Grease for leaking factory ball joint?

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Yesterday during an oil change I noticed that one of my ball joints was seeping a little grease. The boot was slightly torn. Other than that the ball joint appears fine and I don't notice anything abnormal while driving.

I am going to inject some fresh grease inside and wrap the boot with some self fusing tape. I know eventually the BJ will need replacement, but not currently, and I'd like to extend it's service life.

What's the best brand of ball joint grease? I see a lot of Lucas at Walmart, but I'm wary of Lucas because the consensus about their oil additives is that they're snake oil. There's Supertech grease, but it warns users to never mix different types of grease. And there's two kinds of ST grease, one is a moly grease. What should I use? Is it bad to mix greases??
 
What type of car? When I changed the control arms on my civic I installed new Honda boots on the ball joints. I used a needle fitting to put a few pumps of random black chassis grease up into the boot before putting it into the arm.
 
It's a Lexus IS350. I doubt the model matters but there it is. It's too bad the factory boots are sealed and don't have zerk fittings.
 
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Originally Posted by Deontologist
It's a Lexus IS350. I doubt the model matters but there it is. It's too bad the factory boots are sealed and don't have zerk fittings.

I completely disagree with that, I find (good) non-greasable joints such as the 555 brand or OEM last a much longer time than the greasable ones from places like Moog.
 
The problem is not getting grease in there its keeping the contaminants out, tape will not last. You could replace the boot if they make one for it, if it is a lube for life joint just replace it.
 
Originally Posted by Deontologist
It's a Lexus IS350. I doubt the model matters but there it is. It's too bad the factory boots are sealed and don't have zerk fittings.


Honda ball joints are sealed also but the boots are replaceable. Much cheaper and easier than replacing the whole joint when only the boots is bad. I had to search out the part number but was able to buy them on Amazon.
 
Run the ball joints until play develops, then replace them. Toyota ball joints last an extremely long time and you may be surprised by how long they last, even with damaged boots.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice, but a question still remains: what type of base does Toyota/Lexus use in their ball joint grease? I'm going to clean off the boot and squirt a little extra grease inside for added peace of mind as I have neither time or money to replace a working ball joint right now. A few months down the line, yes, but I'd like to spend 20 dollars now to give myself some added peace of mind since the BJ has no issues other than a weeping boot. Now, if the BJ starts developing play, then I'd replace it immediately regardless of time or cost because my life and other people's lives are worth more than anything.
 
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Originally Posted by Deontologist
Thanks everyone for the advice, but a question still remains: what type of base does Toyota/Lexus use in their ball joint grease?

Unless someone has sent some in for analysis, probably no one here will know. Since it's not intended to be greaseable, I don't think they sell anything that we can look at, and examine the specs.

I would just put something suitable in there, and keep an eye on it.
 
Originally Posted by HangFire
Unless someone has sent some in for analysis, probably no one here will know. Since it's not intended to be greaseable, I don't think they sell anything that we can look at, and examine the specs.

I would just put something suitable in there, and keep an eye on it.

Plus Toyota uses more than one supplier for OEM parts (I've seen it in person), so it may not even be consistent over time.

None of the OEM suppliers nor the OEM themselves publish that sort of information, much like efficiency data for oil filters.
 
+1. I read somewhere some OE used Krytox or similar, if so that alone is half the price of the joint. I cant say if that is correct or not but it sort of makes sense as I see some 20-30 years old and still not worn out.
 
At this point, anything you do will be for experimentation purposes anyway. You may as well do what makes you sleep well at night.

I would plan on spending the $80/joint (depending on VIN) from Toyota at some point in the near future.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Deontologist
It's a Lexus IS350. I doubt the model matters but there it is. It's too bad the factory boots are sealed and don't have zerk fittings.

I completely disagree with that, I find (good) non-greasable joints such as the 555 brand or OEM last a much longer time than the greasable ones from places like Moog.

Then your experience is at odds with everyone else. Good greaseable ball joints tend to never fail, unless they went longer than 50K mi between grease intervals or the boot tore up.

On that note, odds are the boot on either type will be the first point of failure unless you drive in an area with a lot of deep potholes but in that case, the the non-greasable joints don't last nearly as long because their plastic bushings deform from the pothole (and speed bumps, etc) impacts. There is a wild card here in that Moog has changed many of its BJ parts over to a recessed integral boot design in recent years, recent enough that we don't yet have reliable lifespan data for the lifespan of that boot design, and yet they seem to be outlasting their prior conventional boot design which had frequent complaints of cracking.
 
