So this is a new development? The racing series I'm involved in, this has been SOP for as long as I've been involved.
NASCAR to disqualify race wins if car fails post race inspection.
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Originally Posted by 02SE
So this is a new development? The racing series I'm involved in, this has been SOP for as long as I've been involved.
Before they would penalize money or points earned as well has having it be an "encumbered finish" for any playoff qualifications. Now they are taking the actual win away which is how it should have been from the beginning. The theory before was that they thought it wasn't fair for the fan to have a different winner than who they saw in victory lane. Now that we have the technology we can have it taken care of sooner as well as telling the fans much sooner.
What is funny is IndyCar lets a car that fails post race tech keep a win. Bourdais had an under-weight car after his win at Milwaukee a few years ago and they let him keep the trophy.
So this is a new development? The racing series I'm involved in, this has been SOP for as long as I've been involved.
Before they would penalize money or points earned as well has having it be an "encumbered finish" for any playoff qualifications. Now they are taking the actual win away which is how it should have been from the beginning. The theory before was that they thought it wasn't fair for the fan to have a different winner than who they saw in victory lane. Now that we have the technology we can have it taken care of sooner as well as telling the fans much sooner.
What is funny is IndyCar lets a car that fails post race tech keep a win. Bourdais had an under-weight car after his win at Milwaukee a few years ago and they let him keep the trophy.
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Auto racing went into a decline when people's every day transportation became impossible to alter or modify. Cars have become incredibly complex. How many times have you read that there is more computing power in a modern Chevy Impala than there was in the Apollo space capsules. Fuel injection, ECUs, emission control, etc., took the primary source of fun away from the enthusiast - that being engine modification.
And then you have all the safety standards. An enthusiast cannot even put an after market steering wheel in a car now days. Not to mention the overall tightness of packaging which makes working on modern cars far more difficult.
So all that leaves the enthusiast is after market air filters and exhausts - just so long as they're CAT back exhausts - and don't even think about headers because those will flunk the visual inspection during an emissions test.
But fortunately we can still modify suspensions, brakes, wheels and tires; and even do our own oil changes. But even that is threatened. We all saw the all-in-one cartridge that one of the automakers (BMW?) was experimenting with. This cartridge included oil and filter, thus limiting our choice on which brand oil and filter we could use. And it would probably require hookup to the dealer's computer diagnostics system so a code could be reset when it was changed!
[censored], I can't even swap the battery with an identical size and type in my E90 BMW without needing a scan tool. And if I change the battery size and type (like the AGM I recently put in it), I need dealer-level computer diagnostics to tell my car that it has a new battery type!!!
Given all this, it's no surprise that auto racing of all types is suffering. It's not just NASCAR. Four of five years ago I went to the IndyCar race at Fontana. I'd never seen a super speedway race because I'm a road racer at heart. Anyway, the fan base looked like they emptied out every senior living home in the entire LA basin. The stands were virtually empty, 5000 fans I'd guess. And every one of them either had no hair, or had white hair like me!
Here is another perfect example of how things have changed. I read PlanetF1 every morning. They cover F1 primarily, but cover other series as well. Just recently they started covering the video game version of F1. There is actually a series for that kind of racing, one where "world champions" are made. What an EFFING joke!
And with all due respect to the BITOG members here, I don't think there are many true "gear heads" on this forum. The last engine and transmission I R&R'd was the V12 out of my E-type Jag (replaced clutch, engine mounts, and exhaust manifold gaskets). I pulled the engine and transmission in one piece - in my garage. My wife helped me. That Jag was incredibly complex but it was all nuts and bolts, not one inch thick wiring looms that branched off to dozens of unknown electronic controllers and devices.
In summary, it's not "auto racing" that's dying. It's the "gear heads" who are dying, and with that goes the death of auto racing.
Scott
You don't need a dealer level scan tool to reset your battery. All you need is a smartphone, cable, and download Carly.
Auto racing went into a decline when people's every day transportation became impossible to alter or modify. Cars have become incredibly complex. How many times have you read that there is more computing power in a modern Chevy Impala than there was in the Apollo space capsules. Fuel injection, ECUs, emission control, etc., took the primary source of fun away from the enthusiast - that being engine modification.
And then you have all the safety standards. An enthusiast cannot even put an after market steering wheel in a car now days. Not to mention the overall tightness of packaging which makes working on modern cars far more difficult.
So all that leaves the enthusiast is after market air filters and exhausts - just so long as they're CAT back exhausts - and don't even think about headers because those will flunk the visual inspection during an emissions test.
But fortunately we can still modify suspensions, brakes, wheels and tires; and even do our own oil changes. But even that is threatened. We all saw the all-in-one cartridge that one of the automakers (BMW?) was experimenting with. This cartridge included oil and filter, thus limiting our choice on which brand oil and filter we could use. And it would probably require hookup to the dealer's computer diagnostics system so a code could be reset when it was changed!
