I got a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with 102,600 miles. The rear brakes are running low and likely won't pass next inspection. The last inspection the right rear took on some significant wear compared to the year before. Would that mean its time for caliper replacement? What calipers would you recommend? I thought about Raybestos Element3. What about rotor and pads?
brake rotors, pads, and calipers
- Thread starter NH73
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Check if the hub is warmer than the others after some city driving. This would indicate sticking pads, which would accelerate wear.
A lot of calipers get replaced that aren't at fault. First, pull the pins that secure the caliper to the bracket, clean them very throughly and re-grease them, preferrably with SilGlyde or other high-temp grease. This is the source of a lot of caliper "sticking" and it's (virtually) free to repair vs. a new caliper.
I have had great success with Raybestos ceramic pads, both grades - Professional and "Service." Never found the accelerated wear from semi-metallic pads to be worth it on a non high-performance vehicle.
A lot of calipers get replaced that aren't at fault. First, pull the pins that secure the caliper to the bracket, clean them very throughly and re-grease them, preferrably with SilGlyde or other high-temp grease. This is the source of a lot of caliper "sticking" and it's (virtually) free to repair vs. a new caliper.
I have had great success with Raybestos ceramic pads, both grades - Professional and "Service." Never found the accelerated wear from semi-metallic pads to be worth it on a non high-performance vehicle.
Originally Posted by NH73
I got a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with 102,600 miles. The rear brakes are running low and likely won't pass next inspection. The last inspection the right rear took on some significant wear compared to the year before. Would that mean its time for caliper replacement? What calipers would you recommend? I thought about Raybestos Element3. What about rotor and pads?
Have used and recommend Raybestos Element 3 EHT Calipers/Rotors and Pads... For a couple of dollars cheaper you can use their service grade pads and rotors but i have no idea why they price them so close together..
As for your right rear taking significant wear... have you inspected the slide pins? Perhaps they are just due for a cleaning and lube with Silglyde.
Pad ears should be able to move free in the hardware as well.
Last but not least, if its a keeper and you plan on more miles and you replace a caliper..do it in pairs..along with hoses.
I got a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with 102,600 miles. The rear brakes are running low and likely won't pass next inspection. The last inspection the right rear took on some significant wear compared to the year before. Would that mean its time for caliper replacement? What calipers would you recommend? I thought about Raybestos Element3. What about rotor and pads?
Have used and recommend Raybestos Element 3 EHT Calipers/Rotors and Pads... For a couple of dollars cheaper you can use their service grade pads and rotors but i have no idea why they price them so close together..
As for your right rear taking significant wear... have you inspected the slide pins? Perhaps they are just due for a cleaning and lube with Silglyde.
Pad ears should be able to move free in the hardware as well.
Last but not least, if its a keeper and you plan on more miles and you replace a caliper..do it in pairs..along with hoses.
The Element3 calipers are a good choice. All-new, not reman, and they seem to be of good quality.
EBC Ultimax pads and EBC Premium rotors are a good choice. If you want a little more, there is the greenstuff 6000 pads. Autoanything has the best price on EBC.
Other good rotors include Wagner E-coated, Centric Premium, and Powerstop coated.Akebono pads are good, too.
EBC Ultimax pads and EBC Premium rotors are a good choice. If you want a little more, there is the greenstuff 6000 pads. Autoanything has the best price on EBC.
Other good rotors include Wagner E-coated, Centric Premium, and Powerstop coated.Akebono pads are good, too.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
The Element3 calipers are a good choice. All-new, not reman, and they seem to be of good quality.
EBC Ultimax pads and EBC Premium rotors are a good choice. If you want a little more, there is the greenstuff 6000 pads. Autoanything has the best price on EBC.
Other good rotors include Wagner E-coated, Centric Premium, and Powerstop coated.Akebono pads are good, too.
Do EBCs still have issues with terrible cold performance? I've been considering a set but where I live it's very cold (there hasn't been a day above freezing yet this month) and so that'd be no good for me.
The Element3 calipers are a good choice. All-new, not reman, and they seem to be of good quality.
EBC Ultimax pads and EBC Premium rotors are a good choice. If you want a little more, there is the greenstuff 6000 pads. Autoanything has the best price on EBC.
Other good rotors include Wagner E-coated, Centric Premium, and Powerstop coated.Akebono pads are good, too.
Do EBCs still have issues with terrible cold performance? I've been considering a set but where I live it's very cold (there hasn't been a day above freezing yet this month) and so that'd be no good for me.
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Do EBCs still have issues with terrible cold performance? I've been considering a set but where I live it's very cold (there hasn't been a day above freezing yet this month) and so that'd be no good for me.
My Ultimax/Blackstuff pads have been fine in single-digit temps
I have heard of the higher Redstuff and Yellowstuff having problems when it's cold. But the daily driver Ultimax pads are fine.
