PUP is now SN + ??? Formulation change??

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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by PimTac
I wish I knew where to find that graphic that wemay posted a while back that clearly showed what d1G2 covered and what SN+ covered.

I vaguely remember that SN+ added the timing chain protection that the other did not. Anyone else remember?


I think you mean this Pim Tac...

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4770868/1





That explains it well. There was a graphic from Infineum or someone else that was interactive. It's been a while.
 
Originally Posted by Lazydan
Thank you!!

So timing chain protection is the difference.... I'm assuming that's to protect timing chain from high levels of fuel contamination that get into the oil on these TGDI engines??

So the question then becomes.... why does PP protect the timing chain while the (supposedly) better "more expensive" PUP not have the timing chain protection....

Especially if PUP was just reformulated for SN PLUS.... why the [censored] would it still be inferior to PP......?

This is absolute insanity, and an incredible marketing/product fail on Shell's part...

That would be like releasing a new top tier iPhone that's slower and overall worse than the mid grade model........





My understanding is that it is protection against microscopic soot which GDI engines produce that gets into the oil and is not caught by the filter.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Lazydan
Thank you!!

So timing chain protection is the difference.... I'm assuming that's to protect timing chain from high levels of fuel contamination that get into the oil on these TGDI engines??

So the question then becomes.... why does PP protect the timing chain while the (supposedly) better "more expensive" PUP not have the timing chain protection....

Especially if PUP was just reformulated for SN PLUS.... why the [censored] would it still be inferior to PP......?

This is absolute insanity, and an incredible marketing/product fail on Shell's part...

That would be like releasing a new top tier iPhone that's slower and overall worse than the mid grade model........





My understanding is that it is protection against microscopic soot which GDI engines produce that gets into the oil and is not caught by the filter.


Yes this is what I'm talking about, soot forms from incomplete fuel combustion, high levels in oil with these TGDI engines

I suppose the idea is Platinum for TGDI and they are keeping using the ULTRA platinum line is a high cal oil for non- DI engines....

but that doesn't explain why they have removed the 25% clamer pistons claim from the bottle.... and obviously reduced the cal on this ULTRA to make it SN PLUS......

Very confusing.....
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Lazydan
Well this settles it for me.....

After 5 years of using PUP, I am now switching to the superior PP none ultra version.

Epic fail by shell to have your "top" product, which you've just reformulated still not match up to your "mid" tier product that was reformulated over a year ago... what a joke...

So you're back now with this screen name, spewing your silly anti-SOPUS nonsense. That didn't take long.

Lol "Lazydan".


Sorry I don't follow?

I've clearly stated I've been using PUP for years and am looking at switching to PP for my TGDI because the PUP line is a mystery at best right now and a complete disaster at worst for TGDI engines....

These are all SOPUS products.... so how am I anti SOPUS?
 
Originally Posted by Lazydan
I don't understand how an oil can meet SN PLUS, but not dexos1 gen2.... as both specs were designed to mitigate the same thing (LSPI).

The difference being Dexos is a GM cert.


SN Plus cert (by API) has nothing to do with the GM cert. However, dexos1 Gen2 oil can or can not also be SN Plus rated.

Motorcraft oil is an example of a non dexos1 Gen2 rated oil that is SN Plus rated to combat LSPI. SN Plus is specific to LSPI.
 
Originally Posted by Lazydan
And the fact that an oil can be SN PLUS but not D1G2 tells me that d1g2 is a tougher spec to meet, I.e. better oil for the TGDI... but it would be nice to get an official amswer on this...


Not so sure about dexos1 Gen2 being specifically formulated for LSPI. If it was, I'd think it would also get the SN Plus rating from the API. If anyone can find a link from an official source that dexos1 Gen2 is formulated for LSPI, please post up the link(s). I looked a while back and didn't find anything definitive.
 
Originally Posted by Lazydan
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Lazydan
Well this settles it for me.....

After 5 years of using PUP, I am now switching to the superior PP none ultra version.

Epic fail by shell to have your "top" product, which you've just reformulated still not match up to your "mid" tier product that was reformulated over a year ago... what a joke...

So you're back now with this screen name, spewing your silly anti-SOPUS nonsense. That didn't take long.

Lol "Lazydan".


Sorry I don't follow?

I've clearly stated I've been using PUP for years and am looking at switching to PP for my TGDI because the PUP line is a mystery at best right now and a complete disaster at worst for TGDI engines....

These are all SOPUS products.... so how am I anti SOPUS?


