What is your definition of "mechanic?"

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The ASE certifications were a way to get you more money and better paying jobs, however whether you could keep those jobs and that pay depended on whether you could actually do the work. And a lot couldn't.

Right now the industry is so desperate for techs that they are willing to overlook just bout everything. You don't need to certs, you don't necessarily need the formal training or experience. THEY NEED YOU. My brother in law is a service manager at a local dealership and they just can't find "qualified techs". They get people applying for mechanic jobs with zero experience and sometimes they hire them. It's like that in other blue collar industries right now as well...people don't want to work. They don't want to work hard, work in the cold, hurt their hands, breath in stuff. They want a degree, a desk job, high pay and benefits. I can't really blame them. This is what it was like to work in a dealership years ago - it's since gotten a little better - you'd get two sick days a year. You'd have to beg for raises and compete with every tech in the place for good repairs (gravy work). Your health insurance was expensive and a joke. You'd get two weeks vacation after three years. And you'd max out at three weeks after ten years. The new schedules...the open seven days a week dealers started and you'd find yourself working weekends, so your schedule was always changing. Meanwhile you'd see your white collar buddy making twice as much, working half as hard, having weekends off, five weeks of vacation a year, flexible spending account, 6 sick days, 3 personal days, Christmas bonus, sign on bonus...don't have to buy tools, get a car allowance, college reimbursement, clothing allowance. Meanwhile my "Christmas bonus" at the dealer was a cold cut platter next to the alignment machine...oh try not to get any grease on it, the sales people want some too.

And then we'd top it all off by having to spend hundreds on tools every year and spend hours trying to understand the new and "better" technology that came out every ten minutes. Not a lot of fun, but it's starting to get better...dealers can't find people...they're paying now and throwing in some benefits. It's about time.
 
A real mechanic is a person who understands what a part does, how it functions and, is capable of rebuilding it such as a starter, alternator or whatever. Ed
 
A mechanic Changes parts, and some diagnosis. brakes, water pumps, plugs, replace brake lines. etc

A Technician is more technical, more of a specialist. jobs are separated, one works on electrical shorts, other is interior, there is no jack of all trades.

Then there are Specialist; transmission rebuilders, Radiator shops, undercarriage alignment/tire shops, 4wd shops, auto body shops, and speed/automotive machine shops.

To be any of these, you need: to work in a garage for 5+ years, or at least 2 years of tech school training. You need the tools, and know how to use them, like knowlege to fully use Road Force tire balancer to it's fullest potential..

ASE is a joke to me, but it does look nice having that patch.

ASE should use the I-Car GOLD CLASS model, where instead of getting the certs, you have to constantly have your employees active in education on the latest trends.
 
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I have seen first hand many times where people know automotive theory but cannot transfer that knowledge to their hands and make it work. I work with one of hose people currently. My boss would love to fire him but since my shop is a union job it's not that easy.

I used to have my ASE master, L1 and L2 but most of them have expired. No real incentive to have them anymore.
 
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Originally Posted by Railrust
It's like that in other blue collar industries right now as well...people don't want to work. They don't want to work hard, work in the cold, hurt their hands, breath in stuff. They want a degree, a desk job, high pay and benefits. I can't really blame them.
I've noticed the same in construction. When I was a kid, it was all english speaking, old stock canadians. Now most tradesmen seem to be eastern europeans. Millenials didn't follow their parents into the trades.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
They don't want to work hard, work in the cold, hurt their hands, breath in stuff.

I'm all for working hard, but the cold and getting hurt and the breathing in stuff just sounds like an intelligence test...

Originally Posted by Railrust
Meanwhile you'd see your white collar buddy making twice as much, working half as hard, having weekends off, five weeks of vacation a year, flexible spending account, 6 sick days, 3 personal days, Christmas bonus, sign on bonus...don't have to buy tools, get a car allowance, college reimbursement, clothing allowance.

This seems like an intelligence test too...

When weighing one versus the other in this light is there really a question as to why people make the choices that they make?!?

Why would you blame them?!?
 
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by Railrust
They don't want to work hard, work in the cold, hurt their hands, breath in stuff.

I'm all for working hard, but the cold and getting hurt and the breathing in stuff just sounds like an intelligence test...

Originally Posted by Railrust
Meanwhile you'd see your white collar buddy making twice as much, working half as hard, having weekends off, five weeks of vacation a year, flexible spending account, 6 sick days, 3 personal days, Christmas bonus, sign on bonus...don't have to buy tools, get a car allowance, college reimbursement, clothing allowance.

This seems like an intelligence test too...

When weighing one versus the other in this light is there really a question as to why people make the choices that they make?!?

Why would you blame them?!?


Right, exactly. I don't blame them.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
Right, exactly. I don't blame them.

Yeah, me either.
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The industrial/power boiler mechanics that worked for me didn't have "certs" when they came to work....or after I left. Most learned some skills in the Navy and Army....the rest learned on the job at the plant. Some others learned by trial and error as a mechanic's helper. All of them had the capability to think out a solution and then perform the repair. They worked on everything from diesel wheel loaders, company trucks, hydraulic systems, conveyors of all types, higher pressure steam system valves, burners, hp air compressors, pumps, hvac, large trolley cranes, and even turbine accessory systems. Frankly, there wasn't much they couldn't fix. Most of them could tig, mig and stick weld, run a bridgeport, etc. None of them had a formal cert such as ASME. They were what I called "mechanics." No doubt every one of them could fix anything on their vehicles. When I left the plant the most seasoned ones had 10-20 yrs there. I was constantly amazed that no matter how damaged a piece of equipment, they could fix it. One of my guys rebuilt the engine, transmission, bucket, piston joints, rear end, hydraulics, and electrical on a Volvo 925 wheel loader. Basically got a working hulk and made it look and run like new again. That's a mechanic.
 
