The inner workings of a 6R140 transmission

Originally Posted by mattd
It's the second generation torqshift. It's related to the 5r110 but i suppose it could be viewed as a super heavy duty version of the 6r80. IIRC the answer to the Allison 1000 was the 5r110. IMO the 6r140 handles added power much better than the Allison 1000 with no upgrades. There are many people running around with 600+ hp on a stock transmission other than tuning changes


I agree that the 6R140 handles added power A LOT better that a Allison 1000, I actually feel the same about the 5R110 with a good torque converter.
However.....It's been my experience that the 2006 & up Allison 1000 will run longer in the 350/650 output range at max GCWR.
 
The 5r110 is a great transmission that can take some abuse too. I have one in my personal truck. I have more experience with the ford transmssions than the Allison's but from the ones I have seen they don't take well to added power without some work. I will take your word for it about 06+ trucks.

If ford had made the overdrive clutch in the 6R140 with a better apply piston setup it would be more reliable. It has a very small range of contact on the first steel plate. There are aftermarket fixes for it but it is expensive. It would be a bullet proof transmission with an upgraded overdrive clutch. They did improve the Teflon sealing ring design with a solid peace vs a split ring on the 5R110. They also ditched all the molded pistons for aluminum ones except for overdrive on the 6r140 as yo could probably tel from the pictures
 
Last edited:
And Manufacturers are well aware that "Thin Work Surface" apply pistons Cone the frictions & steels. Is this one offset aswell? The C2 clutch piston work surface in the 5spd Allison was thin & offset, Got corrected in the 6spd versions!

It's amazing how many builders will argue that Work Surface Area doesn't matter......I machine aluminum TH400 pistons to fit 4L80E's all the time, Though the TH400 pieces are getting harder & harder to find. But there are Billet versions $$$.

Pictures of apply piston Work Surface's to show everyone what the heck we're talking about!!
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
 
No, it's not offset. It's even smaller than that C2 5 spd piston. This is how small the work area is. This is the steel plate that it pushes on. Second picture is the piston

9DB911CD-E809-4985-B74E-58161271B702.jpeg


AE31A949-993A-4B80-BBE6-0C86649F47E1.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by clinebarger
And Manufacturers are well aware that "Thin Work Surface" apply pistons Cone the frictions & steels. Is this one offset aswell? The C2 clutch piston work surface in the 5spd Allison was thin & offset, Got corrected in the 6spd versions!


Pictures of apply piston Work Surface's to show everyone what the heck we're talking about!!


And that few mms of surface is responsible for transmitting power through the clutches via hydraulic actuation of the friction/steel assemblies. Wow. So much is leaning on that.
 
Hey mattd, since you are the resident 6r140 expert here, I want to run some stuff by you.

My 16 F350 currently has just over 38k miles. I dropped the fluid and pan, changed filter, cleaned up the donut magnet, put 2 small high temp rare earth magnets in the small sump area on bottom of pan at 31450 miles. My plan is to drain and replace the 8 quarts every 30k miles. Then the additive package is maintained and a flush isn't required. What do you think? Can I let the filter go since I changed it at 31k?

I also added 16 oz of Lubegard Platinum additive. What's your take on Lubegard?

My truck is just a daily driver for now,stock, because I don't have a snow plow yet and no camper to pull yet either.

Appreciate you posting up the pictures and info On the 6r140.
 
I personally don't like transmission additives but I don't think it will hurt anything. Have never used them in any of the units I have built.

I do a drain and fill once a year on my truck (07 F350) and change the inline filter too. It has been almost 6 years without a hiccup since I built it (knock on wood of course).

I think doing a drain and fill at that interval would be fine especially since you don't tow or anything. I tow a camper with my truck that's why I do what I do.

If you ever have any questions about it in the future feel free to PM me
 
Last edited:
How many miles on your 2007 F350? Do you tow or plow with it at all?