[censored], I can't even swap the battery with an identical size and type in my E90 BMW without needing a scan tool. And if I change the battery size and type (like the AGM I recently put in it), I need dealer-level computer diagnostics to tell my car that it has a new battery type!!!
Given all this, it's no surprise that auto racing of all types is suffering. It's not just NASCAR. Four of five years ago I went to the IndyCar race at Fontana. I'd never seen a super speedway race because I'm a road racer at heart. Anyway, the fan base looked like they emptied out every senior living home in the entire LA basin. The stands were virtually empty, 5000 fans I'd guess. And every one of them either had no hair, or had white hair like me!
Here is another perfect example of how things have changed. I read PlanetF1 every morning. They cover F1 primarily, but cover other series as well. Just recently they started covering the video game version of F1. There is actually a series for that kind of racing, one where "world champions" are made. What an EFFING joke!
And with all due respect to the BITOG members here, I don't think there are many true "gear heads" on this forum. The last engine and transmission I R&R'd was the V12 out of my E-type Jag (replaced clutch, engine mounts, and exhaust manifold gaskets). I pulled the engine and transmission in one piece - in my garage. My wife helped me. That Jag was incredibly complex but it was all nuts and bolts, not one inch thick wiring looms that branched off to dozens of unknown electronic controllers and devices.
In summary, it's not "auto racing" that's dying. It's the "gear heads" who are dying, and with that goes the death of auto racing.
Scott
You don't need a dealer level scan tool to reset your battery. All you need is a smartphone, cable, and download Carly.
Spec racing at the top levels of motorsports breeds boredom.
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
And with all due respect to the BITOG members here, I don't think there are many true "gear heads" on this forum.
Could not agree more, since the majority on here will put you down for seeking out a top tier, 'boutique' type oil, even for a performance car, vehemently claiming "It is not necessary", attempting to impose THEIR frugality, and 'pragmatism' conditions in which they operate said vehicle.
I joined this site as an automotive performance enthusiast FIRST and foremost, looking for yes, "the BEST" oils to use in those apps, (regardless of cost!) and wanting to learn about what made those oils 'better' for said apps, and NOT for seeking out the cheapest, and most available swills I can find, in order to feel superior while beating my chest for spending as little as possible on automotive fluids, while spending countless coin on other very expensive 'hobbies' (like drinking, gambling, etc.).
Despite 'popular opinion' on here, and even given that it is 'good' oil, Super Tech is NOT a 'one size fits ALL' solution to everything!
And with all due respect to the BITOG members here, I don't think there are many true "gear heads" on this forum.
Could not agree more, since the majority on here will put you down for seeking out a top tier, 'boutique' type oil, even for a performance car, vehemently claiming "It is not necessary", attempting to impose THEIR frugality, and 'pragmatism' conditions in which they operate said vehicle.
I joined this site as an automotive performance enthusiast FIRST and foremost, looking for yes, "the BEST" oils to use in those apps, (regardless of cost!) and wanting to learn about what made those oils 'better' for said apps, and NOT for seeking out the cheapest, and most available swills I can find, in order to feel superior while beating my chest for spending as little as possible on automotive fluids, while spending countless coin on other very expensive 'hobbies' (like drinking, gambling, etc.).
Despite 'popular opinion' on here, and even given that it is 'good' oil, Super Tech is NOT a 'one size fits ALL' solution to everything!
Why don't they limit the tires. Put some driver input into it.
Originally Posted by rideahorse
Why don't they limit the tires. Put some driver input into it.
They do actually. Each race has a tire limit. They are different depending on the length of the race and the individual track.
Why don't they limit the tires. Put some driver input into it.
They do actually. Each race has a tire limit. They are different depending on the length of the race and the individual track.
Originally Posted by billt460
NASCAR was built on "cheating".
Yup, and if you get caught, you are to dumb to keep the prize ...
What killed NASCAR was/is the COT. Run factory sheet-metal or don't run. Welded doors, not body skins. Make it about building and racing stock'ish cars. Right now it's just another "spec" series ...
NASCAR was built on "cheating".
Yup, and if you get caught, you are to dumb to keep the prize ...
What killed NASCAR was/is the COT. Run factory sheet-metal or don't run. Welded doors, not body skins. Make it about building and racing stock'ish cars. Right now it's just another "spec" series ...
Last edited:
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by billt460
NASCAR was built on "cheating".
Hear, hear!
Smokey Yunick once said: "We didn't call it cheating, we called it getting competitive."
