1990 honda accord tranny fluid

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Heres some background on the car.
Its a 90' honda accord with the auto tranny. Was bought about three years ago with 70K. It was in immaculate condition. Now it has 93K on it.

I figure I will just drain the tranny fluid and then add some new stuff instead of taking it to a shop and have it "Flushed" out. Would kind of tranny fluid do these cars take? Dextron? The car didn't come with the owners manual otherwise I would look myself. Lastly how many times should I drain and refill to get most of the old stuff out?
 
dextron 2..but now dextron 3...i have an accord as well...try and get most of the old stuff out. it doesnt have a tranny filter as well.
 
If you drain, refill, drive 5 or 6 miles to bring the fluid up to normal operating temperature 3 times, Honda's 2003 owner's manual indicates that will suffice in a near complete exchange of fluid. Dexron III will be cheapest and should work about as well as what you experience now, but Honda's genuine proprietary fluid, and backward compatible for your application, will give you much better shift quality after it's permeated the clutch facings. My former Honda dealer charges $2.99/qt. You'll probably be able to re-use the old drain plug washer, but buy a new one anyway to have on hand in the event the old one leaks. My '96 Accord had a drain plug with a square hole in it. The hole accepted a 1/2" drive. It'll probably be pretty tight, so a 2' length of 1/2" pipe over your drive's handle will make for a cheap breaker bar if you don't have one. I had no leakage trouble re-using the old washer and I didn't put the plug back on anywhere nearly as tight as I found it. (Maybe the factory didn't either - it's a steel plug into aluminum, so perhaps it seized a bit over time...)
 
YOU'VE GOT THE RIGHT IDEA!!!

Quaker State makes some ATF that says it's for Imports--including Hondas. I've seen it at walmart for a good price-- under $3 in green quart bottles.

I would buy 6 bottles of this stuff, and then 3 bottles of Honda's ATF-Z1.

Drive, drain, fill with 3 quarts Q.S.

Drive a week, drain, fill with 3 quarts Q.S.

Drive a week, drain, fill with 3 quarts* of ATF-Z1 and use a new crush washer.

*Your dealer should be able to tell you exactly how many quarts your car takes on a change when you buy the ATF-Z1 and crush washer. It may be a little more or less than 3 quarts.

You will love the way Honda's premium fluid shifts!

Then go changes every 30,000 miles with ATF-Z1.
 
DO NOT! DO NOT! USE STRAIGHT DEX III. i have posted this before and believe that i attached a link that i wrote into the Chi Tribune to their ASE Master Tech, Motormouth, Bob Weber, i believe, who posts questions on a weekly basis.
i became concerned with this when i saw a Valvoline and Quaker State spec sheet at a local auto parts store. the sheet for Hondas has an asterisk that noted to use Dex II and stated DO NOT USE Dex III. i wrote in after i saw this. response was that Dex III was suitable only if a friction modifier, namely Lubegard in a black bottle was added. anyway, you are not going to find any Dex II ANYWHERE. Walmart used to have some stuff called Special Import, but i have not seen it there in about 4-5 months, i believe discontinued.
The best thing to do with your Honda is to go to the dealer and use Honda fluid-this is the one thing, along with coolant and power steering fluid that i believe that their proprietary fluids ARE different and parts are too **** expensive to replace on my daily driver/beater. you will also find posts that it shifts best with this stuff. certainly wouldnt risk a tranny. Mine is a 90 integra-still runs like a champ.
 
So just buy some of that Quaker State stuff drain and fill twice and then drain and fill with the ATF-Z1 the last time? I don't want to put the wrong fluid in my Mom's car so whatever you guys think.
 
quote:

Originally posted by smeltjr:
DO NOT! DO NOT! USE STRAIGHT DEX III. i have posted this before and believe that i attached a link that i wrote into the Chi Tribune to their ASE Master Tech, Motormouth, Bob Weber, i believe, who posts questions on a weekly basis.
i became concerned with this when i saw a Valvoline and Quaker State spec sheet at a local auto parts store. the sheet for Hondas has an asterisk that noted to use Dex II and stated DO NOT USE Dex III. i wrote in after i saw this. response was that Dex III was suitable only if a friction modifier, namely Lubegard in a black bottle was added. anyway, you are not going to find any Dex II ANYWHERE. Walmart used to have some stuff called Special Import, but i have not seen it there in about 4-5 months, i believe discontinued.
The best thing to do with your Honda is to go to the dealer and use Honda fluid-this is the one thing, along with coolant and power steering fluid that i believe that their proprietary fluids ARE different and parts are too **** expensive to replace on my daily driver/beater. you will also find posts that it shifts best with this stuff. certainly wouldnt risk a tranny. Mine is a 90 integra-still runs like a champ.


so ur telling me that my valvaline dextron 3 is bad for my 1990 accord tranny when i been using it for 160k? thats what they reconmended when the car was bought...they actually didnt have HONDA ATF back then...
 
my friend, they did NOT EVER state to use Dex III-it did not exist, they did state to use DexII. Regardless of what you may have read here or anywhere else Dex III is NOT completely backwards compatible in ALL applications, at least according to those who make it. if it were, i do not think QS or any other major lubricant mfr would go putting notes on their application sheets to NOT use it in these honda applications. i started looking into this as i did not understand it myself. somehow, i trust the application sheet and backup from a master tech. check the app sheets yourself or mail the manufacturer if you wish. now, i am not saying that you are not free to put whatever the **** you want in your own transmission and it may run just fine. i am simply passing along what the manufacturers and those trained to fix the cars have passed along. i have no interest in shelling out 1K or more for a new tranny that could even POSSIBLY be ruined by incorrect fluid. if i were working on my mother's car, i would personally shell the extra $10 and be safe with the Honda stuff all nine quarts. my 2 cents.
 
