Going by HTHS

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I think I'm going to go back to 5w20 when my 0w30 OCI is done. I have enough miles in a short amount of time it will be a perfect test case to prove there is nothing wrong with 20wt and lower HTHS that is still within the limits of the OE specification.

Heck I'll even do UOA's along the way with the Wix $10 kits for trending.
 
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Originally Posted by JLTD
... Well I am lookiing at oils for the 4Runner...0w-20 is of course specified in the US, and likely would be fine. Elsewhere in the world, up to a 40 grade oil is specified. ...
Specified, recommended, or permitted? There's a difference.
 
Automotive engineers know enough of what they are doing by designing their vehicles and specifying weights for it--not only including safe HTHS values, but taking into account a predicted amount of operational variance of those key parameters (again, HTHS being one). They design it to last as long as their team/company need it to, and warranty it under a list of defined terms for "death."

Death, unacceptable wear, and engine longevity desired from end users varies--a lot.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
I think I'm going to go back to 5w20 when my 0w30 OCI is done. I have enough miles in a short amount of time it will be a perfect test case to prove there is nothing wrong with 20wt and lower HTHS that is still within the limits of the OE specification.

Heck I'll even do UOA's along the way with the Wix $10 kits for trending.


Hopefully tracking fuel usage along the way?


Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by JLTD
... Well I am lookiing at oils for the 4Runner...0w-20 is of course specified in the US, and likely would be fine. Elsewhere in the world, up to a 40 grade oil is specified. ...
Specified, recommended, or permitted? There's a difference.


Sure is; that's a very complex question and part of the discussion on every thick vs thin vs hths vs what-the-heck-oil-do-I-run thread.
 
I track for taxes / work anyway... No worries.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Shannow


Look at the picture that I posted...I included the name of the source in writing in the grey box lower right.

Are you aware of any legitimate, honest way to get that document without paying over $50 US to ASTM? That's what they want for just the pdf, never mind hard copy... You can probably answer specific questions, such as I asked, by quoting/posting particular bits from the document, and fall safely within "fair use".
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I track for taxes / work anyway... No worries.
thumbsup2.gif



Looking forward to the results. I'm sure you will get there first...it will take a couple of years at least for me to run the distance for the tests.
 
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by StevieC
I track for taxes / work anyway... No worries.
thumbsup2.gif



Looking forward to the results. I'm sure you will get there first...it will take a couple of years at least for me to run the distance for the tests.

I've done 22,000km (13,750 miles) on the Caravan in 4 months. I think I might win that race.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I think I'm going to go back to 5w20 when my 0w30 OCI is done. I have enough miles in a short amount of time it will be a perfect test case to prove there is nothing wrong with 20wt and lower HTHS that is still within the limits of the OE specification.

Heck I'll even do UOA's along the way with the Wix $10 kits for trending.


UOAs and gas mileage changes are not a very controlled ways to try and measure wear and performance difference between oils. Need much more sophisticated and controlled test methods to show how viscosity and HTSH affects engine wear. You've seen the many technical links and info posted before (ie, that scary engineering stuff - lol).
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I intend to drive the van until the wheels come off which should be far past what a normal person will keep their vehicle for which will make the "worry" about using 0w40 in 5w20 application irrelevant.
 
Originally Posted by Brian553
They design it to last as long as their team/company need it to



That has basically been my contention all along, I'm not against "thin" oil, I just don't buy the belief that it is the ideal oil for most situations because that is the oil that is spec'd.

It may be that it is the best oil to spec inside the confines of which the engineers have to work such as CAFE regulations and planned/incidental obsolescence etc...

Given free reign, would a "thin" oil be the choice of the engineer? I doubt it.
 
Originally Posted by TurboLuver
...
Given free reign, would a "thin" oil be the choice of the engineer? I doubt it.
Rein, not reign or rain! (That metaphorical reference has to do with steering horses, not with royalty.)

Only as thick as necessary to eliminate insufficient viscosity as a significant factor in vehicle life.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I intend to drive the van until the wheels come off which should be far past what a normal person will keep their vehicle for which will make the "worry" about using 0w40 in 5w20 application irrelevant.


