Should stock BuyBacks be legal or illegal?

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Originally Posted by alarmguy


DO you know, the top 10% hard working wage earners in this country pay 53 FIFTY THREE percent of all federal income taxes! DO the math man and over 40% pay no federal taxes at all.

Interesting post; but perhaps we might look a little deeper.
The top earners pay most of the Federal income taxes because they have, by far, most of the money.
Let's just say I know someone who some years pays more than $100K in Federal income tax.
And who lost more than $1M in the market in 2018.
And who could care less because those are GREAT problems to have.

I believe your statistic speaks volumes to the wage inequality in our Nation.
But that's just me.
 
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by alarmguy


DO you know, the top 10% hard working wage earners in this country pay 53 FIFTY THREE percent of all federal income taxes! DO the math man and over 40% pay no federal taxes at all.

Interesting post; but perhaps we might look a little deeper.
The top earners pay most of the Federal income taxes because they have, by far, most of the money.
Let's just say I know someone who some years pays more than $100K in Federal income tax.
And who lost more than $1M in the market in 2018.
And who could care less because those are GREAT problems to have.

I believe your statistic speaks volumes to the wage inequality in our Nation.
But that's just me.




Yup, being a free people, you are able to achieve anything you want (American Dream) or could coast by in life and just relax. Best system in the world, your an individual, free person, you can make as much or as little as you want too. You can invest as much as you want too, no one forces you to do anything.
The only inequality is almost 40% are not contributing.
BTW - the people who do contribute to the US tax base send free food money EVERY month to over 40 million people in the USA. Throw in free cell phone service too.

a few others ...
Medicaid;
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (Food Stamps or SNAP);
Supplemental Security Income (SSI);
Federal Public Housing Assistance (Section 8);
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP);
Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF);
National School Lunch Program's Free Lunch Program;
Bureau of Indian Affairs General Assistance;
Tribally-Administered Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TTANF);
Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations (FDPIR);
Head Start (if income eligibility criteria are met); or
State assistance programs (if applicable).

Almost 10% of people in the world go hungry, in the USA it is less then 3% (and no one is starving as food stamps are available to all).. There is no perfect world but this is pretty close to anything since humans were on this earth and it is all because we are a free people. Now that some states are forcing the minimum wage up to $15 an hour, things will get worse, companies will just cut back on workers.

So how much more would you like to give?

... and why do you think government is the answer? Do you think government is efficient ?
... and speaking of inequality, how is it now, that the average federal worker makes more then the population who pays them?

Is this your answer ? Is this credible ... Click to see current debt

(just having fun here and talking and now finished with this thread *L* )
 
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Why all the talk about income inequality on TV ?

I know someone with a legitimate net worth of $5M.... $7M if you include his wife's assets.

And he still wakes up everyday at 4:30 AM to get ready for work...
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by alarmguy


DO you know, the top 10% hard working wage earners in this country pay 53 FIFTY THREE percent of all federal income taxes! DO the math man and over 40% pay no federal taxes at all.

Interesting post; but perhaps we might look a little deeper.
The top earners pay most of the Federal income taxes because they have, by far, most of the money.
Let's just say I know someone who some years pays more than $100K in Federal income tax.
And who lost more than $1M in the market in 2018.
And who could care less because those are GREAT problems to have.

I believe your statistic speaks volumes to the wage inequality in our Nation.
But that's just me.




Yup, being a free people, you are able to achieve anything you want (American Dream) or could coast by in life and just relax. Best system in the world, your an individual, free person, you can make as much or as little as you want too. You can invest as much as you want too, no one forces you to do anything.


Not true. Many dreams do not become reality. Most people want a decent middle class life not get rich. Most jobs today don't have huge compensation. Even most small business owners aren't rich. Unless you chose a high paying profession. But then again there are only so many really high paid professions compared to typical middle class jobs.

Studies show that most people born or raised in a socioeconomic level rarely leave it. If you are born and raised poor you will probably be so as an adult. Raised in a wealthy environment you will probably be wealthy as an adult. That is life. Are there exceptions? Yes.

And most Americans can't invest as much as they want because they can barely pay their bills and are a pay check away from trouble. Investing for the most part is a rich man's game. The top few own 80% of stocks.

Why not have capitalism that works for everyone like it did after WWII up until about the 80's. The Wage/Wealth inequality gap continues to grow when we should work to shrink it.

It is not about making people equal. Just less unequal. It is not about making the wealthy poor because they will still be rich. It is about helping felliw Americans who have trouble just getting by.

The signs of the middle classes struggle is: 2 spouses almost always need to work, consumer debt is high, many people need to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.
 