Interesting discussion.

I have an applications chart from the manufacturer of LubeGard, so I checked there.

For the 90 Honda Accord they recommend the Honda fluid OR Dexron III with their HFM, Black bottle, Highly Friction Modified additive.

Another vote against straight Dexron III.
 
i went to tranny shops to get them to t-tec my car, no wonder they refused to do it without honda fluid.

man u guys! now i have to change out my fluid again?? honda charges 30 bucks..but they drain and fill and claim they drive it around. can i just put an additve in there or something? or substitute it with auto rx (2 oz)?


even if my bottle says it can be used for honda trannys? it has some shutter protection or some crap like that..

btw..thanks for the help so far.
 
drifter, as i see it you have 3 choices. first is to stand pat and leave in what you got and hope for the best-i would not do this, but if car has run fine..... second option is to go to a napa and get a bottle of lubegard in BLACK bottle and add to your fluid-i believe it is 1 oz per qt. btw this is what the quick change places do with Hondas. when i called one asking if they had Genuine Honda to t-tec after my auto-rx treatment in my tranny the employee said yes. as it was a mile from my house i drove there for shucks and grins and the mgr stated they used Dex III with lubegard in Hondas, they did not really have Honda fluid. For $10 this may be your easiest, least costly option and likely pretty safe-you just have to add it to what you got in there. Third is to go to Honda and get 8-9 qts and go get t-tec or do a three time drain and fill. for $30 i believe the dealer will only do a single drain and fill of 3 qts. it is my understanding that Honda dealers do not t-tec. they do 3 drain and fills and believe that they charge around $80-$90 for that.
one last possibility is to check your Walmart who used to sell a QS Special Import whose label read something to the effect that it was safe for Honda/Toyota or anything that required Dex II-i shied away from this as it appeared to be older fluid. do not know anything about their "multi vehicle formula" but have a hard time believing that it could be a one patch application for so many different cars. i have not seen the Special Import stuff in mnths. Honda fluid is your best bet. Dex III with lubegard would be my second choice. btw the car will likely shift better with either of these as they add some friction modifier. I AM NO EXPERT HERE-THIS IS JUST MY EXPERIENCE. i usually spend more time researching this crap than doing the actual work.
 
im glad you do share your experiances. things like this help. i had doubts about a multi vheicle fluid as well. my car shifts funnie in second..kinda shakey once in a while but if i am almost finished with first gear and step on the gas and shift to second...it shutters....

my tranny has 160k on it and i believe its going out. but now that u brought up honda motor oil then ill give it a try. think about a gallon of valvaline ATF costs 7 bucks...one quart of ATF costs 2 bucks. thats 8 dollars ATF for honda a gallon. im just using a BUCK more from valvaline.

im kinda iffy on additives. what about honda ATF and lubequard?

maybe temporary i might just add some lubeguard since this fluid is only about 3000 miles old.

i dont believe honda drives it around like they say they do..plus i cant take off my drain bolt period...thats why i do my own t-tec. do u think i should just do t-tec with honda ATF?
 
if you get Honda fluid DO NOT add Lubegard. The Honda stuff has the necessaryfriction modifiers in it already. If you read the lubegard bottle carefully it states NOT to use more than 1 oz, i believe, per qt of Dex III. It says it will begin to cause slippage. If you got fresh Dex III in your tranny I would probably do this first. there are lots who swear by the stuff. If it is time to change fluid I would get Honda. Honda does not need anything added.
One more word on Honda automatics. If you have played around tuning your car and ever adjusted your THROTTLE CABLE make sure it is to spec. You cannot do this by idle feel. It made a huge difference on my integra. The Helms factory service manual states that too tight of a throttle cable will cause erratic shifting and "torque converter shuttering". i had this when slow traffic and it really slammed when i hit the gas going around 15mph. i checked the throttle cable and the deflection was about 5-6mm. Factory spec is 10-12 mm on this car. i loosened it a bit and it made all the difference in the world. I do not know what stock deflection is for an accord, but some food for thought. One last word is that these have no tranny filters. factory recommendation on fluid changes is 30k miles. i have heard this is too high. i go 1 yr or 15,000 miles. change about twice a year. good luck.
 
i found that honda ATF here is 3.98 a quart...gee i need more than 5 quarts to do a full flush. im still contemplating if i should put all new HONDA ATF or since this fluid is new, put lube quard.

