The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission

[daved5150]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Hi all, just want you to know how appreciative I am of threads like these...


I love threads like this as I learn and gain info as I go. I was late to the party... mattd deserves the thanks for posting this thread with all the great pics of the 6R140 Trans parts.

 

[mattd]

Originally Posted by daved5150
I figured you would say that... To disregard the pan "upgrade." I asked a diesel mechanic familiar with Ford's and he said the same thing.

You're putting about 3k miles less than me a year at 15k miles (90k ÷ 6 years) but you're towing. So you essentially cut the 30k mile OCI in half. Do you also change out the transfer case fluid as well at this interval? I forget if I mentioned it but I changed mine.

I remember reading somewhere that the earlier MY 6r140s had more clutch and steel plate counts than the later MYs. Is this true?

About deleting, I did purchase an extended warranty of 7/125k which looking back, I should have saved my money but down the road if I experience emission component failures, I plan on deleting. I'm not looking for crazy power, probably just a modest tow tune. I'm collecting info now as we speak.


I change my transfer case fluid every 50k miles. The only difference as far as clutch plates was direct clutch used 5 thinner steel plates in early builds (.083") vs 4 steels in late builds (.118"). Both early and late builds used the same amount of frictions (.078"). Intermediate friction material was changed along with the center support design in late builds as well. There are also different reverse piston designs early vs late.

 

[Env1ous]

Just because you are very familiar with Fords. I have a 13 F150 with the 6r80. I have 82k miles right now. I dropped the pan and replaced fluid and the filter 2 years ago around 60k miles. What service interval would you recommend to keep it healthy and happy? I have the ecoboost and it is tuned so it does see a fair share of abuse lol

 

[mattd]

Did you have the transmission tuned to go with the engine tunes? That is most important to make it live.

I would do a pan drop every 30k or so unless you notice the fluid getting darker or burnt faster than it should.

 

[Env1ous]

Correct sir. Most of the tunes do change the trans tuning as well. Not many leave the trans stock.
I really do like this trans a lot. A few guys are putting a lot of power through the stock units and you don't see many upgrade options besides upgraded clutch packs.

Awesome! Thank you. That is the type of schedule I was following. Would it hurt to maybe do two drain and fills this year to get a lot of the older fluid out?

 

[mattd]

Clean fluid will only help. What's the fluid look/smell like? If it's clean and smells fine leave it alone if not go ahead and change it

 

[Env1ous]

Originally Posted by mattd
Clean fluid will only help. What's the fluid look/smell like? If it's clean and smells fine leave it alone if not go ahead and change it


A little dark. Not a cherry red. I think the pan drop and exchange will be fine. But ill get more of an indepth look when I actually drop it! lol

 

[daved5150]

Thanks mattd. I'm still learning about whats going on inside auto Transmissions. Not like I'm going to rebuild them. It's just interesting to learn what's going on inside.
Is there any longevity increase in the redesigned later MYs? Out of curiosity, have you seen inside one of the 17+ 6R140s?

What is your opinion on what the life of a stock 6r140 would be with regular fluid drops and filter changes?

What's your opinion of the factory trans filter and should it be changed at same time of trans pan fluid drop?

About the fluid itself, Mercon LV, is it true it gets dark red rather quickly because of heat? When I changed mine out, it was dark red but didn't have the burned smell. Here's a pic of the fluid when I changed it. Also a picture of the small magnets I used on the bottom of the pan.

 

[daved5150]

Here's a pic of the magnets where I placed them in the pan.

 

[mattd]

Time will tell about longevity increase in later model years. I haven't been inside a 17+ yet they are too new and al under factory warranty still. We have a 17 and 2 18s that are piling on the miles fast so we will see. The transmissions I overhaul are essentially what's inside a 2018 trans. I install all the updated parts.

The fluid does tend to darken fast. One of the 2018s we have has 12000 miles and is already a maroon color on the dipstick. However once difference I did notice on the 17+ transmissions is they did away with a drain plug on the pan. You must now remove the pan to drain any fluid.

I personally use valvoline max life LV rated fluid and it stays pink more or less the entire interval on my 5R110. I either use the motor craft LV fluid or the bulk oilzum synthetic atf for the fleet vehicles.