Do EBCs still have issues with terrible cold performance? I've been considering a set but where I live it's very cold (there hasn't been a day above freezing yet this month) and so that'd be no good for me.
My Ultimax/Blackstuff pads have been fine in single-digit temps
I have heard of the higher Redstuff and Yellowstuff having problems when it's cold. But the daily driver Ultimax pads are fine.
No, you have (so far) given no reason to replace the calipers. Replace them if they are leaking, or once you start the brake job if you see severe piston corrosion.
Otherwise, you just need new pads and "usually" new rotors. If you park on steep incline you may want to check the function of your parking brake to make sure it works acceptably or else it may need new pads too... the rotors have a drum in the back that the pads ride in and old worn pads with new rotors may not seat well and give poor parking brake performance in significant incline parking.
A typical problem with the uneven wear typical for the Explorers is the caliper slider rails have rust buildup. Take off and replace the stainless slider hardware, clean the rust off the slider rails, put a coat of silicone grease on them, put the new stainless slide on, put a coat of silicone grease on top of that too. Certainly the caliper slide pins should be checked and re-greased as needed but slider rail rust usually becomes more of a problem, sooner on those.
You do not need to replace the calipers in pairs. There is zero benefit in doing that if the replacement is the same OEM-equivalent. This is not like pads and rotors which need both sides replaced at same time, a new caliper built to same specs will not cause unequal braking performance. On the other hand, if your environment is causing one to fail (leak or severely rust the piston), there may not be much life left in the other one and being brakes, it can be worth a few dollars more to make sure everything has the lowest failure potential possible and obviously replacement while doing brakes is the best time, while it's right there off and accessible, and they don't cost much. Your call.
You also do not need and would be wasting money on high performance parts here. Most of your braking is done by the front wheels and it could be worse to bias it towards more braking performance in the rear without a corresponding increase in the front first. Since those vehicles were not known for having weak brakes, the best cost effective solution is stick with the stock setup unless you have an extreme use where that isn't enough, like towing near max capacity and/or use on long, steep hills.
Otherwise, you just need new pads and "usually" new rotors. If you park on steep incline you may want to check the function of your parking brake to make sure it works acceptably or else it may need new pads too... the rotors have a drum in the back that the pads ride in and old worn pads with new rotors may not seat well and give poor parking brake performance in significant incline parking.
A typical problem with the uneven wear typical for the Explorers is the caliper slider rails have rust buildup. Take off and replace the stainless slider hardware, clean the rust off the slider rails, put a coat of silicone grease on them, put the new stainless slide on, put a coat of silicone grease on top of that too. Certainly the caliper slide pins should be checked and re-greased as needed but slider rail rust usually becomes more of a problem, sooner on those.
You do not need to replace the calipers in pairs. There is zero benefit in doing that if the replacement is the same OEM-equivalent. This is not like pads and rotors which need both sides replaced at same time, a new caliper built to same specs will not cause unequal braking performance. On the other hand, if your environment is causing one to fail (leak or severely rust the piston), there may not be much life left in the other one and being brakes, it can be worth a few dollars more to make sure everything has the lowest failure potential possible and obviously replacement while doing brakes is the best time, while it's right there off and accessible, and they don't cost much. Your call.
You also do not need and would be wasting money on high performance parts here. Most of your braking is done by the front wheels and it could be worse to bias it towards more braking performance in the rear without a corresponding increase in the front first. Since those vehicles were not known for having weak brakes, the best cost effective solution is stick with the stock setup unless you have an extreme use where that isn't enough, like towing near max capacity and/or use on long, steep hills.
I haven't had good luck with "old" rear calipers. After 5 years / 100k they seem to be a gamble, and mostly have failed after getting the piston pushed in, if not immediately then soon enough. In a salt state I'd weigh the cost and effort of replacing. Worst case, you have to buy another set of pads (along with caliper(s)). Just my experience across 4 or so vehicles (front calipers haven't had the issue, it's odd).
I did the EHT pads on my Camry and like them enough that I'll probably use them on my other cars going forward. I don't do the coated rotors, but I do slap anti-seize behind the rotor to make the job easier next time.
I did the EHT pads on my Camry and like them enough that I'll probably use them on my other cars going forward. I don't do the coated rotors, but I do slap anti-seize behind the rotor to make the job easier next time.
Good advice here. Is it possible that the mechanic got the measurement wrong? Yes. I take it to the dealer for inspection, because they do free inspection. I have caught then once for a mis-measurement. So I am debating if I would just take it for inspection to see if it passes or not. The other thing, I would like to have calipers on hand if they are to be replaced. Is there anything I can look at without taking things apart? As far as my plan for the vehicle, I am thinking to keep it for about 5 years. It essentially is going to be a low mileage vehicle.