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Why all the talk about income inequality on TV ?

I know someone with a legitimate net worth of $5M.... $7M if you include his wife's assets.

And he still wakes up everyday at 4:30 AM to get ready for work...

Lotsa people get up and go to work. Most of 'em will never see that kind of wealth.
Many pay out all or most of their earnings just to get by.

I get up at 4:30; sometimes 5. Gotta feed the 2 stupid cats. I love mornings.
I am simply saying that if you are willing and able to work, you should be able to make a decent living.
I would be curious how your friend got to $7M.
Was luck involved? Probably depends on your definition of luck.

Let's just say I feel very lucky. Gratitude comes to mind as well.
In my opinion, and in my life, with wealth comes responsibility.
But that's just me.
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Nice
No luck when both spouses have an education and work hard....


Some might call that luck. Lotsa people have education and work hard and struggle. Educators?
My dumb luck was being in Silicon Valley.
 
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by alarmguy


DO you know, the top 10% hard working wage earners in this country pay 53 FIFTY THREE percent of all federal income taxes! DO the math man and over 40% pay no federal taxes at all.

Interesting post; but perhaps we might look a little deeper.
The top earners pay most of the Federal income taxes because they have, by far, most of the money.
Let's just say I know someone who some years pays more than $100K in Federal income tax.
And who lost more than $1M in the market in 2018.
And who could care less because those are GREAT problems to have.

I believe your statistic speaks volumes to the wage inequality in our Nation.
But that's just me.




Yup, being a free people, you are able to achieve anything you want (American Dream) or could coast by in life and just relax. Best system in the world, your an individual, free person, you can make as much or as little as you want too. You can invest as much as you want too, no one forces you to do anything.


Not true. Many dreams do not become reality. Most people want a decent middle class life not get rich. Most jobs today don't have huge compensation. Even most small business owners aren't rich. Unless you chose a high paying profession. But then again there are only so many really high paid professions compared to typical middle class jobs.

Studies show that most people born or raised in a socioeconomic level rarely leave it. If you are born and raised poor you will probably be so as an adult. Raised in a wealthy environment you will probably be wealthy as an adult. That is life. Are there exceptions? Yes.

And most Americans can't invest as much as they want because they can barely pay their bills and are a pay check away from trouble. Investing for the most part is a rich man's game. The top few own 80% of stocks.

Why not have capitalism that works for everyone like it did after WWII up until about the 80's. The Wage/Wealth inequality gap continues to grow when we should work to shrink it.

It is not about making people equal. Just less unequal. It is not about making the wealthy poor because they will still be rich. It is about helping felliw Americans who have trouble just getting by.

The signs of the middle classes struggle is: 2 spouses almost always need to work, consumer debt is high, many people need to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.


and your point is?
Only thing I take from your post is, you would like government officials to take peoples money and corporations money and give it to people you think should have it.
Sorry, I dont agree and anyone on planet earth who believes being a free people would agree with me.
My god IT NEVER works!
People, we are talking marxism/communisim/socialism here, throughout mankinds history, it always sounds great to people but its nothing more then a snow job by the people who end up controlling the people, its ALWAYS crashes and burns.

Guess what? Life is tough, we are part of the animal kingdom, who is to take away anothers wealth because they worked harder and made better decisions then someone else?
That is what being an American stands for, the individual right to live your life as you see fit.

Being FREE which we are, we are able to do whatever we choose with life. Not being free KILLS ANY incentive to innovate and excel.

You point to pre World War II, well guess what?
Pre World War II was when just about every modern invention to mankind all around the WORLD came from the USA before our government grew from providing and securing our borders to today, food stamps, cell phones, health care, they have invaded and regulated every part of our lives and your complaining that you want more.

Also that is a bunch of CR+P that the middle class struggles, their spoiled rotten and its their poor decisions. What do you call struggling?

Paying $100 a month to watch TV? when Instead they can put up an antenna.
Paying Verizon $50 a month for internet and cell phone service for each line with a $600 phone when they can pay $25 with a $100 phone?
How about that nice shiny new car that they spend $30,000 to 40,000 on and took out a 6 year loan? How about a good reliable $8,000 car (or less)
Lets not get started on renting cars for years at a time (leases) for the same cars.

and that $4,500 trip to Disney Land put on a credit card?
Oh and lets not get started on college for the kids, the waste of taking out student loans without ANY thought of an objective.