Smokey Yunick was the greatest mechanic / designer / engineer / fabricator ever involved in NASCAR racing. It was nothing but sheer genius the way he interpreted the rule book. I'll never forget the race he won by not having to bring his car in for a, "splash and go" fuel stop at the end. Like the rest of the guys running at the front of the pack had to. Yunick's driver stayed out and won the race easily. NASCAR was immediately suspicious, and proceeded to tear his car apart in the garage.
They removed the gas tank, put it on the bench next to the car, and found it still contained fuel. They checked everything. But could not find anything wrong. They even disconnected the fuel line at the carburetor and blew air through it. It came out the back where they disconnected it at the fuel pump. Yunick knew he was caught. So he pulled a wrench out of his pocket, reattached the fuel line to the carburetor, got in the car and started it. And drove it away with the fuel tank still sitting on the bench, and the rear fuel line dragging on the ground. NASCAR impounded the car all night before they found out what he did.
He had placed a solenoid tee valve inside the frame where it could not be seen. It tee'd off a fuel line that went into the roll bar which contained extra fuel. When the other cars all came in for a splash and go, Yunick's driver reached under the dash, (they were stock cars back then), flipped a hidden switch, and ran off the few extra gallons of fuel that were contained within the roll bar itself.
They caught him, but not until the next day. He later said that Junior Johnson called him in the middle of the night. And told him he couldn't sleep until Smokey told him what he did. Yunick told him, and Johnson congratulated him on his ingenuity, and never said a word to anyone until years later. Today they all can't wait to run to the officials and squeal on each another.
Originally Posted by billt460
NASCAR was built on "cheating".
Hear, hear!
Smokey Yunick once said: "We didn't call it cheating, we called it getting competitive."
Smokey Yunick was the greatest mechanic / designer / engineer / fabricator ever involved in NASCAR racing. It was nothing but sheer genius the way he interpreted the rule book. I'll never forget the race he won by not having to bring his car in for a, "splash and go" fuel stop at the end. Like the rest of the guys running at the front of the pack had to. Yunick's driver stayed out and won the race easily. NASCAR was immediately suspicious, and proceeded to tear his car apart in the garage.
They removed the gas tank, put it on the bench next to the car, and found it still contained fuel. They checked everything. But could not find anything wrong. They even disconnected the fuel line at the carburetor and blew air through it. It came out the back where they disconnected it at the fuel pump. Yunick knew he was caught. So he pulled a wrench out of his pocket, reattached the fuel line to the carburetor, got in the car and started it. And drove it away with the fuel tank still sitting on the bench, and the rear fuel line dragging on the ground. NASCAR impounded the car all night before they found out what he did.
He had placed a solenoid tee valve inside the frame where it could not be seen. It tee'd off a fuel line that went into the roll bar which contained extra fuel. When the other cars all came in for a splash and go, Yunick's driver reached under the dash, (they were stock cars back then), flipped a hidden switch, and ran off the few extra gallons of fuel that were contained within the roll bar itself.
They caught him, but not until the next day. He later said that Junior Johnson called him in the middle of the night. And told him he couldn't sleep until Smokey told him what he did. Yunick told him, and Johnson congratulated him on his ingenuity, and never said a word to anyone until years later. Today they all can't wait to run to the officials and squeal on each another.
The changes NASCAR would have had to make would need to have been done a long time ago. Before interest in cars in general started falling off of the map.
NASCAR could turn the rule book back to 1964 at this point, and I'm not convinced it would make a difference.
NASCAR could turn the rule book back to 1964 at this point, and I'm not convinced it would make a difference.
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
The changes NASCAR would have had to make would need to have been done a long time ago. Before interest in cars in general started falling off of the map.
NASCAR could turn the rule book back to 1964 at this point, and I'm not convinced it would make a difference.
Maybe put huge, road tank SUVs on the ovals, at speed, since that seems to be the ONLY thing the U.S. public will buy lately (besides actual trucks)?
The changes NASCAR would have had to make would need to have been done a long time ago. Before interest in cars in general started falling off of the map.
NASCAR could turn the rule book back to 1964 at this point, and I'm not convinced it would make a difference.
Maybe put huge, road tank SUVs on the ovals, at speed, since that seems to be the ONLY thing the U.S. public will buy lately (besides actual trucks)?
Originally Posted by dailydriver
Maybe put huge, road tank SUVs on the ovals, at speed, since that seems to be the ONLY thing the U.S. public will buy lately (besides actual trucks)?
That would be the only thing that shows the folly of calling these contraptions "stock cars" in the first place.
Maybe put huge, road tank SUVs on the ovals, at speed, since that seems to be the ONLY thing the U.S. public will buy lately (besides actual trucks)?
That would be the only thing that shows the folly of calling these contraptions "stock cars" in the first place.
I was hoping this thread said they were going to disqualify second place runners who nerf the leader to take a phony win aka Jimmy Johnson, the Geoff Bodine of the 21st Century.
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