Napa conventional
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Originally Posted by PimTac
It would make no business sense to bottle the same oil and sell it as a generic store brand. There may be some similarities but not exactly the same as Valvoline's own product lines. This has been discussed many times before.
I wouldn't be surprised either way. With normal manufacturing variations, how can anyone really tell?
I thought that a lot of oils are basically API qualified with an additive pack combined with a commodity base oil blend. So in that case what does it really cost to make a different oil specifically for house brands, when Lubrizol or Chevron Oronite have already done the development for a more or less generic product.
It would make no business sense to bottle the same oil and sell it as a generic store brand. There may be some similarities but not exactly the same as Valvoline's own product lines. This has been discussed many times before.
I wouldn't be surprised either way. With normal manufacturing variations, how can anyone really tell?
I thought that a lot of oils are basically API qualified with an additive pack combined with a commodity base oil blend. So in that case what does it really cost to make a different oil specifically for house brands, when Lubrizol or Chevron Oronite have already done the development for a more or less generic product.
Originally Posted by PimTac
It would make no business sense to bottle the same oil and sell it as a generic store brand. There may be some similarities but not exactly the same as Valvoline's own product lines. This has been discussed many times before.
Yes it does your company is making money and the profit margins per quart is huge.
It would make no business sense to bottle the same oil and sell it as a generic store brand. There may be some similarities but not exactly the same as Valvoline's own product lines. This has been discussed many times before.
Yes it does your company is making money and the profit margins per quart is huge.
Nowhere did you show Valvoline Inc says it's the same. Standing behind NAPA only means NAPA is licensed and within spec.
That guy says absolutely nothing that both are the same.
The reason why he says nothing?...... because both aren't the same.
[/quote]
So you are saying that oil companies should give up there business strategy to public. No one not one oil company is going to say here is my formula and it is the same formula for all the companies that deal with them. I don't expect that to happen. When a company gives you SDS and you see Valvoline on it and they tell you it exceeds your vehicle requirements and they will stand by the product instead of saying that you have get Napa to warranty that speaks volumes for a company. Again it is made by Valvoline therefore it is Valvoline made oil sold by Napa.
That guy says absolutely nothing that both are the same.
The reason why he says nothing?...... because both aren't the same.
[/quote]
So you are saying that oil companies should give up there business strategy to public. No one not one oil company is going to say here is my formula and it is the same formula for all the companies that deal with them. I don't expect that to happen. When a company gives you SDS and you see Valvoline on it and they tell you it exceeds your vehicle requirements and they will stand by the product instead of saying that you have get Napa to warranty that speaks volumes for a company. Again it is made by Valvoline therefore it is Valvoline made oil sold by Napa.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by PimTac
It would make no business sense to bottle the same oil and sell it as a generic store brand. There may be some similarities but not exactly the same as Valvoline's own product lines. This has been discussed many times before.
Yes it does your company is making money and the profit margins per quart is huge.
So on that same line of thought, Pennzoil should make a oil for Pep Boys as an example that is the same oil as Ultra. Sell it for $5-6 bucks less. Pep Boys Ultra Synthetic.
Originally Posted by PimTac
It would make no business sense to bottle the same oil and sell it as a generic store brand. There may be some similarities but not exactly the same as Valvoline's own product lines. This has been discussed many times before.
Yes it does your company is making money and the profit margins per quart is huge.
So on that same line of thought, Pennzoil should make a oil for Pep Boys as an example that is the same oil as Ultra. Sell it for $5-6 bucks less. Pep Boys Ultra Synthetic.
Originally Posted by tiger862
So you are saying that oil companies should give up there business strategy to public. No one not one oil company is going to say here is my formula and it is the same formula for all the companies that deal with them. I don't expect that to happen. When a company gives you SDS and you see Valvoline on it and they tell you it exceeds your vehicle requirements and they will stand by the product instead of saying that you have get Napa to warranty that speaks volumes for a company. Again it is made by Valvoline therefore it is Valvoline made oil sold by Napa.
We're not likely to know if it's the same. And even if it's not the same, does it really matter? However, I have seen labels on house brands that compare it to a big name brand, but then are labelled that it is not manufactured nor marketed by the company who product they compare it to. Also - I've seen some labels that say that a particular product "is not sold as a store brand".