Bottom line, the only problem all classes have is being immature by borrowing money when they cant afford what they buy. Its that and that alone. Lets cut to the chase and call it like it is.
Borrowing money from other people (banks) because your too immature to stand on your own two feet. (general terms NOT directed at you)

All the above is great, your free to do what you want with life, just please stop and think if you want more government agencies to screw things up as they are doing.
My god people 30% of all the government takes out of your paycheck is paying loans the government took out because you keep wanting more.
Live within your means, buy what you want, why go to someone else and borrow money for things you have no business buying.

BTW, in the OP, thinks government should take money away from corporations for buying back their stock and give it to their employees?
Laughable, the USA would become a banana republic overnight. Did you ever think, the employees could save a little money with their companies with a almost free giveaway in a 401K, this way, the employees benefit when times are good and suffer in bad times.
You want the extra money to go to the workers, but you dont say take money away from the workers if the company is doing bad.
Well guess what, that is what investors do, good with the bad.

BTW = dont take my words serious, having fun debating, that is all, just keep government out of my house, secure my borders, protect MY constitution and get our of the way and out of my paycheck. :eek:)
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Only thing I take from your post is, you would like government officials to take peoples money and corporations money and give it to people you think should have it.
Sorry, I dont agree and anyone on planet earth who believes being a free people would agree with me.
My god IT NEVER works!
People, we are talking marxism/communisim/socialism here, throughout mankinds history, it always sounds great to people but its nothing more then a snow job by the people who end up controlling the people, its ALWAYS crashes and burns.


I would just like to point out that is exactly what social security does. It's been working for the last few decades.

Not that I agree or disagree with you, it'd just make more sense if the points you raised were valid.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Only thing I take from your post is, you would like government officials to take peoples money and corporations money and give it to people you think should have it.
Sorry, I dont agree and anyone on planet earth who believes being a free people would agree with me.
My god IT NEVER works!
People, we are talking marxism/communisim/socialism here, throughout mankinds history, it always sounds great to people but its nothing more then a snow job by the people who end up controlling the people, its ALWAYS crashes and burns.


I would just like to point out that is exactly what social security does. It's been working for the last few decades.

Not that I agree or disagree with you, it'd just make more sense if the points you raised were valid.


Ummm ... not sure what you mean "if the points you raised were valid" what isnt valid?

Looks like you agree with me! Exactly! Social Security! You "get" it!

There is the word "Social" and that is when this all started/ Government always ends up taking more and always ends up expanding the programs once they pass them.
Government forces you to save money for retirement, invests it as they wish and then gives your own money back to you.

That was all ok back then, until government expanded the program to include self employeed people, who then had to give up 15 % of there income and heck, now we got Medicare, Medicaid and all kinds of Socialist programs thrown in there, heck, it wont be long until some year the people are once again fooled into putting all private insurance out of business and everyone into Medicare.
Wow, that worked out great in the Soviet Union and even Canada?

Bottom line, its power over the people, the people vote these people into office on the promise of free stuff but the cost is you are giving up your freedom to the top 1% by doing so.
The younger generation is really scary, they have been babied their whole lives and one day they will elect people to office that will "take care of them"
Never works out well when you cant stand on your own two feet.
If you remember back a decade or two, some republicans wanted to give back control of your social security money, invest it like you wish but people were too scared to manage there own forced government withdrawals from their paychecks, very sad.
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Only thing I take from your post is, you would like government officials to take peoples money and corporations money and give it to people you think should have it.
Sorry, I dont agree and anyone on planet earth who believes being a free people would agree with me.
My god IT NEVER works!
People, we are talking marxism/communisim/socialism here, throughout mankinds history, it always sounds great to people but its nothing more then a snow job by the people who end up controlling the people, its ALWAYS crashes and burns.


I would just like to point out that is exactly what social security does. It's been working for the last few decades.

Not that I agree or disagree with you, it'd just make more sense if the points you raised were valid.


Ummm ... not sure what you mean "if the points you raised were valid" what isnt valid?

Looks like you agree with me! Exactly! Social Security! You "get" it!

There is the word "Social" and that is when this all started/ Government always ends up taking more and always ends up expanding the programs once they pass them.
Government forces you to save money for retirement, invests it as they wish and then gives your own money back to you.


Well social security takes money from the people and companies and gives it to old people and others who quality. That program has been working for decades and it's known as the 3rd rail in politics where if people try to change it, they get voted out of office.

It's easy to criticize thing, but much harder to come up with a solution that will actually work. You have proposed nothing that would have any chance of passing.
 
Pension funds. Like the one my wife's pension invests in so she'll have pension money when she retires from her school district.

School teachers, firemen, auto workers (older) government employees all benefit from pensions.

