever reason OAI again selected "diesel engine" where I clearly noted the sample from a gasoline, perhaps to get me that >5% FD reading?

2018 escape 2.0L ecoboost, 2nd o/c, 75% highway, TG3614. Oil in use for 7 months.
Refilled with M1EP 5w30 and TG3614.

Code


OIL M1 5W30

MILES IN USE 7600

O&F CHANGED Y

MILES 14.4K

MAKEUP OIL 0

IOLM 24%

SAMPLE TAKEN 7-MAR-2019

LAB OAI (sev 4)



IRON 12

CHROMIUM 0

NICKEL 0

ALUMINIUM 4

COPPER 9

LEAD 0

TIN 0

CADMIUM 0

SILVER 0

VANADIUM 0

SILICON 18

SODIUM 2

POTASSIUM 1

TITANIUM 0

MOLYBDENUM 59

ANTIMONY 0

MANGANESE 1

LITHIUM 0

BORON 29

MAGNESIUM 481

CALCIUM 941

BARIUM 0

PHOSPHORUS 529

ZINC 567





WATER 0

cSt @ 212ºF 6.7

FUEL >10%

TAN 2.73

TBN 3.26

OXIDATION 19

NITRATION 13

 

[Whimsey]

Wow! that's an unbelievably high fuel dilution. Your cst is getting to the lower end of a 20 wt oil yet the wear material looks ok. Did you remote start it frequently and let it idle during the winter? Perhaps you have a mechanical issue with an injector or too high of fuel pressure. Did the lab say anything about this?

Whimsey

 

[Whimsey]

We have a 2017 2.3 EB Explorer and last winter while using Mobil 1 5W-30 for 6,200 miles the oil JUST went into the very upper 20 wt range and the flash point was just at the minimum. Blackstone was showing trace fuel dilution, I know their's is interpretative and not actual gc readings. And yes, my wife was using the remote start frequently for maybe 10 minutes at a time. I'll be very interested in what is causing such a drastic fuel dilution.

Whimsey

 

[PimTac]

Is this a Blackstone report?

I would get the vehicle checked out. That seems way too high for fuel dilution. We've had members post analysis that was never that high and they admitted to a lot of idling and cold weather short trips.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Whimsey
We have a 2017 2.3 EB Explorer and last winter while using Mobil 1 5W-30 for 6,200 miles the oil JUST went into the very upper 20 wt range and the flash point was just at the minimum. Blackstone was showing trace fuel dilution, I know their's is interpretative and not actual gc readings. And yes, my wife was using the remote start frequently for maybe 10 minutes at a time. I'll be very interested in what is causing such a drastic fuel dilution.

Whimsey




The members here know that Blackstone is usually very conservative with their FD numbers based on their insufficient testing model. If Blackstone is reporting over 10% then I wonder what the real number is?

Or maybe Blackstone changed testing methods?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Instead of refilling with more 5w30 alone, fight the fuel dilution the best you can by filling to the Add line with 5w30, then put in 1 pint of Schaeffer Moly EP #132, an oil thickener made out of decent base oils and a little antimony, other stuff I can't remember from some old analyses I saw. Amazon.com it.
Either that or put in 3 quarts Mobil1 5w30 with 1 quart of Mobil1 15w50, do not fill above about halfway between Add & Full lines.

We can debate how much fuel dilution there is. The 6.7 kv100 is getting too low. Good iron ppm anyway, not bad.

 

[Env1ous]

IS there any TSB or updates for your ECU for the fuel dilution?

When you can, do you run it hard to get temps up to help burn off the fuel or do you drive it slow?

 

[Env1ous]

Sorry, read your post again. At 75% highway you should be getting up to temp without an issue. I wonder if you have a leaky injector or something.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Whimsey
We have a 2017 2.3 EB Explorer and last winter while using Mobil 1 5W-30 for 6,200 miles the oil JUST went into the very upper 20 wt range and the flash point was just at the minimum. Blackstone was showing trace fuel dilution, I know their's is interpretative and not actual gc readings. And yes, my wife was using the remote start frequently for maybe 10 minutes at a time. I'll be very interested in what is causing such a drastic fuel dilution.

Whimsey




The members here know that Blackstone is usually very conservative with their FD numbers based on their insufficient testing model. If Blackstone is reporting over 10% then I wonder what the real number is?

Or maybe Blackstone changed testing methods?


The report listed lists the lab as "OAI", which should be Oil Analyzers, Inc. It uses gas chromotography for fuel dilution. OAI typically does not report values over 5%, so the >10% value is puzzling. If they believe they're testing a diesel sample, maybe values over 5% are reported, but I wonder if this messes with the % value.

In any event, viscosity looks way low, but wear metals seem OK. This whole FD issue is frustrating: it should produce lousy wear results but doesn't seem to unless dilution gets really out of hand.

 

[demarpaint]

Something isn't right, I would get it checked out and documented.

 

[KGMtech]

Get to dealer ASAP. If only to have it on record for any potential damage to engine down the road... such as: past warranty.

As others said, 75% highway is optimum situation to prevent gasoline dilution. Is your fuel economy meeting the standard for this car?

