Wanting a 93-02 Camaro

[cwilliamsws6]

I REALLY want a 93-02 (4th gen) Camaro because where I live there's always dozens for less than $5k for sale. I want one so I have myself a cheap and fun weekend cruiser and also something as a backup car when my other one is broken down in the garage like it is now since the alternator decided it was done with life.

I know a fair bit on the F-body platform because I have helped my friend work on his formula Firebird, my neighbor has a Trans-Am that I've helped work on, plus we used to have a WS6 Trans-Am (hence my username).

Aside from leaking T-tops and window regulators can anyone think of what else I should look at on these cars before I buy one?

Thanks!!

 

[dogememe]

Have you considered a Ford Crown Victoria instead?

 

[umungus1122]

Originally Posted by dogememe
Have you considered a Ford Crown Victoria instead?

I think he's interested in something a little more performance oriented.

OP, I'd ask on a 4th gen specific forum, you'll get the best answers there. I prefer the 3rd/ 2nd gen myself.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

The LT1 has problems with the Opti-Spark

To me, the 4th gen F-bodies are scary because they tucked the engine underneath the windshield, so they are impossible to work on. But if you've done it before, then you should be OK. For obvious reasons, you will want to use iridium spark plugs when it's time to replace them.

IMO, the best value is the 3800 V6 from 96 and up. 200 hp isn't bad at all, enough for fun and decent performance, most likely better gas mileage, easier to work on, and lower operating costs. And the 5-speed transmission doesn't have skip-shift that people love to hate that the 6-speed has (including every manual V8 4th gen). The automatics don't have a transmission drain plug, but an aftermarket pan is easy to obtain.

The Firebird/TA Monsoon system gives you an extra cupholder on the passenger side door (not available on the Camaro). Most Firebirds 98+ have the Monsoon setup, and possibly some 96-97, or whenever it became available.

The 98+ Firebird uses weird size sealed beams, and the 93-97 Camaros use an even worse headlight system and have a really ugly front end. The 98+ Camaro has the best look. The best front end of any 4th gen, and the best tail lights too, because they have amber turn signals. Early firebirds use a standard-size sealed beam, so if that's what you end up with, Hella E-Codes are easy to swap in.

All 99+ models have the OLM. All 98+ have two cigarette lighters and 4 cupholders (in addition to the one most Firebirds have that I described earlier)

So, my choice would be a 96-97 Firebird, or a 98-02 Camaro V6.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

You must be one of the few who want one. They have gone almost extinct in CA. Mustangs of that era are all over. Camaros are gone and forgotten. They were everywhere in their day. Strange phenomenon.
Best of luck. When I see a pointy nose Camaro in nice shape I always pause and give it a look.

 

[clinebarger]

The window regulator itself is near bulletproof.....It's the window motor that gives issues! Hardtop versions are out there if you don't want T-tops.

Any relevant advice is going to depend on what exact year/engine you want......$5,000 probably won't touch a nice LS1 4th gen F-Body!

 

[skyactiv]

Look out for your wallet.

You state being 17 years old in your signature.
Unfortunately, it's young guys like you that often wreck em and is why there are less and less of those on the road.
Wanting a backup car is dumb and doesn't make financial sense.
I had a third gen F body when I was young and blew a lot of money on it I never got back.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by dogememe
Have you considered a Ford Crown Victoria instead?


Where did this come from? Just because your in love with Crown Vic's.....Doesn't mean everyone is!

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by skyactiv
Look out for your wallet.

You state being 17 years old in your signature.
Unfortunately, it's young guys like you that often wreck em and is why there are less and less of those on the road.
Wanting a backup car is dumb and doesn't make financial sense.
I had a third gen F body when I was young and blew a lot of money on it I never got back.


Good thing to point out. OP should check insurance rates.

The 93-94s just passed their 25th birthdays, maybe you can get limited use (year) antique registration and insurance.

 

[69GTX]

I've owned 3 LT1's and 2 LS1 4th gens....all V8's. If you want a V6, then you should by the Crown Victoria instead....I've owned 6 Crown Vics.... So I have some experience here. And I've followed the LS1Tech forum for the past 6 yrs learning even more about these cars. That's the best blog on LS1 4th gens. If you find a candidate, you can bring it for comments.

I agree the Optispark is an issue on the LT1's. They also have 50-75 less hp and aren't as easy to build up as the LS1's. LS1's are still all over the roads today in east and south, even if they aren't in California. Many mint examples to choose from that won't break the bank. My advice is to get a 1-2 owner, low mileage (15K-55K) vehicle that needs little where maintenance was documented all along.

The skip shift feature on the LS1 M6 six speed transmission is a non-issue. You just pull the sensor plug off the trans casing. If the yellow light bothers you, have it programmed out with a tuner...simple. I've gone years between connecting and disconnecting mine. Right now it's connected. If I want to bypass the M6 skip shift, just accelerate briskly from 1st gear. If you baby it....you'll get the 1-4 skip.

