Traction B truck tires?

[HangFire]

Looked over the options for truck tires for the old Dakota, BJ's had the best prices. Choices for 235/75R15XL are a bit limited elsewhere due to the XL 108 load rating. BJ'S actually had a good range of choices.

With promotions I could get the BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT for $451 incl tax installed, a great deal, same price or less as Roadian Nexen Uniroyal Laredo and other second tier brand tires. (I know some where A/T's which run higher.) Overall ratings on Tire Rack were very good.

But I just couldn't do it. Why? I can't get past Traction B, and a poor wet rating in the tirerack road test. For $80 more I got the Michelin X LT, a club branded Defender. $531 out the door for 4 new Michelins!

Many of the lesser brand name tires have Traction A. What am I missing here? Is this tire even competitive? A favorite in Arizona or something? With all the rain we had in 2018 I just couldn't buy them.

 

[nthach]

I've noticed some OEM tires are traction B, and DOT doesn't do testing of tires but that test is simple and/or crude in a lab. Maybe CapriRacer can shine in.

A friend's Subaru had H or V-rated Yokohama Geolandars as OEM, 320/B/A UTQG, the new Michelin Defender T+H I recommended to him are 740/A/B, which I find a B-rated temperature rating interesting for an H-rated tire.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by nthach
……. Maybe CapriRacer can shine in. …….


Perhaps.

The UTQG rating system is a self certification system, where the tire manufacturer has to justify his rating. He doesn't have to do any testing, but when asked by NHSTA, he has to show why he gave the ratings that he did. In the case of both traction and temperature, the test is fairly simple and easy to perform - and NHTSA will from time to time spot check - and occasionally they will find a tire that doesn't meet the rating. If the manufacturer can explain why a particular tire didn't meet the standard and it was inadvertent, NHTSA will require the tire to either be relabeled or upgraded - and without penalty.

So it is possible for a tire manufacturer to under rate a tire to such a degree that they know the tire will always pass that level - and then they don't have to test it. The one thing that a tire manufacturer would be penalized for is pushing the boundaries - and the penalty is such that testing is a less expensive option unless the rating is particularly low.

In the case of the treadwear rating, the test requires the target tire AND the SRTT (Standard Reference Test Tire - a Uniroyal brand tire especially made for testing purposes with certified compounds that tests the same over time) to be tested at the same time. These wear tests are expensive, so it is common for many tests to be conducted at the same time AND it is common for tests to be run without the SRTT, but compared back to some previous test. It is also common for an abbreviated test to be run.

In the case of racing tires, it is not uncommon to see treadwear ratings of 100 or even 50 - ratings so low that there isn't even a point in spot checking to see if they can achieve that level.

And that's why you will see individual ratings that seem low.

 

[HangFire]

Thanks, CapriRacer. That explains some of it. I always enjoy your inside view of the industry.

From tirerack testing, it does seem that this tire really is a bit poor on the wet braking (though probably better than anything we had 2 decades ago). Maybe it's borderline A/B and BFG said "ah heck we'll just give it a B grade and not argue it."

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=229

"What We'd Improve: Could use a sizable improvement in wet traction. Not the best tire for spirited drivers." Also born out by the test results on the next tab of that page. And the spider charts on the next tab... brutal, but I realize the scale graduations are quite small. And yet it is best out of 31 in its category of Crossover/SUV Touring All-Season Tires.

My choice, the Michelin X LT aka Defender LTX is in a different category, Highway All-Season, which is described as 'You want pleasing comfort, predictable handling and all-season on-road traction for your crossover, sport utility vehicle or pickup." Egads, the other category is "You want a stylish appearance, sophisticated comfort and all-season on-road traction for your upscale crossover, sport utility vehicle or luxury pickup."

Trying to sort all that out. I guess I didn't choose stylish appearance, and I'm not sophisticated in my comfort choices!

Oh now I notice the BFG is #1 in a category with 141K miles reported, against (say) the 12 million reported for the Continental CrossContact LX20 (a tire I happen to own). Two orders of magnitude difference in the sample set... so statistically that's almost meaningless. And while reading reviews of the Defender LTX someone slams it for fast wear since purchased in 2013... it was introduced in 2015....

I think it all gets down to, don't trust Tire Rack reviews. Sigh. So much stuff that looks like data, I want to dive in, but....

 

[bullwinkle]

My XJ has had 235/75R15 Yokohama Geolandar A/T-Ss on it since the day I bought it (other than the studless winters used in the xold months), & I also run the Geolandars on the back of my F-450-if you can handle a little tire noise, they would be hard to beat for the price ($115.75 each at tires-easy.com).

 

[HangFire]

Thanks. I see a lot of Geolanars around on local 4x4's.

I decided to go with highway tires this time, ended up with Michelin X LT's which are club branded Defender LTX's. Great deal at BJ's with current coupons.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer


In the case of the treadwear rating, the test requires the target tire AND the SRTT (Standard Reference Test Tire - a Uniroyal brand tire especially made for testing purposes with certified compounds that tests the same over time) to be tested at the same time. These wear tests are expensive, so it is common for many tests to be conducted at the same time AND it is common for tests to be run without the SRTT, but compared back to some previous test. It is also common for an abbreviated test to be run.
.

I Googled that - and they are using a special version of the Uniroyal Tiger Paw that Michelin makes especially for this test. I wonder if the Chinese tire makers are using a 3rd party in the US to do their testing? I think I saw a mention of the Goodyear Aquatred 3 being used as a SRTT.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by nthach
I Googled that - and they are using a special version of the Uniroyal Tiger Paw that Michelin makes especially for this test...….


Not exactly. The SRTT is used every time a test can vary because of conditions. It is quite common for traction tests where the pavement surface can vary from day to day.

It is also used for rolling resistance and force and moment tests. It is NOT used for pulley wheel, balance, and uniformity tests.


Originally Posted by nthach
….. I wonder if the Chinese tire makers are using a 3rd party in the US to do their testing? ……


Not only is it common for 3rd parties to run this test, even the domestic manufacturers use 3rd parties to reduce the cost. I've seen 3 or 4 different manufacturers piggy back onto a single test.

Originally Posted by nthach
….. I think I saw a mention of the Goodyear Aquatred 3 being used as a SRTT. ….


I'm going to be a bit pedantic and say that there are only 2 tires that can be called SRTT - both Uniroyal branded made by Michelin especially for this purpose. Relatively speaking they are expensive - over $300 each.

However, it is not uncommon for tire manufacturers to use their own tires as a reference tire - both because it is soooo much cheaper and they probably have a history with their own tire that is sufficient for reference purposes. This is particularly true for the UTQG Treadwear test - which is expensive to run. A tire manufacturer may chose to run an abbreviated treadwear test using their own reference tire to save money. (Note: This is where the myth about comparing treadwear ratings only within a manufacturer comes from.)