Here's the link to the Lubegard stuff I used:

https://lubegard.opticatonline.com/...=136801&ctx_region=usa&ctx_iam=1

My last truck and first Ford I owned was a 1996 F350 with 351 Windsor 4.11s. I plowed with that truck pretty hard. I added a B&M trans pan to the E4OD that added about 2 or 3 quarts extra I believe, also added a cooler to the plow frame crossmember behind the front bumper like this one:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-331000/

I also added this exact cooler to the cooling circuit for the transmission :

https://www.amazon.com/Tru-Cool-LPD47391-Pressure-Transmission-Cooler/dp/B0060NKA1U

I also used this filter from Dieselsite.com :

http://www.dieselsite.com/dieselsitetransmissionfiltersystemTFIK.aspx

I used a FilterMag on the Diesel site filter:

http://www.shopfiltermag.com/shop-filtermag-2/

The very last thing that was added to the return line back to the E4OD was a dual valve tee that I would shut off the line going back to the trans but open up the bottom line of the tee to drain out ATF. I would have someone sit inside and run the trans through the gears. As soon as it started spitting air, I'd have them put it park and shut it off. That was about 10 quarts if memory serves me correctly. I'd fill it back up and do the process over again. I did this once a year. Usually in the fall before winter.

That E4OD lasted 92k miles and I plowed commercially in the WNY winters. It still worked when it was pulled but there was a lot of clutch material when we drained to it to send back as a core for the Monster Box I bought. I'd like to think what I did, OVERKILL, essentially made that trans last through all the plowing that I did during some storms where the truck was running for over 24 hours at times.

So you think it's okay that I go the 30k mile OCI because I don't work it? I used the 30k interval because I've heard that from the past for transmissions.

Why do you think Ford recommends a 150k mile OCI for these transmissions? Personally I think that's crazy. There are guys that change their engine oil at 5k, a different beast all together, but don't think of their trans fluid. What do you think?

Appreciate your offer of DM, thanks.
 
30k is just fine I tow a 7500 lb camper from March to October put no plowing. It's 6.0.

Like I said I have never felt the need for transmission additives but It shouldn't hurt a thing.

The cooler is unnecessary in my opinion the trans is thermostatically controlled to 200* and the liquid to liquid cooler it has is extremely efficient. I have really never seen one of these run hit even towing with factory cooling.

The additional filtration won't hurt either as long it doesn't restrict cooler flow.

As far as the 150k interval I have no idea why but I haven't seen one make it to that with original fluid and both fail.

My truck has 230k miles .
 
Dave I think I misread your post I thought you added the cooler and everything to the ‘16 Truck sorry.
 
My dad has had 2 6.7's, a 2012 and a 2013. I used to haul hay with them on a gooseneck. It wasn't uncommon for me to see 240°F trans temps on hot days. The 2012 was traded in after about 20k miles for a laundry list of issues we kept having... figured it was just a fluke. He traded the 12 for the 13, same story on the 13, but he kept it for almost 80k miles, the transmission was starting to misbehave not too long before we traded it in. Neither truck ever had a fluid or filter change.

The 08 6.4 we had before the 6.7's never gave a bit of trouble, It was my favorite of any of the 3 Fords we've had. Y'all can keep the 6.7's, they've left us on the side of the road too many times. Maybe they'd have been alright if we had deleted them from the beginning, who knows. The 2012 had to be towed (the first time) to the dealer at 11k miles and the 2013 quit at 17k miles. Unacceptable for a $60k truck that's less than a year old. We both drive duramaxs now.
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles Blake. Ford had issues with EGT sensors in the first model years of the 6.7 but got it mostly sorted in 2013. I live in s different environment maybe that's why I have never seen the trans temps you did.

The 6.7 deleted is very reliable. We had a couple of rescues reach 25,000 engine hours with them with deletes (750,000-800,000 miles).