There are two far most likely types of grease used on sealed BJs, silicone and lithium complex. Since it is leaking, get a smear of it and test whether it dissolves in gasoline. If it does, use lithium grease, thick NLGI #2, which may be drifting towards #3 if moly fortified which is a good thing. If gasoline does not dissolve it, silicone grease.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
+1. I read somewhere some OE used Krytox or similar, if so that alone is half the price of the joint. I cant say if that is correct or not but it sort of makes sense as I see some 20-30 years old and still not worn out.

How much grease do you figure the factory fill is? I doubt over 1/4 oz, or even at 1/2 oz at manufacturing quantity bulk purchase prices, would make it only a single-digit dollars cost for Krytox.
 
Originally Posted by Dave9
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Deontologist
It's a Lexus IS350. I doubt the model matters but there it is. It's too bad the factory boots are sealed and don't have zerk fittings.

I completely disagree with that, I find (good) non-greasable joints such as the 555 brand or OEM last a much longer time than the greasable ones from places like Moog.

Then your experience is at odds with everyone else. Good greaseable ball joints tend to never fail, unless they went longer than 50K mi between grease intervals or the boot tore up.

On that note, odds are the boot on either type will be the first point of failure unless you drive in an area with a lot of deep potholes but in that case, the the non-greasable joints don't last nearly as long because their plastic bushings deform from the pothole (and speed bumps, etc) impacts. There is a wild card here in that Moog has changed many of its BJ parts over to a recessed integral boot design in recent years, recent enough that we don't yet have reliable lifespan data for the lifespan of that boot design, and yet they seem to be outlasting their prior conventional boot design which had frequent complaints of cracking.



That is a total false. Explain why in the 70's, 80's when LFL was seldom and most vehicles were lubed joints and LOF was every 3K did we replace lots and lots of joints?
Keep in mind these were US made OE, Moog (when Moog was still Moog), Spicer, etc and I have been doing this work every day since 1971.
Over the years I routinely come across 20 and even 30 year old LFL joints, I have a 96 Subaru here right now with every original joint still in the car and in good shape and this is the NE salt belt with holes big enough to swallow a pet poodle.
 
Originally Posted by Dave9
Originally Posted by Trav
+1. I read somewhere some OE used Krytox or similar, if so that alone is half the price of the joint. I cant say if that is correct or not but it sort of makes sense as I see some 20-30 years old and still not worn out.

How much grease do you figure the factory fill is? I doubt over 1/4 oz, or even at 1/2 oz at manufacturing quantity bulk purchase prices, would make it only a single-digit dollars cost for Krytox.


Not much, I would guess as you say 1/4 - 1/2 oz. It is enough to fill around the ball but not enough to swell the boot.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
....
That is a total false. Explain why in the 70's, 80's when LFL was seldom and most vehicles were lubed joints and LOF was every 3K did we replace lots and lots of joints?
Keep in mind these were US made OE, Moog (when Moog was still Moog), Spicer, etc and I have been doing this work every day since 1971.
Over the years I routinely come across 20 and even 30 year old LFL joints, I have a 96 Subaru here right now with every original joint still in the car and in good shape and this is the NE salt belt with holes big enough to swallow a pet poodle.



Agreed. For almost all applications, lubed for life joints are superior provided that the boot stays intact to keep contaminants out. It is a low friction design with a polished ball that rides on a teflon liner. The teflon liner will still wear over time, but it lasts much much longer than the traditional greasable joint which is a sintered metal ball on metal socket design. Think about it...a greasable joint is literally metal on metal contact and you are relying on the metal being porous enough such that when the joint heats up, the oil drops out of the grease, passes through the pores of the metal, and provides thin film lubrication. Whereas on your teflon joint, the teflon itself is naturally a self lubricating component.

Where the traditional greaseable joint is superior however, is in heavy duty applications where there is a likely chance of contaminants getting into the joint. Then in that case, it's beneficial to have a greasable design such that contaminants can be flushed out. Contaminants will chew through teflon much more readily than the metal on metal design.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice. I looked more into replacing the ball joint and it seems that the parts for the job are very cheap and no special tools are required. It is pretty much a bolt off and bolt on job. Should I go ahead and replace the thing or wait for symptoms? I don't want to necessarily fix what ain't broken. Plus, the hot weather makes me want to wait a few months for winter before crawling underneath the car. Is it possible for the ball joint to catastrophically fail without warning? I have 0 symptoms of a bad ball joint currently.
 
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