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Originally Posted by NH73
I got a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with 102,600 miles. The rear brakes are running low and likely won't pass next inspection. The last inspection the right rear took on some significant wear compared to the year before. Would that mean its time for caliper replacement? What calipers would you recommend? I thought about Raybestos Element3.
Sorry I don't have any experience with Element3 calipers. I have had good luck with NAPA rebuilt calipers.
Funny, I've been considering pre-emptive rear caliper replacement on the 2005 Pilot when putting on the new set of pads and rotors I just got. Normally I wait until stuff actually breaks or malfunctions. But my last set of rotors and pads are meeting an early end because the caliper pins got washed dry and stuck, and even though that's fixed and the brakes work OK, they sound swishy all the time and grindy when used, the usual symptoms of pads that have tilted in use. So I also have all-new pins and boots I'm throwing on with the pads and rotors. Soon.
So that got me thinking, the only thing left is hoses and calipers and I'll have all-new brakes. So I checked and genuine Honda rear brake hoses are only $34 a pair plus shipping at Majestic. Deal! So I ordered some. Calipers, of course, are much more, new or rebuilt.
But then I'm thinking some more, if the calipers go out on me (I was reading the phenolic caliper piston thread), this set of pads & rotors might meet an early demise just like the current set. If I just toss some rebuilt calipers on there I may go to end of life without touching the rear brakes again, well, except for the annual check, clean and re-grease.
But now I have more time to think about it. As of this weekend the Honda is having new transmission problems. So I'm not doing jack on the brakes until that is sorted out. I may have just reached end of life anyway.
Originally Posted by NH73
What about rotor and pads?
I highly recommend the combination of NAPA Ultra Premium and AdaptiveOne brake pads, they are doing great on the front of my Pilot, but wow are they pricey. I don't recommend Wagner ThermoQuiet pads, as they have failed to be quiet, feel a bit spongy, and are just OK pads at a premium price.
But for the rears of my Pilot I just received another option recommended on this board, Raybestos Element3 coated rotors and matching Element3 pads. But I have to wait on actually installing them before I give a full-throated recommendation.
I got a 2004 Ford Explorer Sport Trac with 102,600 miles. The rear brakes are running low and likely won't pass next inspection. The last inspection the right rear took on some significant wear compared to the year before. Would that mean its time for caliper replacement? What calipers would you recommend? I thought about Raybestos Element3.
Sorry I don't have any experience with Element3 calipers. I have had good luck with NAPA rebuilt calipers.
Funny, I've been considering pre-emptive rear caliper replacement on the 2005 Pilot when putting on the new set of pads and rotors I just got. Normally I wait until stuff actually breaks or malfunctions. But my last set of rotors and pads are meeting an early end because the caliper pins got washed dry and stuck, and even though that's fixed and the brakes work OK, they sound swishy all the time and grindy when used, the usual symptoms of pads that have tilted in use. So I also have all-new pins and boots I'm throwing on with the pads and rotors. Soon.
So that got me thinking, the only thing left is hoses and calipers and I'll have all-new brakes. So I checked and genuine Honda rear brake hoses are only $34 a pair plus shipping at Majestic. Deal! So I ordered some. Calipers, of course, are much more, new or rebuilt.
But then I'm thinking some more, if the calipers go out on me (I was reading the phenolic caliper piston thread), this set of pads & rotors might meet an early demise just like the current set. If I just toss some rebuilt calipers on there I may go to end of life without touching the rear brakes again, well, except for the annual check, clean and re-grease.
But now I have more time to think about it. As of this weekend the Honda is having new transmission problems. So I'm not doing jack on the brakes until that is sorted out. I may have just reached end of life anyway.
Originally Posted by NH73
What about rotor and pads?
I highly recommend the combination of NAPA Ultra Premium and AdaptiveOne brake pads, they are doing great on the front of my Pilot, but wow are they pricey. I don't recommend Wagner ThermoQuiet pads, as they have failed to be quiet, feel a bit spongy, and are just OK pads at a premium price.
But for the rears of my Pilot I just received another option recommended on this board, Raybestos Element3 coated rotors and matching Element3 pads. But I have to wait on actually installing them before I give a full-throated recommendation.
Quote
…. I don't recommend Wagner ThermoQuiet pads, as they have failed to be quiet, feel a bit spongy, and are just OK pads at a premium price..
My experience with Wagner TQ's combined with AAP Wearever (now Carquest) rotors on the fronts of a Tacoma, not the same. They've been quiet, very low dust and do a good job of stopping the truck. I've been satisfied. It's been several years, I paid ~$32 at Amazon for the TQ pads and at the time there was a $15 rebate. Looking now at Amazon, price for same pads ~$9 less.
Not doubting your anecdote, just noting a different experience with TQs.