The 5R110 that was behind the 6.4 is also a very strong transmission they used it behind the 6.0 as well. Surprised to hear about the reliability of the 6.4 as it was the worst Diesel engine ford used all time in their line of pickups. You got a good one.
 
Originally Posted by mattd
Sorry to hear about your troubles Blake. Ford had issues with EGT sensors in the first model years of the 6.7 but got it mostly sorted in 2013. I live in s different environment maybe that's why I have never seen the trans temps you did.

The 6.7 deleted is very reliable. We had a couple of rescues reach 25,000 engine hours with them with deletes (750,000-800,000 miles).

The 5R110 that was behind the 6.4 is also a very strong transmission they used it behind the 6.0 as well. Surprised to hear about the reliability of the 6.4 as it was the worst Diesel engine ford used all time in their line of pickups. You got a good one.

There were a lot of things I liked about the 6.7's and the Ford trucks in general but they just were not reliable for us.
The 6.4's have a bad rep, seems like you either got a really good one or a really bad one. I guess we got a good one, I loved that truck. It was starting to get a slight knock when it was cold right before we traded it in at about 80k miles, but we didn't take particularly good care of it. It served us well all things considered. I overheated the trans on the 6.4 once(pretty early in its life), but it didn't seem to hurt it. I can't remember how hot it got, but I remember it was near the right edge of the trans temp gauge. I manually shifted into 2nd or 3rd and forgot about it for a minute, I was basically stall testing the TC with 25k lbs behind me for a couple minutes pulling out of a field onto the road.... don't judge... I was young and not as in tune with things as I am now. Lol
The 6.4 was a powerful truck and I always liked the way it handled a load. If it had been maintained the way it should have I don't think it would have got traded in as soon as it did.
We put a lot of hours on our trucks, we usually average 12-13mph. Dads 2016 LML has 38.5k miles and ~2,600 engine hours. He's closer to 15 mph right now, but I've put several highway miles on it going out of state to pick some stuff up that's outside of our usual driving habits. Dad usually trades trucks about every 4 years at somewhere in the neighborhood of 80-90k miles but he says this is his favorite truck to date, he's talking about deleting it and keeping it for a while.
 
Originally Posted by mattd
Dave I think I misread your post I thought you added the cooler and everything to the ‘16 Truck sorry.


Yes sir, you did. I was talking about my 96 with the E4OD. I have no plans to mess with the 6r140 fluid circuit. If I would do anything, I'd do a larger pan but really have no plans to do so. What's your thoughts on the aftermarket aluminum extra capacity trans pans?

And speaking of your 5R110, is that the original trans with original miles?
 
Originally Posted by daved5150
Originally Posted by mattd
Dave I think I misread your post I thought you added the cooler and everything to the ‘16 Truck sorry.


Yes sir, you did. I was talking about my 96 with the E4OD. I have no plans to mess with the 6r140 fluid circuit. If I would do anything, I'd do a larger pan but really have no plans to do so. What's your thoughts on the aftermarket aluminum extra capacity trans pans?

And speaking of your 5R110, is that the original trans with original miles?


Save your money on the pan it is not necessary. I rebuilt my 5R 6 years ago with 140K miles. All that failed on it was the steel plates and 2 clutches were worn but I went through it anyway with upgraded stuff.
 
Last edited:
I figured you would say that... To disregard the pan "upgrade." I asked a diesel mechanic familiar with Ford's and he said the same thing.

You're putting about 3k miles less than me a year at 15k miles (90k ÷ 6 years) but you're towing. So you essentially cut the 30k mile OCI in half. Do you also change out the transfer case fluid as well at this interval? I forget if I mentioned it but I changed mine.

I remember reading somewhere that the earlier MY 6r140s had more clutch and steel plate counts than the later MYs. Is this true?

About deleting, I did purchase an extended warranty of 7/125k which looking back, I should have saved my money but down the road if I experience emission component failures, I plan on deleting. I'm not looking for crazy power, probably just a modest tow tune. I'm collecting info now as we speak.
 
Back
Top