 

[Triple_Se7en]

In looking at your add-pack numbers, they look pretty weak for M1 standards. Even if this is SN Plus, it still looks weak.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Instead of refilling with more 5w30 alone, fight the fuel dilution the best you can by filling to the Add line with 5w30, then put in 1 pint of Schaeffer Moly EP #132, an oil thickener made out of decent base oils and a little antimony, other stuff I can't remember from some old analyses I saw. Amazon.com it.
Either that or put in 3 quarts Mobil1 5w30 with 1 quart of Mobil1 15w50, do not fill above about halfway between Add & Full lines.

We can debate how much fuel dilution there is. The 6.7 kv100 is getting too low. Good iron ppm anyway, not bad.



You contradicted your post by stating its too low but the wear metals are not out of line. Did you design and test the engine thus have knowledge what viscosity is too low to protect the engine during operation?

 

[Danh]

P
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Instead of refilling with more 5w30 alone, fight the fuel dilution the best you can by filling to the Add line with 5w30, then put in 1 pint of Schaeffer Moly EP #132, an oil thickener made out of decent base oils and a little antimony, other stuff I can't remember from some old analyses I saw. Amazon.com it.
Either that or put in 3 quarts Mobil1 5w30 with 1 quart of Mobil1 15w50, do not fill above about halfway between Add & Full lines.

We can debate how much fuel dilution there is. The 6.7 kv100 is getting too low. Good iron ppm anyway, not bad.



You contradicted your post by stating its too low but the wear metals are not out of line. Did you design and test the engine thus have knowledge what viscosity is too low to protect the engine during operation?


Well, Ford specs a 5w-30 for this engine and this sample is not even a 20-weight. So if Ford thinks a 5w-30 is needed a sub-20 weight may not be optimal.

 

[MParr]

My 2017 never sees the oil level creep up on the dipstick. I have never even smelled fuel in the oil. Of course, I never go by that stupid oil life monitor. I do 5,000 OCI with a filter change. My Escape doesn't see a lot of short trips or idle time. To top it off, I disable the auto-start/stop feature just as soon as I remember.

 

[deven]

Geez people are going to scare the crap out of OP. Just keep doing what you are. For 7500 miles on oil and 14,400 on the engine that is a fabulous report minus the fuel dilution. Just keep doing UOA's to keep an eye on the fuel dilution. People here overreact way too much.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Danh
P
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Instead of refilling with more 5w30 alone, fight the fuel dilution the best you can by filling to the Add line with 5w30, then put in 1 pint of Schaeffer Moly EP #132, an oil thickener made out of decent base oils and a little antimony, other stuff I can't remember from some old analyses I saw. Amazon.com it.
Either that or put in 3 quarts Mobil1 5w30 with 1 quart of Mobil1 15w50, do not fill above about halfway between Add & Full lines.

We can debate how much fuel dilution there is. The 6.7 kv100 is getting too low. Good iron ppm anyway, not bad.



You contradicted your post by stating its too low but the wear metals are not out of line. Did you design and test the engine thus have knowledge what viscosity is too low to protect the engine during operation?


Well, Ford specs a 5w-30 for this engine and this sample is not even a 20-weight. So if Ford thinks a 5w-30 is needed a sub-20 weight may not be optimal.


Yes, dave1251 is confused. The way HTHS correlates with engine wear, there is a cliff it falls off of. Non-linear, very.
Get HTHS too low, and wear increases dramatically at some point.
And yes, Ford specs HTHS 3.0 (approximately), which tells us Ford isn't comfortable going down much lower than that.
For this ecoboost, add a little more hard driving, with some hot weather potentially, and that fuel dilution can then cause a lot of extra wear.
Margin is important.
Rings appear to be the most sensitive though.
See the graph below, telling the story of Stribeck Curve physics:

From another thread recently:
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
...... increased wear can occur for oils that are less than 2.6 HTHS when oil temperature gets elevated some. But it also says if you are using a 20 wt you really have no headroom, but are right at the verge of having more engine wear is the oil temps start to rise above "normal".

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by deven
Geez people are going to scare the crap out of OP. Just keep doing what you are. For 7500 miles on oil and 14,400 on the engine that is a fabulous report minus the fuel dilution. Just keep doing UOA's to keep an eye on the fuel dilution. People here overreact way too much.




Who is scaring anyone here? The advice has been prudent. If the OP gets it checked by the dealer then there is documentation on the fuel dilution. If a real problem is discovered like a faulty injector then he gets it fixed under warranty and early on rather than waiting for something possibly to happen.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by deven
Geez people are going to scare the crap out of OP. Just keep doing what you are. For 7500 miles on oil and 14,400 on the engine that is a fabulous report minus the fuel dilution. Just keep doing UOA's to keep an eye on the fuel dilution. People here overreact way too much.




Who is scaring anyone here? The advice has been prudent. If the OP gets it checked by the dealer then there is documentation on the fuel dilution. If a real problem is discovered like a faulty injector then he gets it fixed under warranty and early on rather than waiting for something possibly to happen.


We are talking about the dealer here. They will just look at him in a puzzling way and say everything is normal and that its just designed that way. If it doesn't throw a code then they aint doing diddly squat let alone something like fuel injectors. That's why dealers frustrate me.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Leaky injector is a real possibility here. A good dealership service advisor would know that given the amount of fuel dilution. This is high.