The best bang for the buck in my mind is the LS1 1998-2002 Camaro Z28's. They are lighter than the Camaro SS, Firebirds and Trans Ams. And they have the same 350 hp overall rating. The Z28's bring about $1000 less than the SS, and about $2500 less than the WS6's.

Weak points on Firebird LS1 are the cracking door panels, nearly all get it. But there are ways to prevent it if you start early. Powered head lamp doors have weak gearing and eventually fail. Same for power antennae. If I could do it again I'd get strippo Z28 with screw on antennae, manual crank windows, and manual seats. Just less stuff to break.

A major weak point on these cars are the roof panel from April 1998-August 2002....they all will have bubbling paint if left out in the hot sun. Your roof panel will blister and look ugly. Painting doesn't resolve it. You have to cut out the old panel and put in a new one....runs about $1500. Not cheap. How to avoid? Buy a 1998 built before April 1999. Those don't have the improper glue prep on the panels...and they do not blister. And a 1998 Z28, SS or even Firebird is the cheapest year of the 1998-2002 run and give you 95-98% of the performance. I prefer the Z28 as it came with 16" tires and a much more comfortable ride than the harsher 17" low profiles on the SS and WS6. It's like night and day in smoothness. If you don't mind the rougher jolting ride, get the SS or WS6.

M6's will cost approx $1K to $1500 more than an automatic. The M6's tend to be a bit noisy and notchy. Watch out for piston slap when cold ....it goes away....but it's annoying. I'd avoid any F body with cold piston slap. You can find nice cars in the $7K-$10K range. I'd avoid the higher mileage ones and those needing work. There's just too many 1-2 owner cars out there in nice shape. And KBB and NADA vastly under-rate the low mileage premium. So you can find cars with 20K miles and a book value of $7K to $8K....pure hog wash. Just find the sellers who go by book. WS6's are feverishly sought after, especially scarce colors like SOM (orange metallic). If you can luck into one of those cheaply, I'd go for it. SOM in a Z28/SS is nice too....same for Hugger Orange. The color pewter doesn't get as much respect as the other colors. Red and Black are most common. But everyone loves a black Firebird and WS6. Those are easy to sell when maintained and looking good. Camaro's are a little tougher sell as they aren't as flashy as the "boy racer " look of the Trans Am and WS6's. These are 20 yrs old now....expect speakers and door motors to need replacing if they haven't already. Engines on these cars are good for 175K-200K miles. Automatic transmissions are solid too. Abused 6 speeds with weak synchros are common. The manual T56 is not a superb transmission. But in the right hands it can last 150K miles without transmission work. If you buy an original 1998-2000 M6....those came from the factory with paper lined synchronizers....much more problematic than the carbon ones from 2001-2002. But using the correct fluids on the paper lined friction rings prevents unwarranted wear and blinding.

I bought my 1999 Camaro SS 6 yrs ago with 12K miles. One owner. I found it on Ebay for $12,000. The owner was close by too. It was pretty mint. I now have 19,600 miles. Not the best cars for winter or rainy driving unless you have some all season tires. I use summer tires all year round....and my SS is mostly garaged from December to March. It can go out for emergencies in winter if the roads are clear but I prefer to minimize that. When I had my 1998 Z28 A4, that saw winter driving on 16" all season tires....and did ok.

With the 5 cars I've owned, I never had anything but routine maintenance repairs...brakes for example. I drove my 1999 from 22K to 115K miles without any major issues other than a tiny pinion seal drip on the rear end (common). Sold it at that time. If you buy a project type car at $2K (roller) to $5K....who knows what you can run into. Sweet spot for nice used cars is $6K to $12K....and I've seen great deals at the $7K to $9K level.

 

[tony1679]

Owned a '97 Z28 here...

This is simple:

*LS1>LT1 (98 and up>97 and down).
*Optispark will be your demise if you choose LT1, but all in all the LT1 was still solid.
*V8>V6 (yes, even for gas mileage, but they are harder to work on clearance-wise). My LT1 got 30-31mpg highway with the T-56.
*The interior panels, especially the dash, WILL crack. Count on it.
*Most importantly - T-56 or GTFO (as said above, skip shift is NOT a big deal). My favorite transmission of all time!
*As stated above, prepare your wallet (you'll also want 91+ octane for the V8s!).
*Drive cool, don't be a tool.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
I've owned 3 LT1's and 2 LS1 4th gens....all V8's. If you want a V6, then you should by the Crown Victoria instead
-snip-
A major weak point on these cars are the roof panel from April 1998-August 2002....they all will have bubbling paint if left out in the hot sun. Your roof panel will blister and look ugly. Painting doesn't resolve it. You have to cut out the old panel and put in a new one....runs about $1500. Not cheap. How to avoid? Buy a 1998 built before April 1999. Those don't have the improper glue prep on the panels...and they do not blister.