It's pretty clear that no amount of facts or test results that don't agree with your opinion will change your mind on the subject.

Btw, the highway driving you do that racks up the miles that fast creates much less wear than doing 300-400k miles over 35-40 years (for example my daily driver and what I hope to get out of it). So making a choice based on real test results (instead of Stevie's opinion from the UOAs he's seen here) would likely make more of a difference in my case. I also have the unknown wear already put on by the first few owners over 27 years of probably the cheapest conventional oil to worry about.
 
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by Shannow


Look at the picture that I posted...I included the name of the source in writing in the grey box lower right.

Are you aware of any legitimate, honest way to get that document without paying over $50 US to ASTM? That's what they want for just the pdf, never mind hard copy... You can probably answer specific questions, such as I asked, by quoting/posting particular bits from the document, and fall safely within "fair use".


For stuff I find really interesting, I'll pay for the paper...for stuff like this, all I can suggest is using various key word searches and finding the google docs version, which may or may not have pages redacted...pages that you can find by using a slightly different turn of phrase.

For example using "apparent viscosity main bearing RPM"...get you to exactly that pic in the paper...

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...osity%20main%20bearing%20RPM&f=false
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by StevieC
I track for taxes / work anyway... No worries.
thumbsup2.gif



Looking forward to the results. I'm sure you will get there first...it will take a couple of years at least for me to run the distance for the tests.

I've done 22,000km (13,750 miles) on the Caravan in 4 months. I think I might win that race.
lol.gif



Most definitely... no contest there.
 
Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Originally Posted by StevieC
I intend to drive the van until the wheels come off which should be far past what a normal person will keep their vehicle for which will make the "worry" about using 0w40 in 5w20 application irrelevant.


It's pretty clear that no amount of facts or test results that don't agree with your opinion will change your mind on the subject.

Btw, the highway driving you do that racks up the miles that fast creates much less wear than doing 300-400k miles over 35-40 years (for example my daily driver and what I hope to get out of it). So making a choice based on real test results (instead of Stevie's opinion from the UOAs he's seen here) would likely make more of a difference in my case. I also have the unknown wear already put on by the first few owners over 27 years of probably the cheapest conventional oil to worry about.

And the vehicles over the past decade filled at Jiffy Boob with 5w20? Guess the OE's should shorten warranties on the 0w16 Camry and the vehicles in the future coming with 0w8.
smirk2.gif
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
And the vehicles over the past decade filled at Jiffy Boob with 5w20? Guess the OE's should shorten warranties on the 0w16 Camry and the vehicles in the future coming with 0w8.
smirk2.gif



With respect to 20
16/20 = 80% life.
8/20 = 40% life.

J/K LoL ...
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by StevieC
And the vehicles over the past decade filled at Jiffy Boob with 5w20? Guess the OE's should shorten warranties on the 0w16 Camry and the vehicles in the future coming with 0w8.
smirk2.gif



With respect to 20
16/20 = 80% life.
8/20 = 40% life.

J/K LoL ...
grin2.gif


To some here they think this literally.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted by CR94
Rein, not reign or rain! (That metaphorical reference has to do with steering horses, not with royalty.)


lol, sorry my accidental eggcorn rubbed you the wrong way.

Originally Posted by CR94
Only as thick as necessary to eliminate insufficient viscosity as a significant factor in vehicle life.


I understand that, what I am questioning is the specified viscosity range.
 
My go-to summer oil for my LML Duramax is 50/50 Duron SAE30 & SAE 40.

40C 110
100C 12.7
150C 3.8


Back in the day, Duramax listed SAE 30 and 10W30 as optional grades. Then the horsepower and torque was increased and the 30 grades were dropped.

The 2017-2019 L5P has redesigned rod bearings, but again the torque and horsepower is higher. (T910, HP 445). The two grades listed in the owner's manual are 5W40 and 15W40 depending on ambient.

Typically the HTHS on those two grades are between 3.8 and 4.3

My mono-grade blend has the lowest KV100C that yields the minimum 3.8 HTHS required.

Why do chipped and deleted diesels often drop their cranks on the pavement?

Maybe it's because 3.8-4.3 HTHS is no longer sufficient to float the loaded rod bearing with the added torque.
 
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