Detailed List of Motorcycle Oils (around 15W-40 or thicker characteristics)

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Originally Posted by alarmguy
No big deal, not at all, I always used either 15/40 diesel oil of Valvoine 20/50 4 stroke oil in my metrics, its just I am not seeing some of the ratings you are talking about in your spreadsheet, but then again, I have never checked any rating for diesel oil simply because they do not claim to meet Jaso (except Rotella which I did not like), as far as personal theories of non Jaso diesel oils meeting your requirements with other ratings that is personal decision and no problem with that and your certainly welcome to leave whatever you want off of your list.

I only checked one which I did use at times and I am not seeing the rating here that you have in your spreadsheet, example ...

Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 engine oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:

API CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 / SN
ACEA E9, E7
Caterpillar ECF-3
Cummins CES 20086, 20081
Isuzu DEO (w/ DPD-equipped vehicles)
JASO DH-2
MAN M 3275-1

Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 engine oil is approved by the following OEMs:

Detroit Fluids Specification 93K222
Deutz DQC II-10 LA
Mack EOS-4.5, EO-O Premium Plus
MB-Approval 228.31
Renault Trucks RLD-3
MAN M 3575
Volvo VDS-4.5, VDS-4



alarmguy,

I think that the HDEOs in the list used to claim to meet or exceed the Allison C4 spec, because that's the older version of their certification. The new version of their wet clutch certification is "Allison TES439". And even tho Mobil Delvac isn't claiming to meet this spec in that document, I feel like there is enough information out there to prove that the claim still exists.... like this one --> http://products.petrochoice.com/sys...MOMobil_Delvac_1300_Super.pdf?1442252535

I went to a couple auto part stores on the way home to check their bottles, and sure enough.... not ONE of them had the Alliston C4 spec on it. I just recently bought two bottles of old stock NAPA 15w-40, and it claims to meet Allison C4. I didn't even realize it at the time. I think I saw a couple of them with the TES439 spec, but I wasn't really paying attention since I didn't know what it was at the time. I've seen people post about buying all the "old stock" oil they could find before the API CK-4 destroyed HDEOs.... but I'm really not quite sure why.

I must have Googled that old spec against older documents of those HDEOs. If they onced claimed to meet the C4 spec, I'll go ahead and assume for now that they now meet the TES439 spec, if not at least the claims of the old C4 spec. Still better than never making the claim to meet a wet clutch cert, like the Castrol GTX. I'll look have to double check this later, tho.
 
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Originally Posted by Bonz
Yeah, the moly in MC oils is the variety that is not gonna cause problems with the clutch. Redline MC oils are 350-450+ ppm on Moly in the UOA's around here.
And they are only JASO MA rated, not JASO MA2 rated. What that means could be anybody's guess, really. That info isn't actually published as to what is required to meet the certification is it?
 
Originally Posted by Bonz
Mobil 1 10w40 Racing 4T had a stellar performance for 4,603 miles last summer in high temp/higher rpm use in my ZRX 1200. Modded to around 145-150 hp and 85 ft/lbs. I like the torque and roll into it often, mashing the oil between the gears.
smile.gif
. Saw a number of 100 deg F days and fan came on in slow traffic as the temp gauge soared at high elevation. This oil flat out shifted as well as the day I put it in for the full OCI and had a TBN of 6.5 remaining. 11.98 cSt used vs 13.5 cSt new. One of the thinner 40 wt oils to start, but held up in about as tough a situation as it could.

Rotella T5 15w40 syn blend did really well also, stayed in grade at a cSt of 12.77 after 3,700 miles.

Mobil 1 15w50 was another good one. cSt of 13.32 after 4,090 miles.

Mystic JT8 15w50 cSt of 12.55 after 3200 miles, had lower flashpoint due to some fuel so suspect the cSt was just bit low from that.


Ssshhh, don't go spreading anything around about JT8, or we'll have to start paying extra for it
laugh.gif
 
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Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
Originally Posted by Bonz
Yeah, the moly in MC oils is the variety that is not gonna cause problems with the clutch. Redline MC oils are 350-450+ ppm on Moly in the UOA's around here.
And they are only JASO MA rated, not JASO MA2 rated. What that means could be anybody's guess, really. That info isn't actually published as to what is required to meet the certification is it?


JASO MA2 is a higher standard of MA for more modern bike engines, and formulated for motorcycles with a catalytic converter. JASO MA2 was introduced in 2006.

https://www.whitedogbikes.com/white...ke-oil-what-does-jaso-and-jaso-ma2-mean/

https://www.ducati.ms/forums/120-oi...ar-vs-catalytic-converter-longevity.html

My 2016 Yamaha XSR900 has a cat, yet the owner's manual says to use JASO MA, doesn't mention JASO MA2 anywhere.
 