 

[daved5150]

Originally Posted by mattd
Time will tell about longevity increase in later model years. I haven't been inside a 17+ yet they are too new and al under factory warranty still. We have a 17 and 2 18s that are piling on the miles fast so we will see. The transmissions I overhaul are essentially what's inside a 2018 trans. I install all the updated parts.

The fluid does tend to darken fast. One of the 2018s we have has 12000 miles and is already a maroon color on the dipstick. However once difference I did notice on the 17+ transmissions is they did away with a drain plug on the pan. You must now remove the pan to drain any fluid.

I personally use valvoline max life LV rated fluid and it stays pink more or less the entire interval on my 5R110. I either use the motor craft LV fluid or the bulk oilzum synthetic atf for the fleet vehicles.


So I'm assuming the upgraded parts you are rebuilding with are factory parts?

Looks like the penny pitchers at corporate were looking to save money by not installing a drain bolt in the pans. That sucks for people who work on them. Not like I'm a full time mechanic, just a backyard guy who learned from his father, but there is nothing worse than laying on the ground lowering a trans pan down full of ATF that has no drain bolt plug. It's obviously easier for you with a lift though.

I see the Valvoline MaxLife ATF Mercon LV stuff at Advance for $29 for the gallon bottle. Wal-Mart has it for $18. I just checked my wife's transaxle in her 2009 Ford Escape today. I changed it about 46k miles ago and to be honest, I have forgotten about it as I would have changed it out earlier again. I checked my notepad that I keep for the Escape and I used Valvoline MaxLife. It was darker in color and had no burned smell to it. So I think I'm going to drop 8 quarts of MaxLife into my truck for the next pan drop. I'm kind of impressed that it was still in decent shape after 46k miles.

I never heard of Oilzum so I'll have to check them out for FYI.

I can't wait to see what guys are going to be saying about the new 10r140, if that's going to be the name, and the 6.7 and what kind of mileage it's going to yield with 4 extra gears. We shall see.

 

[mattd]

I will have to do some research on the new 10 speed. I heard rumors it was going to be a 6R140 with an extra 4 pinion planetary but we will see.

In my opinion there's no need for a 10 speed transmission with the power the 6.7 produces. I feel that it is very well geared the way it is.

I buy the maxlife atf at Walmart it is cheapest there.

The oilzum was not my decision to buy that's what the shop buys here is a link
https://denlube.com/site/wp-content/uploads/Oilzum-Synthetic-ATF-PDS.pdf

And yes, all the updated parts I use are factory parts.

 

[daved5150]

The reason I believe they are going with more gears is to try to get as much mileage out of the New trucks as possible. With more gears, the engine stays in the power band and uses less fuel because the 6.7 doesn't have to work so hard because of less RPM drop. Just my 2 cents. But my 16 feels pretty good with the 6 speed box. I do wonder how it would roll with 2 extra gears though...

That Oilzum sounds just like the MaxLife, a multi use ATF. Thanks for the link. So why don't you think it's a good ATF?

And about rebuilding the 6R140, you sound like you have a lot of knowledge about it. How far are you from Western New York if I need mine done down the line?

 

[mattd]

I'm about 8 hrs from niagra falls or about 1.5 hrs from Hartford CT, 2.5 hrs or so from NYC. I'd be happy to help you out if the need ever arose.

I never said it wasn't a good atf I just was saying it wasn't my decision to buy it. We haven't had any fluid related issues with any of the units we use it in including big stuff like Allison 4000 transmissions.

I understand what ford is trying to achieve but i feel like it would ruin the driving experience because it would be shifting so frequently. That's just my personal opinion.

 

[daved5150]

I live south of Buffalo or about 45 minutes from Niagara Falls. You're not far from me at all. I appreciate the welcome. I plan on maintaining this truck and keeping it after it's paid off. These trucks are too expensive to upgrade all the time, but some guys like new trucks with new payments. I like to maintain what I have and not have the big payment.

