Keep K&N or NOT ?

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Strictly to make sure I see it from both sides of the table, K&N is not a completely bad company making completely bad products. For Marine and and aviation, their technology completely blows away everything else their competition makes in terms of filtering efficiency. Their use of cotton-gauze media as a competent and even Superior flame arrestor is the forefront of technical development and performance. As time goes on, the "metal slat" flame arrestor becomes harder and harder to find, and something that either is or looks like a K&N turns up more and more. One way or another, K&N is the commercial and technological leader in this field.

Their "any size, any shape" selection for true racing air filters is also industry leading.

Their oil filters that have nuts on the dome and holes for safety wire is incredibly on-point for the racing market, and also industry leading. Efficiency takes a back seat to flow in the racing industry, so that's a factor not even worth discussing. All oil filter manufacturers who do a racing series make Rock catcher oil filters. K&N might even be beating others in flow/efficiency compromise.

Their cotton-gauze filter combined with their foam filter-saver is identical to what comes OEM with many off road machines. Thumbs up here when used together.

My gripe with K&N is a lack of clear representation for many applications. Just be honest about the compromise in filtration, and direct people to the appropriate products.

Example? My Rams trucks. K&N has two air filters available for my truck. Their K&N filter, and the DryFlow made by their AEM branch. Both filters are slick and smart. They both directly replace the flat panel filter with a GIANT cone filter that extends out into the factory air box. Both have massive flow. K&N obviously did some serious homework on both filters. I have the AEM versions, and they are GREAT. Si numbers low as ever, squeaky clean intake tract, and I've gone more than 40k miles on one with no cleaning, and my filter minder (routinely tested) shows no restriction. Brand new Mopar filter indicated 50% restriction. Worth noting that I routinely drive on unpaved roads behind trucks that kick up such a dust cloud that I have only 10 feet visibility. This filter does not have it easy at all.

Now they could just come out and tell me that the K&N flows better with a sacrifice in efficiency, and that they AEM flows a little less but has exemplary efficiency, but they don't. They could say so, and they'd get my money either way, but choose to just hand me the marketing spiel for the K&N and leave me to do whatever. There's nothing groundbreaking or risky about this. Go on S&B website and you'll find the difference between their oiled and dry on full display. More flow on oiled, better efficiency on dry. They don't care which you buy. Same dollars. Same pocket.



K&N is just whacking the "cotton gauze>all" ideology too much. They are a giant in the industry. They purchased a dry resusable filter company. Just change the friggin narrative already. Arlen Spicer's visit to K&N proved that they know that their filter is a compromise to efficiency for flow. Just come out with it and let people make an educated decision.

The marketing to the commercial truck and equipment sector just needs to stop entirely. Cotton-gauze can't even urinate on the same sidewalk as the filter assemblies used in commercial trucks and equipment.
 
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I'm pretty sure Hastings has the market for industrial applications. Go on their website and check it out. They seem quite proud of their over the road trucks and heavy machinery applications.

I've always liked S&B. They I believe pioneered the closed airbox design for aftermarket intakes. Several manufacturers now offer an enclosed intake. AFE, S&B, Volant, several others, except, K&N. They apparently favor giant cone filters the size of a house to suck in hot, underhood air with a ridiculous heat shield that does nothing.
 
I have absolutely no problem with K&N in the right applications, but there just aren't a lot of them, as you mention. The notion of reduced maintenance and environmental friendliness was great; it just never panned out quite the way we wished.
 
Originally Posted by JoelB
Interesting take on my comment, as i clearly implied they wouldn't be in business if they were ruining motors left and right. I made no comment about them being good/great or anything else.

What are some specific lies they've told? Things that have been proven without a shadow of a doubt to be false? You have to understand that marketing is a slippery thing. Companies like K&N use non-specific and ambiguous claims so they cannot be proven false. This is common in most/all advertising. Do we really know Castrol Magnatec has intelligent molecules? Maybe they're big liars! Worst company ever!


"It's called 'puffery'"- Judge Judy.

Excellent post.

When I was a kid I believed all the car ads that said Car A or B would change my life, give me status, maximum MPG and super thrust acceleration.

It's marketing and I've learned to consider all of it BS.

I like the idea of a reusable filter. That's it.
 
I don't like K&Ns because it's impossible to re-oil them after cleaning. The only way to get oil into all of the pleats is to soak it with so much oil that oil oozes out of them for days afterwards...not to mention this much oil is going to end up going into the engine...
 
Originally Posted by grampi
I don't like K&Ns because it's impossible to re-oil them after cleaning. The only way to get oil into all of the pleats is to soak it with so much oil that oil oozes out of them for days afterwards...not to mention this much oil is going to end up going into the engine...

Nope.

A light bead of oil on the top of each pleat, once the filter is bone dry. The oil will wick into the fibers.