Do a Google search for this Penrite oil bulletin (PDF). Can't seem to copy the direct link on my phone. It shows friction range test criteria that makes it MA or MA2.

Screenshot_2019-03-08-00-54-14.png
 
Originally Posted by BrocLuno
Originally Posted by Bonz
Mobil 1 10w40 Racing 4T had a stellar performance for 4,603 miles last summer in high temp/higher rpm use in my ZRX 1200. Modded to around 145-150 hp and 85 ft/lbs. I like the torque and roll into it often, mashing the oil between the gears.
smile.gif
. Saw a number of 100 deg F days and fan came on in slow traffic as the temp gauge soared at high elevation. This oil flat out shifted as well as the day I put it in for the full OCI and had a TBN of 6.5 remaining. 11.98 cSt used vs 13.5 cSt new. One of the thinner 40 wt oils to start, but held up in about as tough a situation as it could.

Rotella T5 15w40 syn blend did really well also, stayed in grade at a cSt of 12.77 after 3,700 miles.

Mobil 1 15w50 was another good one. cSt of 13.32 after 4,090 miles.

Mystic JT8 15w50 cSt of 12.55 after 3200 miles, had lower flashpoint due to some fuel so suspect the cSt was just bit low from that.


Ssshhh, don't go spreading anything around about JT8, or we'll have to start paying extra for it
laugh.gif






I tell ya .. $25/2 gallon jug is a bargain
laugh.gif
 
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The HDEO JASO MA/MA2 cert has always baffled me. Just those words on Rotella jugs has sold them probably millions of gallons of oil to powersports. And yes just about every forum or facebook group has someone smart enough to remind that they are just words not an actual cert...which causes even more muddy discussions.


Why none of the HDEO makers Shell/Mobil/Chevron do not pay the cost to get certified and put the nail in the coffin is beyond me.

If Supertech 15w40 would list JASO MA/MA2 they would not be able to keep the shelves stocked.. how is the cost of JASO cert not worth that kind of sales bump?
 
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
The HDEO JASO MA/MA2 cert has always baffled me. Just those words on Rotella jugs has sold them probably millions of gallons of oil to powersports. And yes just about every forum or facebook group has someone smart enough to remind that they are just words not an actual cert...which causes even more muddy discussions.


Why none of the HDEO makers Shell/Mobil/Chevron do not pay the cost to get certified and put the nail in the coffin is beyond me.

If Supertech 15w40 would list JASO MA/MA2 they would not be able to keep the shelves stocked.. how is the cost of JASO cert not worth that kind of sales bump?
Why pay more for the cert when it won't help them make more profit? Shell didn't pay for it and people buy it.... because people believe them. If they were lying about being capable of meeting those specs, then it would destroy them? So why buy the cert?

The only people it might help are the ones behind the creation of the cert -- Japanese motorcycle manufacturers. They pay for the cert, because NOBODY would buy their oil otherwise. But because they make a claim that their cert is needed for warranty purposes, people either buy their oil or think they need a different oil with the cert... and then the bike manufactures can void warranty claims saving far more money in the long run, even if they only sell a gallon per day in every state.

Any oil manufacturer already bottling their own oil could simply just make the claim, like Shell does, and then save the $400,000 certification costs or whatever it is. I just made up that price.... but it can't be cheap, otherwise all the HDEOs *would* be certified.
 
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Originally Posted by krismoriah72
The HDEO JASO MA/MA2 cert has always baffled me. Just those words on Rotella jugs has sold them probably millions of gallons of oil to powersports. And yes just about every forum or facebook group has someone smart enough to remind that they are just words not an actual cert...which causes even more muddy discussions.


It's a performance specification. So if an oil maker says it meets the spec, then it must have been tested against the spec and passed the requirements. It's just not "words" put on the bottle without something that allowed them to put those words on the bottle ... unless they are lying and that would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
The HDEO JASO MA/MA2 cert has always baffled me. Just those words on Rotella jugs has sold them probably millions of gallons of oil to powersports. And yes just about every forum or facebook group has someone smart enough to remind that they are just words not an actual cert...which causes even more muddy discussions.


It's a performance specification. So if an oil maker says it meets the spec, then it must have been tested against the spec and passed the requirements. It's just not "words" put on the bottle without something that allowed them to put those words on the bottle ... unless they are lying and that would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
Pretty sure that's not true. Most of them don't PAY for the test, therefore, do not go thru the official testing procedure.... which means almost none of them are certified (except for primarily the Japanese bike manufactures who invented the certification). They only claim to meet or exceed the specs of that cert, but it's likely only in-house testing that we have to have faith in.

