PUP is now SN + ??? Formulation change??

[Lazydan]

Hello,

I am hoping someone on here can help me out.

I have been using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum for years in my wife and I's civics for years.

I recently purchased a 2014 Santa Fe sport with the 2.0T which is a TGDI engine, and because of this have been looking into LSPI and appropriate oils for a turbo DI engine.

Historically PUP and even PP have not had dexos1 gen2 approval, I have been unable to find an answer as to why, but beleve it might have something to do with calcium contents being too high.... it never really mattered to me as I've never had GDI before.

However, last year sometime I noticed regular PP has a green sticker that indicates it has been reformulantes for TGDI and meets dexos1 gen2, and SN PLUS.

However, the ULTRA platinum never got the certs/approvals.....

This brings me to my point....

Yesterday I picked up a 5L jug of PUP (ultra plat) and low and behold it now claims to exceed SN PLUS.....

HOWEVER.... still does not appear to meet dexos1 gen2 spec....... how can this be...?

It also does not have the "redesigned for TGDI" green sticker of the regular PP..... yet it's supposedly SN PLUS, which is the whole point of that spec.

So has it been reformulated?

Funny enough, if you go to the Pennzoil website under SN PLUS oils, the PUP doesn't show up.... only the PP does.....

I tried calling Pennzoil but was unable to get an an actual answer other than:

"your engine manufacturer doesn't require Dexos1 gen2 (obviously... it's not a GM) so you can use PUP safely, however, PUP is not appropriate for any vehicles requiring Dexos1 gen2"

Which doesn't answer anything.

Can anyone clarify this for me????

Thank you very much in advance.

And a photo of label:

 

[PimTac]

A rare sighting of the albino deer.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Buy a jug of the Pennzoil Platinum and allow more time for the PUP specs to iron itself out. It won't be long for a PUP SN Plus VOA or UOA to show up here.
I don't see the big deal here. For it sounds like you are already fimiliar with Hyundai's engine and realize shorter OCIs are coming to your most recent Santa Fe purchase.

 

[Bill_W]

I certainly do not call myself a knowledgeable guy on oil, but the SN plus came out in March 2018. Mobil 1 has been qualified to the SN plus standard with it's oil since 2010. The SN plus formulation was designed to reduce pre detonation on low speed turbocharged engines. Got one of those, it might make a difference.

 

[Lazydan]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Buy a jug of the Pennzoil Platinum and allow more time for the PUP specs to iron itself out. It won't be long for a PUP SN Plus VOA or UOA to show up here.
I don't see the big deal here. For it sounds like you are already fimiliar with Hyundai's engine and realize shorter OCIs are coming to your most recent Santa Fe purchase.




The point is I'd rather use PUP, as that is what I have been using for years... and I can get it at the same price as PP, but I am unsure if it is appropriate for my TGDI engine.... and unsure if it's been reformulated...

I don't understand how an oil can meet SN PLUS, but not dexos1 gen2.... as both specs were designed to mitigate the same thing (LSPI).

The difference being Dexos is a GM cert.

The thing that really annoys me is when I call Pennzoil they tell me that if manufacturer doesn't specifically require dexos1 gen2 spec, then there is no benefit to a oil that meets it vs an oil that does not, such as PUP

However, it appears the general consensus is TGDI engines should all use an oil that meets Dexos gen2, regardless of where or not it's a GM vehicle.....

 

[1JZ_E46]

Send a sample off for a VOA.

We would be eternally grateful

 

[BTLew81]

I guess the question is, if you can find this very good oil and it's SN Plus, is that good enough for a gdi/tgdi engine, or is there a major benefit to d1g2?

I'd like to use this oil in my accord, but from what I had seen it wasn't SN plus. Appears it is now....

 

[Lazydan]

Originally Posted by BTLew81
I guess the question is, if you can find this very good oil and it's SN Plus, is that good enough for a gdi/tgdi engine, or is there a major benefit to d1g2?

I'd like to use this oil in my accord, but from what I had seen it wasn't SN plus. Appears it is now....


This is exactly what I want to know...

And the fact that an oil can be SN PLUS but not D1G2 tells me that d1g2 is a tougher spec to meet, I.e. better oil for the TGDI... but it would be nice to get an official amswer on this...