That said, I removed the K&N filter that came with my intake and installed an aFe Pro Dry S. The intake tube was dry and clean, as was the MAF. I wanted a filter not as susceptible to water with higher efficiency.
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by grampi
I don't like K&Ns because it's impossible to re-oil them after cleaning. The only way to get oil into all of the pleats is to soak it with so much oil that oil oozes out of them for days afterwards...not to mention this much oil is going to end up going into the engine...

Nope.

A light bead of oil on the top of each pleat, once the filter is bone dry. The oil will wick into the fibers.

That said, I removed the K&N filter that came with my intake and installed an aFe Pro Dry S. The intake tube was dry and clean, as was the MAF. I wanted a filter not as susceptible to water with higher efficiency.


I tried that, even let it sit over night, but the inside pleats still had no oil in them...
 
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by grampi
I don't like K&Ns because it's impossible to re-oil them after cleaning. The only way to get oil into all of the pleats is to soak it with so much oil that oil oozes out of them for days afterwards...not to mention this much oil is going to end up going into the engine...

Nope.

A light bead of oil on the top of each pleat, once the filter is bone dry. The oil will wick into the fibers.

That said, I removed the K&N filter that came with my intake and installed an aFe Pro Dry S. The intake tube was dry and clean, as was the MAF. I wanted a filter not as susceptible to water with higher efficiency.


I tried that, even let it sit over night, but the inside pleats still had no oil in them...

Did you use the amount specified for your filter? If so, the oil would have wicked in short order once installed.
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by grampi
I don't like K&Ns because it's impossible to re-oil them after cleaning. The only way to get oil into all of the pleats is to soak it with so much oil that oil oozes out of them for days afterwards...not to mention this much oil is going to end up going into the engine...

Nope.

A light bead of oil on the top of each pleat, once the filter is bone dry. The oil will wick into the fibers.

That said, I removed the K&N filter that came with my intake and installed an aFe Pro Dry S. The intake tube was dry and clean, as was the MAF. I wanted a filter not as susceptible to water with higher efficiency.


I tried that, even let it sit over night, but the inside pleats still had no oil in them...

Did you use the amount specified for your filter? If so, the oil would have wicked in short order once installed.


I don't really care anymore as I no longer use K&Ns...
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by grampi
I don't like K&Ns because it's impossible to re-oil them after cleaning. The only way to get oil into all of the pleats is to soak it with so much oil that oil oozes out of them for days afterwards...not to mention this much oil is going to end up going into the engine...

Nope.

A light bead of oil on the top of each pleat, once the filter is bone dry. The oil will wick into the fibers.

That said, I removed the K&N filter that came with my intake and installed an aFe Pro Dry S. The intake tube was dry and clean, as was the MAF. I wanted a filter not as susceptible to water with higher efficiency.


Of course it was, b/c the oil coming off the filter is complete urban legend.
 
A number of years ago (10?) Jim Allen (is he still on here?) either did or sited a very lengthy study on this exact topic and concluded the K&N was a good choice and concerns of dirtying/oiling up MAF's was not an issue. Don't remember much past that.
 
Originally Posted by Bill_W
I have heard that the best oil filter is a really good air filter. As far as efficiency K & N takes a big hit.

https://ac.els-cdn.com/S22120173163...2347577_9d4bc06e75f99130932b7ec5d30cdc5a

If you have a fuel injected engine dump the K & N. The carb engine is more sensitive to air flow.

I recall seeing a test done by Motor Trend where they took a mid-90s Integra and swapped the stock air box (which in itself isn't very restrictive) for a universal K&N cone setup. They actually managed to get higher power/torque at WOT. Then they got worse power/torque over the majority of the rev range where most drivers would actually drive it.

I think the dual-stage intake in several Honda DOHC VTEC cars might have been the right idea. They didn't make a less restrictive filter, but restricted the intake runners and then opened them up at high revs.
 
I bought a K&N air filter for my FXT because they sounded cool, but then I read this report...

https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

. I also talked to a buddy with an M5 who told me he used K&Ns (two in that massive beast) and started having issues either not long after he installed them or after he first cleaned and re-oiled them (can't remember now). He ended up cleaning the MAF sensors and replacing both filters, after which the car ran much better.

I took that thing back.

It was really surprising to me that the K&N in that report actually filled up faster (to the max allowable restriction) in a dirty environment than the OEM filter even though the latter was catching much more dirt!
 
Is there anything else? I am interested... BITOG used to have a air filter test that was taken down.
 
I have a thought....It seems AEM,Apexi and Injen are going dryflow and it has a following without the oil issues. I just washed my dryflow after 150,000 miles for the very first time and can say that they filter extremely well. Granted I had two layers of pantyhose and the prefilter wrapped on top but aside its a more reliable system. My one thought would be is how cold before the oil freezes on the filter K&N? Oh its PAO huh? Yeah right! Not having to oil is so much more simple and apparently its better because this is the new trend by many now. If I had to use a oil filter it would be Greenfilters. Less stuff to buy,less stuff to pollute and less stuff to have to find a place to store. I found this to prove just how impressive non oil filters are-
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/0512st-aem-dryflow-filter/

http://mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/index.html
 
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