Last October I installed Raybestos RPTs now called Element3, RPT still on box. It's not been a long time, but no complaints to this point. They were paired with Akebono ProAct pads on an Accord.
…. I don't recommend Wagner ThermoQuiet pads, as they have failed to be quiet, feel a bit spongy, and are just OK pads at a premium price..
My experience with Wagner TQ's combined with AAP Wearever (now Carquest) rotors on the fronts of a Tacoma, not the same. They've been quiet, very low dust and do a good job of stopping the truck. I've been satisfied. It's been several years, I paid ~$32 at Amazon for the TQ pads and at the time there was a $15 rebate. Looking now at Amazon, price for same pads ~$9 less.
Not doubting your anecdote, just noting a different experience with TQs.
Last October I installed Raybestos RPTs now called Element3, RPT still on box. It's not been a long time, but no complaints to this point. They were paired with Akebono ProAct pads on an Accord.
Originally Posted by Sayjac
My experience with Wagner TQ's combined with AAP Wearever (now Carquest) rotors on the fronts of a Tacoma, not the same. They've been quiet, very low dust and do a good job of stopping the truck. I've been satisfied. It's been several years, I paid ~$32 at Amazon for the TQ pads and at the time there was a $15 rebate. Looking now at Amazon, price for same pads ~$9 less.
Not doubting your anecdote, just noting a different experience with TQs.
I put TQ pads and Raybestos RPT/E3 rotors on the front and rear of my wife's Fusion. No dust and no noise at all.
My experience with Wagner TQ's combined with AAP Wearever (now Carquest) rotors on the fronts of a Tacoma, not the same. They've been quiet, very low dust and do a good job of stopping the truck. I've been satisfied. It's been several years, I paid ~$32 at Amazon for the TQ pads and at the time there was a $15 rebate. Looking now at Amazon, price for same pads ~$9 less.
Not doubting your anecdote, just noting a different experience with TQs.
I put TQ pads and Raybestos RPT/E3 rotors on the front and rear of my wife's Fusion. No dust and no noise at all.
Originally Posted by Sayjac
My experience with Wagner TQ's combined with AAP Wearever (now Carquest) rotors on the fronts of a Tacoma, not the same. They've been quiet, very low dust and do a good job of stopping the truck. I've been satisfied. It's been several years, I paid ~$32 at Amazon for the TQ pads and at the time there was a $15 rebate. Looking now at Amazon, price for same pads ~$9 less.
Not doubting your anecdote, just noting a different experience with TQs.
Last October I installed Raybestos RPTs now called Element3, RPT still on box. It's not been a long time, but no complaints to this point. They were paired with Akebono ProAct pads on an Accord.
No problem. Different applications, that's why it's important to consider the application when getting advice.
TQ's are an OEM replacement pad, I'm guessing my Corolla's TQ's are ceramic and your trucks' are semi-metallic? Anyway since they have to match OEM chemistry and specs, they are not likely to be the same friction material. Only the pad backs are going to have the same quiet material treatment. Yes, dust level on mine is acceptable. Longevity is fine too. But I noticed they felt soft the moment I tried them new, and bedding and bleeding hasn't change that. I'm not overly picky about pad feel like some, but these I can tell the difference.
My experience with Wagner TQ's combined with AAP Wearever (now Carquest) rotors on the fronts of a Tacoma, not the same. They've been quiet, very low dust and do a good job of stopping the truck. I've been satisfied. It's been several years, I paid ~$32 at Amazon for the TQ pads and at the time there was a $15 rebate. Looking now at Amazon, price for same pads ~$9 less.
Not doubting your anecdote, just noting a different experience with TQs.
Last October I installed Raybestos RPTs now called Element3, RPT still on box. It's not been a long time, but no complaints to this point. They were paired with Akebono ProAct pads on an Accord.
No problem. Different applications, that's why it's important to consider the application when getting advice.
TQ's are an OEM replacement pad, I'm guessing my Corolla's TQ's are ceramic and your trucks' are semi-metallic? Anyway since they have to match OEM chemistry and specs, they are not likely to be the same friction material. Only the pad backs are going to have the same quiet material treatment. Yes, dust level on mine is acceptable. Longevity is fine too. But I noticed they felt soft the moment I tried them new, and bedding and bleeding hasn't change that. I'm not overly picky about pad feel like some, but these I can tell the difference.
Ok, I get that I have no good reasons for caliper replacement, but Hangfire gave me reason. I talked to the dealer about the previous year of unusual wearing, but there only reply is setup an appointment to take a look. Now I have not been getting any grinding noises or low brake indicators, and have put about 5000 miles since last inspection. What could else could create a unusual wear that wouldn't require caliper replacement? I assume most garages wouldn't do anything other than replace calipers if caliper related.
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