About the 10 speed, I'm just speculating as you know more, way more, than I do about the operation of automatic transmissions. But what you say makes sense too. More parts with more things to fail, maybe more gear hunting. My truck runs good as is but not that I'm fond of the factory shifting strategy. The trans upshifts way too fast which makes the engine lug at the lower speeds when in 5th and 6th gears. I keep it in tow/haul mode which helps slow the truck on the hills I encounter. I also lock out 6th gear when I'm not on the highway. The regens are out at 500 miles so I believe what I do helps reduce soot. There is no harm to the trans in what I'm doing, is there?

 

[mattd]

No there is no harm, it's just going to change the shift strategy. I too agree these trucks are far too expensive to cycle out all the time, hence the reason why I drive a 12 year old truck with 230k haha. Rot will be the killer of my truck it is in mechanically excellent condition.

If you get custom tunes you can fine tune the transmission changing shift feel as well as different shift Patterns as far as vehicle speed. It would fix the lugging issue without a doubt. Not sure how friendly your local ford dealer is with tuning/deletes and warranty work though.

 

[daved5150]

This is my first diesel. I've been subscribed to Diesel Power magazine for years. I've always said I'm a diesel truck owner that hasn't bought the truck yet. My dad drove truck and I used to go with him as a kid. I used to love the sound of the engine and the smell of grease, diesel fuel and exhaust fumes. But anyways, my truck has sentimental value because I bought it when I sold the house I grew up in and could finally swing a new diesel pickup. I know my late father trucks with me when I drive it. He would have loved it.

I get my truck oiled every year. That salt is a killer of vehicles no doubt. When I owned my first Ford, an OBS 96 F350 351w 4x4, mechanics and friends couldn't believe how clean it was underneath. But that was oiled each year also. But I used to wash off the truck also a lot during winter when the roads dried up.

I bought an extended warranty for my truck, 7 year or 125k mile, thinking that would extend the emissions warranty. WRONG. I found out the emissions warranty only goes to 50k. What a kick in the b*lls. It is what it is. I really haven't discussed it yet with my dealer. I'm doing research now on deleting. Down the line, if start having any emissions related problems, I plan deleting. While I do like the truck as it is, stock, I wouldn't do it to add huge power or blow black smoke. Those coal rollers are idiots. They give all diesel truck owners a bad image. I would do it to gain engine reliability and hopefully gain some MPG.

What I would do is most likely a conservative tow tune to keep smoke to a minimum. I like to fly under the radar. I would keep the stock tailpipe as I like the look and it's stock so it won't draw any law enforcement attention.

I have looked at emissions on tuners. 5 Star Tuning and DP-Tuner. They both have A trans only tune in their tunes. I'm really curious about how the trans would feel with an aftermarket trans tune. I heard that a red flag pops up hidden in the ECM software if the engine makes more than stock power. So I keep going back and forth with the idea. They both get great reviews on another forum I belong to. There's no doubt that the factory trans tuning is lacking.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Honestly, the lame emissions warranties are my only real gripe with emissions. If they want you to run it for the life of the vehicle, warranty it as such, or at least make it affordable.

Most of the latest DPFs have almost no scrap value at all, so they have obviously figured out how to make them with little or not high ticket materials. So why still a bazillion dollars?

Gotten insane already.

 

[daved5150]

Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Honestly, the lame emissions warranties are my only real gripe with emissions. If they want you to run it for the life of the vehicle, warranty it as such, or at least make it affordable.

Most of the latest DPFs have almost no scrap value at all, so they have obviously figured out how to make them with little or not high ticket materials. So why still a bazillion dollars?

Gotten insane already.


I agree. You spend all this money on the truck, and the govt mandated equipment is not covered the same as the drivetrain. And the cost of replacement is crazy. I think the gov't should warranty it since they mandate it. JMHO. It'll never happen though.

 

[daved5150]

Hey mattd, quick question if you don't mind. Have you ever seen any problems with the range selector that is now internal to the 6R140?

On another forum, there is a guy with a 6.7 that says when he shifts into reverse, the truck doesn't go into reverse or takes some time. I'll copy and paste his comment when I get a chance. I know it could also be the solenoid controlling reverse. I just wanted to hear your views on this. Thanks.