I know that there's a lot of marketing going into selling motor oils. But in the end a "conventional" API SN Plus 5W-20 is a commodity product as stated in this thread. Maybe it's different. Maybe it's not. But is it really going to make that much of a difference?
So you are saying that oil companies should give up there business strategy to public. No one not one oil company is going to say here is my formula and it is the same formula for all the companies that deal with them. I don't expect that to happen. When a company gives you SDS and you see Valvoline on it and they tell you it exceeds your vehicle requirements and they will stand by the product instead of saying that you have get Napa to warranty that speaks volumes for a company. Again it is made by Valvoline therefore it is Valvoline made oil sold by Napa.
We're not likely to know if it's the same. And even if it's not the same, does it really matter? However, I have seen labels on house brands that compare it to a big name brand, but then are labelled that it is not manufactured nor marketed by the company who product they compare it to. Also - I've seen some labels that say that a particular product "is not sold as a store brand".
I know that there's a lot of marketing going into selling motor oils. But in the end a "conventional" API SN Plus 5W-20 is a commodity product as stated in this thread. Maybe it's different. Maybe it's not. But is it really going to make that much of a difference?
I have never seen or heard of any engine being damaged using any certified oil.
If you do basic maintenance and regular oci you will go 200,000 miles or more whether you use ST or Amsoil.
Way too much handwringing over something as simple as oil.
If you do basic maintenance and regular oci you will go 200,000 miles or more whether you use ST or Amsoil.
Way too much handwringing over something as simple as oil.
Originally Posted by Dallas69
I have never seen or heard of any engine being damaged using any certified oil.
If you do basic maintenance and regular oci you will go 200,000 miles or more whether you use ST or Amsoil.
Way too much handwringing over something as simple as oil.
There have been cases where certified oils weren't enough, but higher performance ones seemed to help. I'm thinking the Honda VCM sludge problem. It was really a design defect. However, that didn't seem to be where there was much of a difference between using Pennzoil YB, Mobil Super, Valvoline WB, Castrol GTX, or any number of different generic house brands. The problem seemed to be avoided with early oil changes (before the OLM) or when something like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum was used.
I have never seen or heard of any engine being damaged using any certified oil.
If you do basic maintenance and regular oci you will go 200,000 miles or more whether you use ST or Amsoil.
Way too much handwringing over something as simple as oil.
There have been cases where certified oils weren't enough, but higher performance ones seemed to help. I'm thinking the Honda VCM sludge problem. It was really a design defect. However, that didn't seem to be where there was much of a difference between using Pennzoil YB, Mobil Super, Valvoline WB, Castrol GTX, or any number of different generic house brands. The problem seemed to be avoided with early oil changes (before the OLM) or when something like Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum was used.
Originally Posted by s2krunner
Ive been using on my Ford Ranger. Id thought they are same as Valvoline?
It's probably not exactly the same, but very similar.
Ive been using on my Ford Ranger. Id thought they are same as Valvoline?
It's probably not exactly the same, but very similar.
Would it really matter if they are or aren't the same? Like I said, but an additive pack that's already tested, combine it with a commodity base oil blend, pay the licensing fee, and there's your API EOLCS oil.
Valvoline wouldn't really need to develop anything if they wanted something that's "different" than their standard white bottle offering. I guess they could have a specific product to put their own name on.
I do remember when Target was selling Car & Driver brand parts including filters and motor oil. The oil was clearly using the same type of packaging equipment. The production code printing looked just like on the Valvoline bottles. Of course Target barely has any motor oil these days. Just Pennzoil and Mobil at my local stores. I remember when they had all the major brands.
Valvoline wouldn't really need to develop anything if they wanted something that's "different" than their standard white bottle offering. I guess they could have a specific product to put their own name on.
I do remember when Target was selling Car & Driver brand parts including filters and motor oil. The oil was clearly using the same type of packaging equipment. The production code printing looked just like on the Valvoline bottles. Of course Target barely has any motor oil these days. Just Pennzoil and Mobil at my local stores. I remember when they had all the major brands.
I just sent Valvoline an email to try and get PDS of Napa so if I get it I should be able to share.