would it be safe to drain umm 3 or 4 quarts of my old ATF and put 3 or 4 quarts of honda ATF? would i be safe going that way...then later ill change the fluid with honda fluid?

my change intervals are 20k or 15k. i do that cause of the unsureness of my fluid...and my driving styles.

quote:

checked the throttle cable and the deflection was about 5-6mm. Factory spec is 10-12 mm on this car. i loosened it a bit and it made all the difference in the world. I do not know what stock deflection is for an accord

well i played with my throttle cable before..thought that was to change the idle. lol people on this site said no..and i found the adjuster screw...so i tried to get the deflection back to normal. yet i never touched the tranny cable. the way i check it is by openning the throttle all the way and see if the tranny is fully open....

i just cant find where to test deflection on the tranny...
 -


ignore the writing. but before that throttle rotor..thats where i test deflection for the throttle cable...

--from honda manual.--
-turn the adjusting nut until it is 1/8 (3mm) away from the cable bracket.
-tighten the locknut and check cable deflection at throttle linkage. deflection should be 3/8 to 1/2 inch.
---tranny

-loosen the lower locknut on the throttle control cable and the throttle control lever.
-while pushing the throttle control lever to the fully closed position remove all freeplay from the throttle control cable by tightening the upperlocknut.
-tighten the lower locknut.
-after the locknut is tightend check the synchronization and throttle control lever movment.
----
so there is no deflection...only deflection check is the throttle cable that i showed in that picture. am i right?

many thanks!
worshippy.gif
 
drifter, i cannot see your pix and cannot assure you that your accord is set up like my integra. i also do not know if you are looking at a Haynes/Chiltons or a factory service Helms manual. mine is from factory service Helms manual and in the mechanical troubleshooting guide ofthe auto tranny section, which is about 150 pages, i read the info on throttle cable deflection. i would assume that your setup is similar to mine. i measured cable deflection right where cable lined up with the spring loaded accellerator piice on the throttle body-not at the middle of the cable. mine has no cable from the intake to the tranny, though i understand that some do. try measuring where the first part of the cable lines up with the first part of the throttle body. regards to other idle problems, have you checked and cleaned your IACV-idle air control valve? this is on the back part of your intake manifold and can cause erratic/jumping idle-another notorious Honda maintenance issue.
Regards to tranny fluid, if yours is new i'd suggest you go get some lubegard and put in about 6 oz andlet it ride until next change time, then go with Honda. Check your personal messages.
 
i see your pix now. right where your arrow is is where i checked my deflection. i cannot tell if that cable wire continues out going to the left of your photo? if so, your setup is a little different than mine. if it is a different cable, i believe that you are checking in the right spot.
 
"have you checked and cleaned your IACV-idle air control valve?"

yes i checked and cleaned it...i have the DIY on that.

the line for the throttle goes all the way down to the tranny as one....

"CAtedster "my engine is clean huh..its a 1991 honda accord with 160k. i clean it with simple green and a pressure washer. nothing else =)

wow so much info on dextron 3 not being compadable to dextron 2. my fluid said it is, but ill try that black bottle. wouild i have to drain some fluid out so that it wont over fill to add the lubbeguard?

temporary ill use lubeguard for a while..then later convert to full HONDA ATF. the fluid in this car is still fine...i mean well not oxidized.

im stumped..thought i was doing this car good with the nice new fluid and all, to learn that dextron 3 has its problems.

i been doing alot of reasearch on lube guard. alot of people had sucess with it. i never never put an additives in my tranny...guess ill start now....
 
If your budget will allow, you would be better off to go with all ATF-Z1, no additives. This is the best ATF for new and older Hondas, but wasn't available back when the car was new. Back then something like QS could have been close to the best that was available.

Since you will be dumping out half of the first two fill-ups anyway, I was thinking you could go with a cheaper yet appropriate oil for the "flush" fills.

The way I see it, with three flushes you have three basic choices with the following results:

87.5% Z1 using 9-Z1.
75% Z1, 12.5% QS using 3-QS the 6-Z1.
50% Z1, 37.5% QS using 6-QS and 3-Z1.

In all instances, you have 12.5% unknown dirty oil. Maybe the middle choice is good enough for you.

Spending more for 6 ATF-Z1's instead of 6 QS will give you the best piece of mind, but I personally doubt it will make the car last or shift significantly better.

quote:

Originally posted by goatman:
So just buy some of that Quaker State stuff drain and fill twice and then drain and fill with the ATF-Z1 the last time? I don't want to put the wrong fluid in my Mom's car so whatever you guys think.



[ October 10, 2003, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: S2000driver ]
 
can't you just pop off a tranny cooler line and do a total fill of what ever you choose? that's basically what a t-tec is anyway, right?
 
On a 14 year old car you better have an extra hose handy... how much do these cost? Will this get the dirtiest oil out? How messy would this be?

quote:

Originally posted by got boost?:
can't you just pop off a tranny cooler line and do a total fill of what ever you choose? that's basically what a t-tec is anyway, right?



[ October 10, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: S2000driver ]
 
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