 

[oil_film_movies]

Well, the SN+ approval means it must have reduced Calcium. I don't know of any other way to do it.
The fact that it doesn't have dexos1 Gen2 might just mean they don't care to get into that market with it. They already have Quaker State, Pennzoil Plat, & Rotella Gas Truck for the dexos1 Gen2 market.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it in any turbo GDI engine, due to the solid SN+ approval, which means the Ford Ecoboost test was passed:
"The Sequence IX LSPI test has been approved for inclusion in the ILSAC GF-6 and API SN Plus categories, and is expected to be an integral part of the testing required to qualify passenger car engine oils." -- https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-1808/

 

[Lazydan]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Well, the SN+ approval means it must have reduced Calcium. I don't know of any other way to do it.
The fact that it doesn't have dexos1 Gen2 might just mean they don't care to get into that market with it. They already have Quaker State, Pennzoil Plat, & Rotella Gas Truck for the dexos1 Gen2 market.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it in any turbo GDI engine, due to the solid SN+ approval, which means the Ford Ecoboost test was passed:
"The Sequence IX LSPI test has been approved for inclusion in the ILSAC GF-6 and API SN Plus categories, and is expected to be an integral part of the testing required to qualify passenger car engine oils." -- https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-1808/


Which means the oil must have been reformulated..... might explain why it no longer claims 25% cleaner on the front label....

The question is why not include the green "reformulated for TGDI" badge found on the new PP??

Also, from how Pennzoil customer service explained it, PUP did not meet d1g2 which is why it's not on the bottle. Not so much that they don't want to market it that way...

 

[PimTac]

I wish I knew where to find that graphic that wemay posted a while back that clearly showed what d1G2 covered and what SN+ covered.

I vaguely remember that SN+ added the timing chain protection that the other did not. Anyone else remember?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by PimTac
I wish I knew where to find that graphic that wemay posted a while back that clearly showed what d1G2 covered and what SN+ covered.

I vaguely remember that SN+ added the timing chain protection that the other did not. Anyone else remember?


SN+ is LSPI protection only. D1d2 is that plus timing chain protection.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by PimTac
I wish I knew where to find that graphic that wemay posted a while back that clearly showed what d1G2 covered and what SN+ covered.

I vaguely remember that SN+ added the timing chain protection that the other did not. Anyone else remember?


SN+ is LSPI protection only. D1d2 is that plus timing chain protection.




Thanks. I had that backwards. I wish that thread had been stickied. That graphic would answer these questions that keep coming up.

 

[Lazydan]

Thank you!!

So timing chain protection is the difference.... I'm assuming that's to protect timing chain from high levels of fuel contamination that get into the oil on these TGDI engines??

So the question then becomes.... why does PP protect the timing chain while the (supposedly) better "more expensive" PUP not have the timing chain protection....

Especially if PUP was just reformulated for SN PLUS.... why the [censored] would it still be inferior to PP......?

This is absolute insanity, and an incredible marketing/product fail on Shell's part...

That would be like releasing a new top tier iPhone that's slower and overall worse than the mid grade model........

 

[1JZ_E46]

I'm willing to bet that the lack of a d1g2 license has nothing to do with its ability to pass.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by PimTac
I wish I knew where to find that graphic that wemay posted a while back that clearly showed what d1G2 covered and what SN+ covered.

I vaguely remember that SN+ added the timing chain protection that the other did not. Anyone else remember?


I think you mean this Pim Tac...

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4770868/1

 

[Lazydan]

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
I'm willing to bet that the lack of a d1g2 license has nothing to do with its ability to pass.


According to Pennzoil when I called earlier today, PUP does NOT meet dexos1 gen2 spec.

I specifically asked if it was just licensing, or if the product doesn't actually meet the spec. I wasn't giving a straight answer, but told that it's not just a licensing thing.

 

[Lazydan]

Well this settles it for me.....

After 5 years of using PUP, I am now switching to the superior PP non ultra version.

Epic fail by shell to have your "top" product, which you've just reformulated still not match up to your "mid" tier product that was reformulated over a year ago... what a joke...

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Lazydan
Well this settles it for me.....

After 5 years of using PUP, I am now switching to the superior PP none ultra version.

Epic fail by shell to have your "top" product, which you've just reformulated still not match up to your "mid" tier product that was reformulated over a year ago... what a joke...

So you're back now with this screen name, spewing your silly anti-SOPUS nonsense. That didn't take long.

Lol "Lazydan".

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by Lazydan
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
I'm willing to bet that the lack of a d1g2 license has nothing to do with its ability to pass.


According to Pennzoil when I called earlier today, PUP does NOT meet dexos1 gen2 spec.

I specifically asked if it was just licensing, or if the product doesn't actually meet the spec. I wasn't giving a straight answer, but told that it's not just a licensing thing.


Interesting.