EDIT:. Looked up the list of MC oils that are ACTUALLY certified by JASO, and the list of manufacturers is much larger than a post I'd seen on some forum, that was strictly a list of manufacturers only. But still... Shell ain't on the list.


http://jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

For sure, they do not pay. I'd have to believe that they sell more volume of "motorcycle oil" than anyone else, and will probly do even better with their new T6 15w-40.
 
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Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
The HDEO JASO MA/MA2 cert has always baffled me. Just those words on Rotella jugs has sold them probably millions of gallons of oil to powersports. And yes just about every forum or facebook group has someone smart enough to remind that they are just words not an actual cert...which causes even more muddy discussions.

It's a performance specification. So if an oil maker says it meets the spec, then it must have been tested against the spec and passed the requirements. It's just not "words" put on the bottle without something that allowed them to put those words on the bottle ... unless they are lying and that would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
Pretty sure that's not true. Most of them don't PAY for the test, therefore, do not go thru the official testing procedure.... and are not certified. They only claim to meet our exceed the specs of that cert, but it's likely only in-house testing that we have to have faith in.


Still doesn't mean they couldn't be sued if they are falsifying their claims that it meets the spec. Oil companies check up on each other to make sure they are all telling the truth about their performance claims. So you're going to doubt every spec ever put on every bottle of major oil brand in the world?

How do you even know there is an official "certification process" that needs to be paid for and done by a 3rd party to make the claim? Could be if it's done in house per an official JASO procedure and JASO looks at the test results they say it can be shown to meet the specs. The only specs I see that need to be met are those 3 friction tests listed in that Penrite bulletin.
 
Originally Posted by AtomicNumber53
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
The HDEO JASO MA/MA2 cert has always baffled me. Just those words on Rotella jugs has sold them probably millions of gallons of oil to powersports. And yes just about every forum or facebook group has someone smart enough to remind that they are just words not an actual cert...which causes even more muddy discussions.


It's a performance specification. So if an oil maker says it meets the spec, then it must have been tested against the spec and passed the requirements. It's just not "words" put on the bottle without something that allowed them to put those words on the bottle ... unless they are lying and that would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
Pretty sure that's not true. Most of them don't PAY for the test, therefore, do not go thru the official testing procedure.... which means almost none of them are certified (except for primarily the Japanese bike manufactures who invented the certification). They only claim to meet or exceed the specs of that cert, but it's likely only in-house testing that we have to have faith in.

EDIT:. Looked up the list of MC oils that are ACTUALLY certified by JASO, and the list of manufacturers is much larger than a post I'd seen on some forum, that was strictly a list of manufacturers only. But still... Shell ain't on the list.


http://jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

For sure, they do not pay. I'd have to believe that they sell more volume of "motorcycle oil" than anyone else, and will probly do even better with their new T6 15w-40.


Every forum eventually ends up with AMSOIL...not on the list

"AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Power Sports Oil is wet-clutch compatible and contains no friction modifiers, making it ideal for both two- and four-stroke ATV transmissions. The friction-modifier-free formulation is designed to prevent clutch slippage, helping deliver maximum torque and power to the wheels - a critical feature for towing or high-horsepower engines. It meets the frictional requirements of JASO MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2"

"Use AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil in Can-Am*, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW*, Triumph* and other motorcycles where 10W-40 motorcycle oil is required. API SM, JASO MA/MA2 "

I am curious to the T6 15w40 as well. its in my sump now just on blind faith... and yes i will feel much better once i see a VOA.. I dont care that its not on JASOs list.. Rotella has never let me down. T4/T5 and T6.

I have also used Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 on blind faith.. and was happy with it.
 
Came across abrand called HAWGBLUD 20W50 for motorcycles with shared sumps. $59 a gallon from Amazon. PAO/Ester blend.
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
Came across abrand called HAWGBLUD 20W50 for motorcycles with shared sumps. $59 a gallon from Amazon. PAO/Ester blend.

Looks promising... I'd be way more interested in their other oils, tho. If only they had a TDS / PDS with their oils' specs. . . .
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
Came across abrand called HAWGBLUD 20W50 for motorcycles with shared sumps. $59 a gallon from Amazon. PAO/Ester blend.


Fwiw, I didn't see a 20w50 on their website? In the "4 stroke racing engine oil" 10w40, 10w50, 15w50 are showing and they are for shared sumps. Says Hawgblud as been replaced by the "Power Sport series" in the above weights. Only 20w50 they have is in their "racing engine oil" says not suitable for shared sumps.
 
Is anyone here familiar with the MC oils from Amalie and have any info on them?



I've been using the Amalie 20w50 in my dads Yamaha RoyalStar 1300 but generally only before he goes on a long road trip, for just regular riding I put in Rotella T4


the Amalie seems to hold up pretty well.




oh and any info on the Quiksilver oils?
 
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