Ethiopian ET302 Crash.

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is the big worry right at the moment but it's still early to judge. With the recent Lion Air crash still on people's minds and now this one that may have similar circumstances I'm sure the midnight oil is burning at Boeing HQ in Chicago. (notice I said may)

The FDR and CVR will be crucial here and hopefully they can be recovered and be usable. The crash site is horrendous as one might guess with a high speed impact and with plenty of fuel.
 
I think we talked a bit about the 737 MAX flight control system in the Lion Air thread.

Too early to tell anything, but I will say this: if faced with a flight control problem, I'm not troubleshooting in the air. I will do what I need to get the airplane in a safe configuration to land and NO MORE.

I'm going to land it and let maintenance figure it out.

Back in the days when I had an ejection seat, I would fiddle with stuff in the air and give our guys all the data points and analysis they needed to fix the airplane the first time.

These days, I don't do that.

Lion Air pilots did that...they fiddled with the MACS over and over to try and get it to work. The previous flight, the mishap airplane had a problem, and the crew did some in flight troubleshooting and continued on to destination.

Crazy.

I think that in the course of investigation and cause, that we, of BITOG, will cover a lot of the same concepts we did in the Lion Air thread:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4908879/1

Limits of flight control authority, ability to over-ride systems, systems engineering philosophy, training, startle response, judgement...
 
Last edited:
An observation, after reading some reports and watching a bit of the news on this it seems to me that the crash site has not been secured very well. A lot of people are going in and disturbing or even removing vital evidence. This may not be a surprise in this part of the world. I hope the impact of this does not affect the investigation.
 
I just found out that a good friend of mine, her colleague was on that flight
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
I just found out that a good friend of mine, her colleague was on that flight
frown.gif



I am so very sorry to hear of her loss.
 
Last edited:
Very sorry to hear that Overkill.



News is reporting that China and Indonesia have both ordered all 737-8 Max operations halted.
 
I was talking to a friend who went to Ethiopia and she was asking me if this was a software issue. Boeing did implement some new software in this plane - one piece in particular is a new anti-stall method which is somehow causing the plane to nose down. Southwest and American are already enabling the AoA indicators on their Max 8s. I'm thinking bad data is at play here.

How the plane is reacting seems counter to Boeing's pilot-first philosophy.
 
Yep.

Talked about this at length in the Lion Air thread.

MCAS is more than software, though...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Astro14

MCAS is more than software, though...

What other systems could be at play though? Looking at a USA Today diagram of the MCAS and one of the sensors, could the system depend on data from the ADIRUs as well?

I think I've read Boeing and Parker Hannifin were in a lawsuit over a faulty electrohydraulic component in the tail/elevator section of the 737 Classics what was attributed to a crash.
 
Last edited:
Southwest and American are continuing to operate the type. They have the most 737 MAX aircraft in the US.

United has 14 737 MAX 9 aircraft which it is continuing to fly.
 
At American, we've operated the 737 MAX 8 since October 2017, and done so without issue. Southwest has operated these A/C even longer. I would surprised to see either airline ground the MAX 8 without being directed to until the investigations into the Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes find conclusive data as to the cause of these accidents and the cause warrants grounding the MAX. While these two accidents are certainly tragic and are cause for concern, I wouldn't be afraid to fly the MAX (and just did so yesterday, in fact).
 
With aircraft … there is always something to worry about … need to or not.
Rode in a brand new A321-NEO a couple weeks back trying to recall some of the teething P&W went through …
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top