They've got the SDS online. Says Valvoline as the manufacturer. Here's 5W-30.
https://media.napaonline.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/725893pdf?$PDF$
I can't seem to be able to enter anything on my current device.
https://sds.valvoline.com/?_ga=2.7543858.1837416475.1551055154-350787432.1551055154
https://media.napaonline.com/is/content/GenuinePartsCompany/725893pdf?$PDF$
I can't seem to be able to enter anything on my current device.
https://sds.valvoline.com/?_ga=2.7543858.1837416475.1551055154-350787432.1551055154
Finally got right person. Napa oil is not the same base as Valvoline no matter conventional or synthetic. This straight from Valvoline. He even sent me PDS which he claimed was public but I never could find it.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
If only it put it would to rest. We know it will come up again.
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
If only it put it would to rest. We know it will come up again.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by tiger862
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
If only it put it would to rest. We know it will come up again.
Of course the new question is whether or not it's better or just different.
I found the SDS for Valvoline "Daily Protection", which I guess is their new name for the white bottle version. They use a system where I can't link it. In fact it seems to generate an SDS on the spot with today's date.
So for the Napa 5W-30 (listed in 2016) I see this:
Quote
HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE 64742-54-7 50.00 - 70.00 %
HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE 64742-54-7 30.00 - 50.00 %
HYDROTREATED LIGHT PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE 64742-55-8 5.00 - 10.00 %
Benzenesulfonic acid, C10-60-alkyl derivs., sodium salts 90194-32-4 5.00 - 10.00 %
DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), SOLVENT- DEWAXED HEAVY PARAFFINIC 64742-65-0 1.00 - 5.00 %
For Valvoline Daily Protection 5W-30:
Quote
Lubricating oils (petroleum), hydrotreated 64742-58-1 >= 70.00 - < 90.00
PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64742-54-7 >= 1.00 - < 10.00
Reaction products of Benzeneamine, N-phenyl- with nonene (branched) 36878-20-3 >= 1.00 - < 10.00
Looks like Valvoline's white bottle is mostly Group II, while Napa is mostly Group I.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
If only it put it would to rest. We know it will come up again.
Of course the new question is whether or not it's better or just different.
I found the SDS for Valvoline "Daily Protection", which I guess is their new name for the white bottle version. They use a system where I can't link it. In fact it seems to generate an SDS on the spot with today's date.
So for the Napa 5W-30 (listed in 2016) I see this:
Quote
HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE 64742-54-7 50.00 - 70.00 %
HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE 64742-54-7 30.00 - 50.00 %
HYDROTREATED LIGHT PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE 64742-55-8 5.00 - 10.00 %
Benzenesulfonic acid, C10-60-alkyl derivs., sodium salts 90194-32-4 5.00 - 10.00 %
DISTILLATES (PETROLEUM), SOLVENT- DEWAXED HEAVY PARAFFINIC 64742-65-0 1.00 - 5.00 %
For Valvoline Daily Protection 5W-30:
Quote
Lubricating oils (petroleum), hydrotreated 64742-58-1 >= 70.00 - < 90.00
PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64742-54-7 >= 1.00 - < 10.00
Reaction products of Benzeneamine, N-phenyl- with nonene (branched) 36878-20-3 >= 1.00 - < 10.00
Looks like Valvoline's white bottle is mostly Group II, while Napa is mostly Group I.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
Do you realise the Napa sheets are generic? The data is minimum specs for Dexos/ISLAC it provides almost nothing.
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
Do you realise the Napa sheets are generic? The data is minimum specs for Dexos/ISLAC it provides almost nothing.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
Do you realise the Napa sheets are generic? The data is minimum specs for Dexos/ISLAC it provides almost nothing.
No I didn't. Please tell us more.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
Do you realise the Napa sheets are generic? The data is minimum specs for Dexos/ISLAC it provides almost nothing.
No I didn't. Please tell us more.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
Do you realise the Napa sheets are generic? The data is minimum specs for Dexos/ISLAC it provides almost nothing.
I looked up their SDS sheets, which aren't generic. They're marked as produced by Valvoline. Now I suppose they could be outdated since they seem to indicate a primarily Group I base oil.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Thanks for getting those. That should put this question to rest.
Do you realise the Napa sheets are generic? The data is minimum specs for Dexos/ISLAC it provides almost nothing.
I looked up their SDS sheets, which aren't generic. They're marked as produced by Valvoline. Now I suppose they could be outdated since they seem to indicate a primarily Group I base oil.
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