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Originally Posted by KalapanaBlack
The best are the 3+ yrs of school, $25,000 in Strap-On tools, scanners, cabinets, etc., and they can't read fuel trims to diag an O2 or check a 5V reference code to sort through 10 major DTCs.


I think you get that in all fields. When I was doing network administration, we'd have people we'd call paper CNE's which was a certification that they passed the exam, but they couldn't actually work on the equipment. They just knew enough to pass the exams. We'd always get help desk people who just wanted to know what the answer was but were unable to figure it out for themselves. That's really the difference.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust

Right now the industry is so desperate for techs that they are willing to overlook just bout everything. You don't need to certs, you don't necessarily need the formal training or experience. THEY NEED YOU. My brother in law is a service manager at a local dealership and they just can't find "qualified techs". They get people applying for mechanic jobs with zero experience and sometimes they hire them. It's like that in other blue collar industries right now as well...people don't want to work. They don't want to work hard, work in the cold, hurt their hands, breath in stuff. They want a degree, a desk job, high pay and benefits.


I'm in agreement-- we aren't steering the right people to the trades. And a lot of people get antsy riding a desk who'd be better off getting their hands dirty.

When I worked at a tire shop I got $7.50/hr just for being there plus $7 per flat rate hour. Our billable rate was $100/hr, so I got 14.5% of that. My wife's a professional (consultant) and bills out at 38% of her burdened rate. That's the problem.

My entry level job should have paid about 25-28% of its customer facing rate, leading up to 38% for a master tech. Maybe 35% to allow an extra 3% for the pricier worker's comp insurance. We're not there yet. Add in a dealership having a rep for being crooked, shorting hours, etc-- true or not, and people don't want to get into it.
 
Originally Posted by eljefino
When I worked at a tire shop I got $7.50/hr just for being there plus $7 per flat rate hour. Our billable rate was $100/hr, so I got 14.5% of that. My wife's a professional (consultant) and bills out at 38% of her burdened rate. That's the problem.

That's not a problem at all.
All it tells you is that you need to go into business for yourself...
 
Technician has a different meaning in different industries.

A mechanic is a fully trained blue collar type of workers that can fix mostly anything they come across in their line of work.
 
A lot of the local Indy guys here have been doing it for awhile and enjoy working on cars. I like working on my own cars when it's warm out and I do not have a deadline to finish.

Luckily I am much better at my IT job.
 
In modern automotive parlance, there is a difference between "mechanic" and "technician."

Here is the difference for me:
A mechanic is someone who repairs or replaces hard parts: axles, engines, transmissions, spark plugs, wheel bearings, water pumps, etc. No technical diagnosis, fine-tuning or adjustment is done by this person.
A technician is someone who does complex diagnosis and relies on computers or sensors for a large part of their work: fuel mapping, speedometer calibration, LED/dash display repairs, ABS or stability control systems, etc.
 
In Canada you have to be licensed by the government to be an auto-mechanic which involves classroom time usually at a community college, apprenticeship hours in the field and then exams. You can be a technician working in an automotive repair facility as long as a mechanic inspects your work but you wouldn't see this at a dealership or chain of repair shops like Canadian Tire, more so at Indie shops. A lot of teenagers will start out doing tire & oil changes to get a feel for the industry and then embark on schooling / apprenticeship.
 
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Originally Posted by DGXR
In modern automotive parlance, there is a difference between "mechanic" and "technician."

Here is the difference for me:
A mechanic is someone who repairs or replaces hard parts: axles, engines, transmissions, spark plugs, wheel bearings, water pumps, etc. No technical diagnosis, fine-tuning or adjustment is done by this person.
A technician is someone who does complex diagnosis and relies on computers or sensors for a large part of their work: fuel mapping, speedometer calibration, LED/dash display repairs, ABS or stability control systems, etc.


Today I do mostly diagnostics and body work/paint but I have done it all over the last 4+ decades except interiors (I mean building interiors from scratch) and I am still a mechanic. You want to be a technician get a lab coat a go to work in a friggin radiology lab.
I am so sick of the PC gang making my profession into something it isn't because it makes some friggin pin head feels better about doing the job they think others look down on.
 
Originally Posted by tiger862
A mechanic changes parts. A Technician will diagnose and repair with fewest comebacks. As my boss used to tell me I came from a different tree. I ran diagnostics on just about everything.


I like this one as I was talking with my brother earlier when my Dad was in the hospital since I don't see him much. I asked when he was working (major airline) as it was always the night shift. He said he had some leeway at this point in time (seniority) as he was one of the few who diagnosed the mechanical issue while most all the others were parts replacement guys. I wasn't sure if I should have felt comforted by that or not since I never fly that airline on domestic routes.
 
What about someone who diagnoses the problem...and then replaces the parts that fix the problem ? Are they the next level above technician ? No, they are just a mechanic.
 
A mechanic fixes the stuff others break?
Sometimes I am the mechanic; other times I am the other guy...
 
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