The real way to avoid the blistering roof panel is to get T-tops

T-Tops are awesome, and they are THE #1 reason people buy these cars! It's the defining feature of the Camaro/Firebird. When you think of these cars, you think T-tops! GM made a big mistake not offering them on the new Camaro

 

[clinebarger]

The Sail Panel is still an issue with T-top cars....My 2001 has some blisters but mild compared to most I've seen.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
The Sail Panel is still an issue with T-top cars....My 2001 has some blisters but mild compared to most I've seen.


oops yeah I misread that part, sorry

It's really the panel behind the T-tops, sorry for the confusion!

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by skyactiv
Look out for your wallet.

I had a third gen F body when I was young and blew a lot of money on it I never got back.


The rest of the money, I wasted.

 

[Kira]

My neighbors asked me to sell their 2001 Camaro T-top. It had the 3800 seriesII, 4L60E (is that right?) transmission.
All the interior vinyl was cracked in that car. Even the padding on the ceiling. The interior cloth was a purple brocaded fabric which in no way looked automotive.
It looked OK from the outside. GM hit the nail on the head with its pewter paint jobs.
+1 on the engine being under the windshield. It had the code which pointed to the PCV valve but I couldn't even find it.
Lucky for them there were 2 guys who bought smashed Camaros and swapped parts with working ones. They even had a stubby container outside filled with parts.
Selling the car in November/December netted few phone calls. Had to take $1,700.

 

[Jarlaxle]

MSD has a permanent drop-in replacement for the Optispark. It's half the cost of a stock replacement, impervious to coolant, and would probably work underwater.

If it shifts funny...check the clutch hydraulics. If it grinds going into 3rd, it might be a bad shift fork-common problem on a T-56 that sees hard use.

The parking brake handle might rattle. If so, the only real fix for that mind-bending noise is replacing the bloody thing.

 

[69GTX]

On my 4th Gens never had ANY plastic body panel crack. That's just a matter of taking care of them. My 1998 Z28 was driven nearly daily for 8 yrs and 95,000 miles by me (3 yrs and 22K miles by previous owner) and spent many days out in the hot sun at work. I always used a sun shield on the windshield and/or dash pads. I've done this for all my cars the past 40 yrs. And I've never had a cracked dash yet. One just has to take preventive steps.

Since most of these LS1 4th gens came with TTops, the sail panels are what appear to ripple/blister up from sun exposure. However, a hardtop is not immune. In fact, that's even more total surface area that will blister up, and look even worse than a TTop. The short cut of not using a sealer in doing the roof/sail panels on these cars had the same effect. Either find a car that has had it properly repaired or a '98 that never had the issue. A lot of people will repaint the sail panels prior to selling to hide the damage. And it will come right back within a year or so. TTops seem to be desired by most buyers. When I bought my car I had TTops off a number of times the first few years. But like anything, you get tired of it. In the past 2 years of summer driving, I only had them off once. And since my 1998 Z28 was a hardtop, I got quite used to less rattles and squeaks. The hardtops are structurally more solid and lighter than the TTop cars. The go-faster crowd likes them for that reason.

T56's tend to rattle into the cabin, especially when the sloppy, sound-deadened factory shifter arm is replaced with a solid mounted aftermarket one. If you find a quiet T56, that's a plus. Many are affected by neutral gear rollover noise. You'll hear that light rattle when idling in neutral with the clutch engaged (clutch pedal up). It should go away after running up rpms to 2000-2500. The source is the engine and the fact that the transmission gears usually have a little bit of slop in them when unloaded or lightly loaded. If I were buying another manual transmission LS1 I'd be looking for a quiet T56. I've driven several so I know they are out there.

 

[aquariuscsm]

My favorite configuration of these cars were the ones that had the 4 separate headlights vs the two solid headlight assemblies (up to 1994 maybe?). And they looked a little more sleek and less rounded.

 

[LDM]

I have both an 89 IROCZ 350 and a 94 Z28 LT1 6 speed. Both are fun cars but they definitely cost you money insurance wise if you are young. I've had my 94 since I was 18, which was 20 years ago. I used to pay more in insurance than the car payment back then.

Anyway, as much as I love my 94 the LS1 engine definitely has more power and is easier to mod, so if that is what you are looking for the 98-02 would be a better choice. The biggest issue in my opinion with these cars is the 10 bolt rear end, which should never have been put in these cars with the small ring gear that it has. I ended up putting a Strange S60 under my 94 as I've upgraded her over the years because I was afraid of breaking the stock 10 bolt. Not cheap but my 94 isn't the stock 275 HP and 325 ft/lbs of TQ either.

As for the optispark, its not the issue most people make it out to be. The biggest thing is don't get it wet or it will fail. GM had the infinite wisdom to put the thing under the water pump, which the stock water pump will start to leak out the weep hole and right on the optispark. I switched out to an electric water pump on mine many years ago and my current optispark is an original GM that is over 15 years old. No issues at all but make sure if you do need to replace one that you don't buy a cheap reman, which you will have problems with. Or if you buy the 98-02 years then it won't have the optispark and you won't have to worry.