The biggest share of stocks owned are owned in pension and other retirement type funds.

https://www.businessinsider.com/who-actually-owns-the-stock-market-2016-5

Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by wings&wheels
The CEO's and exec's are actually working...trust me on that..

Buybacks are one of the tools used to preserve and maintain shareholder value. They do directly benefit employees who are shareholders or have company shares in their retirement plans.

Buybacks can also benefit long term employee compensation. Buybacks are more common in hi-tech and other emerging businesses as they tend to grant RSU's or options to attract, reward and retain talent. This practice eventually leads toward dilution (increasing the total number outstanding shares), potentially decreasing individual share value which can be managed through buybacks. In this way the buybacks, through preserving the values of stock based comp granted to key employees also provide a direct benefit to them.


The average employee owns very little in stocks. Guess who does?
 
Where is all of my free money that the original poster thinks I should be entitled to?

If I get that money, I will quit working and sit by the dock of the bay watching the tide all day long. I can hardly wait, lets get rid of stock buybacks today so I can start collecting free money tomorrow.
 
Originally Posted by SeaJay
Where is all of my free money that the original poster thinks I should be entitled to?

If I get that money, I will quit working and sit by the dock of the bay watching the tide all day long. I can hardly wait, lets get rid of stock buybacks today so I can start collecting free money tomorrow.

Interesting...
I could do just that from my market gains alone.
Are those gains free money? Dunno... I did not work for them, and I will be taxed at a far less rate as compared to my payroll taxes.
I did not pay off my house with my job income, I can tell you that.

Just askin....
 
Originally Posted by ZZman
I would rather see them illegal and have the companies put the money into the business or the employees.


Of course not. Buybacks are signals to the market that the company has no business case for investing the money elsewhere. Aside from being morally questionable forcing them to invest in the company would cause them to generate excess, idle, capacity.

Now using borrowed funds to finance buybacks should raise alarm bells for investors.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by ZZman
I would rather see them illegal and have the companies put the money into the business or the employees.


Of course not. Buybacks are signals to the market that the company has no business case for investing the money elsewhere. Aside from being morally questionable forcing them to invest in the company would cause them to generate excess, idle, capacity.

Now using borrowed funds to finance buybacks should raise alarm bells for investors.


In theory what it means is that the company believes it is doing a better job increasing shareholder value by reducing outstanding shares than to grow their business. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sears was pretty bad at it, spent billions buying back shares only to see the company go into bankruptcy anyway. They should have either just held onto the money or actually did something and invest that money in their business instead of watching it all go down the drain.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by ZZman
I would rather see them illegal and have the companies put the money into the business or the employees.


Of course not. Buybacks are signals to the market that the company has no business case for investing the money elsewhere. Aside from being morally questionable forcing them to invest in the company would cause them to generate excess, idle, capacity.

Now using borrowed funds to finance buybacks should raise alarm bells for investors.


In theory what it means is that the company believes it is doing a better job increasing shareholder value by reducing outstanding shares than to grow their business. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sears was pretty bad at it, spent billions buying back shares only to see the company go into bankruptcy anyway. They should have either just held onto the money or actually did something and invest that money in their business instead of watching it all go down the drain.



The retail pie can be sliced up only by so much. Amazon will become the next Sears.
 
Amazon needs to be broken up into separate companies..its to big, controls the news coming out of washington by its CEO owning the Washington Post, controls retail sales, controls data and information services in the home.

1. Retail Division
2. Internet Division
3. News Division


Same with google and all the others.

AS far as how they invest their profits, that is up to them not the workers, if the workers dont like it, they can quit or form a union. Too Bad.
Its still a free country and all some people can do is whine and cry on how unfair the FREE world is.. just plain stupid.
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Amazon needs to be broken up into separate companies..its to big, controls the news coming out of washington by its CEO owning the Washington Post, controls retail sales, controls data and information services in the home.

1. Retail Division
2. Internet Division
3. News Division


Same with google and all the others.

AS far as how they invest their profits, that is up to them not the workers, if the workers dont like it, they can quit or form a union. Too Bad.
Its still a free country and all some people can do is whine and cry on how unfair the FREE world is.. just plain stupid.



Interesting...
You start by saying Amazon is too big and needs to be split up.
Then you say the if workers don't like it they can unionize or quit.

Is the free world free do improve and grow or not?
Isn't that kinda playing it both ways?
Just askin'...
 
Last I looked, Amazon doesn't "controls retail sales" as posted. Big yes, but does not control. Walmart and a few others are doing quite well these days. Owning one newspaper isn't equal to controlling politics, or even controlling the news.
 
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