Lol but the voices are telling him your not who you say you are!
I'm sure the pp will serve you well, Lazydan.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Lazydan
And the fact that an oil can be SN PLUS but not D1G2 tells me that d1g2 is a tougher spec to meet, I.e. better oil for the TGDI... but it would be nice to get an official amswer on this...


Not so sure about dexos1 Gen2 being specifically formulated for LSPI. If it was, I'd think it would also get the SN Plus rating from the API. If anyone can find a link from an official source that dexos1 Gen2 is formulated for LSPI, please post up the link(s). I looked a while back and didn't find anything definitive.


GM d1g2 was released long before SN PLUS, and it's main spec difference to normal SN was LSPI prevention among a few other things ...

SN PLUS came afterwards because until ILSAC GF6 comes into effect, there was no industry universal LSPI spec.... it wouldn't make much sense for a new Honda GTDI for example to recommend a d1g2 oil for LSPI as it's a GM spec.... enter SN PLUS....

This is why all Dexos1 Gen2 oils automatically added SN PLUS approval from right from day one when it came into effect in 2018....

Pennzoil makes reference to it right on their website here:
[Linked Image]
 
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Thanks for the screenshot. If you're concerned about LSPI, then use anything that is dexos1 Gen2 (with or without the SN Plus rating), or something that's just SN Plus rated.

There are quite a few oils out there now that are dexos1 Gen2 with the SN Plus rating.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Thanks for the screenshot. If you're concerned about LSPI, then use anything that is dexos1 Gen2 (with or without the SN Plus rating), or something that's just SN Plus rated.

There are quite a few oils out there now that are dexos1 Gen2 with the SN Plus rating.


This^
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
I'm willing to bet that the lack of a d1g2 license has nothing to do with its ability to pass.

Never judge a book by it's cover.
Believe what it says - not what it doesn't say.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
I'm willing to bet that the lack of a d1g2 license has nothing to do with its ability to pass.

Never judge a book by it's cover.
Believe what it says - not what it doesn't say.

thumbsup2.gif
 
For legacy engines (like my Toyota) I'll seek out the straight-up API SN with their high SAPS and Ca, served the fleet well proven by the stellar UOA's they produced...they were formulated in that pattern for years, why?
 
PUP will be going in the Sportage after the Havoline. It's still a great oil and i haven't any concerns about it's formulation.
 
Originally Posted by dblshock
... I'll seek out the straight-up API SN with their high SAPS and Ca, ...


Looks like that in the near future you will not be able to find it in a brand you are comfortable using.
 
Pennzoil knows people shopping for oil see "dexos1" and think that's only for GM engines. Consumers don't know its actually a higher spec applicable to any non-German, non-high-HTHS engine.
Therefore, Pennzoil only loses most of the GM market for PUP, which is an oil they don't market or distribute aggressively anyway.
Also, they know many people with GM engines will buy it anyway because they don't read the Owner's Manual about using a dexos1 oil too, so they do capture some of the GM market. Also, more GM engines are eligible that were made before 2011 that can use the PUP, so there is that market.
Bottom line: It could be simply a marketing choice that PUP isn't technically dexos1 Gen2, not a performance reality.

What dexos1 Gen2 covers, over the first gen dexos1:
[Linked Image]


I've never seen where the timing chain tests get in there. Maybe an artifact of one of the tests there. The future GF-6 will have it, and Mercedes specs have it already now.
 
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Wait, you found PUP on a store shelf?
crazy2.gif



The OP is in Canada and it's very easy to find Ultra Platinum up here, every Canadian Tire store stocks plenty of it.
 
Originally Posted by Lazydan

GM d1g2 was released long before SN PLUS, and it's main spec difference to normal SN was LSPI prevention among a few other things ...

SN PLUS came afterwards because until ILSAC GF6 comes into effect, there was no industry universal LSPI spec.... it wouldn't make much sense for a new Honda GTDI for example to recommend a d1g2 oil for LSPI as it's a GM spec.... enter SN PLUS....

This is why all Dexos1 Gen2 oils automatically added SN PLUS approval from right from day one when it came into effect in 2018....

I think it's very likely that any oil that meets d1G2 will also meet SN+, but their LSPI tests are in two different engines (2.0l Ecoboost vs. 2.0l Ecotec) and I'm honestly not sure how the test conditions and pass/fail criteria compare.
I don't have any issue with using an SN+ oil that doesn't meet d1G2, although I would agree that the latter is a more demanding standard.
I am thinking hard about running M1 10W30 HM this summer as it is now SN+...it can't possibly be d1G2 as that grade is not covered by that standard.
Of course, I have thought hard in the past about running all kinds of oils that I never actually bought...
 
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