Any recommendations -brand names? I need to do a brake fluid change on my 2014 Toyota.
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Synthetic DOT 3 or 4
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DOT 3.
You can go with DOT 4 if you wish, but you won't get anything above and beyond what DOT 3 is going to give you.
You can go with DOT 4 if you wish, but you won't get anything above and beyond what DOT 3 is going to give you.
Then why do virtually all the European car makers use 4 over 3?
Check the cap on your master cylinder and/or the owners manual. Chances are your car only requires a DOT3. Some newer cars do call for DOT4.
You can use DOT4 if your car calls for DOT3 so no issue there.
Valvoline brake fluid as said meets DOT3/4 spec so that is a safe one to use if you do not know.
You can use DOT4 if your car calls for DOT3 so no issue there.
Valvoline brake fluid as said meets DOT3/4 spec so that is a safe one to use if you do not know.
If it gets cold where you drive(like -20F) look into using a DOT4-LV. Several car manufacturers specify it.
Not necessarily a recommendation for any particular brand, but all brake fluid is "synthetic". Silicone (DOT 5) obviously is. DOT 3/4/5.1 are glycol ethers. Some sellers have decided to label their brake fluid "synthetic" but it's really pointless to do so.
I'd like to also add that all brake fluid is synthetic and has been almost forever. I mean, I've been working on cars since ~1970 and it was synthetic then. The fact that some manufacturers of brake fluid have been putting the word "SYNTHETIC" on their bottles, leads those who don't know, to buy their(which does say SYN) product instead of the le$$ expensive brand(that doesn't say SYN) right next to it on the store shelves. Both meeting the same spec and boiling/wet boiling point with DOT3 & DOT4 having their own boiling point specs. And while I'm not sure, I think that DOT 4 has higher boiling point(s) but, may in fact absorb moisture more quickly.
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Depends on which one. Castrol used to sell a DOT 4 fluid called Castrol-LMA for "low moisture activity".
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Both meeting the same spec and boiling/wet boiling point with DOT3 & DOT4 having their own boiling point specs. And while I'm not sure, I think that DOT 4 has higher boiling point(s) but, may in fact absorb moisture more quickly.
Dot 4 does have a higher boiling point if not water saturated, but what I've heard is the old formulation is no longer used, so new DOT4 (or DOT3/4) lasts as long as DOT 3.
Both meeting the same spec and boiling/wet boiling point with DOT3 & DOT4 having their own boiling point specs. And while I'm not sure, I think that DOT 4 has higher boiling point(s) but, may in fact absorb moisture more quickly.
Dot 4 does have a higher boiling point if not water saturated, but what I've heard is the old formulation is no longer used, so new DOT4 (or DOT3/4) lasts as long as DOT 3.
All brake fluid is "synthetic" based on a mix of glycol ethers.
I'd go DOT4 or DOT4 LV for longer intervals between flushes. Also, Japanese DOT3s as used on the OEM assembly line and sold at the dealer(for "warranty" services, dealers love MOC or BG crap) are closer chemically to DOT4 fluid that use borate esters to provide higher boiling points with reduced hygroscopic qualities. I like Castrol for run of the mill fluid.
I'd go DOT4 or DOT4 LV for longer intervals between flushes. Also, Japanese DOT3s as used on the OEM assembly line and sold at the dealer(for "warranty" services, dealers love MOC or BG crap) are closer chemically to DOT4 fluid that use borate esters to provide higher boiling points with reduced hygroscopic qualities. I like Castrol for run of the mill fluid.
Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Both meeting the same spec and boiling/wet boiling point with DOT3 & DOT4 having their own boiling point specs. And while I'm not sure, I think that DOT 4 has higher boiling point(s) but, may in fact absorb moisture more quickly.
Dot 4 does have a higher boiling point if not water saturated, but what I've heard is the old formulation is no longer used, so new DOT4 (or DOT3/4) lasts as long as DOT 3.
It's more convoluted than even that. Certainly the DOT 4 standard specifies a higher minimum dry boiling point than the DOT 3 standard, but it's certainly possible for a DOT 3 fluid to have a much higher dry boiling point that drops quickly when it gets wet. I understand some weekend racers use those by changing the fluid before a race day. I've seen "super heavy duty" DOT 3 fluid that claimed to have anywhere from a 450ºF to 500ºF dry boiling point. Here's one:
Quote
https://penray.com/products/super-heavy-duty-dot-3-brake-fluid/
• Dry boiling point exceeds 450ºF
• Wet boiling point 284ºF minimum
Here's the standards in the Code of Federal Regulations:
Quote
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol6/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-116.pdf
S5.1 Brake fluid. When tested in accordance with S6, brake fluids shall meet the following requirements:
S5.1.1 Equilibrium reflux boiling point (ERBP). When brake fluid is tested according to S6.1, the ERBP shall not be less than the following value for the grade indicated:
(a) DOT 3: 205 °C. (401 °F.).
(b) DOT 4: 230 °C. (446 °F.).
(c) DOT 5: 260 °C. (500 °F.).
S5.1.2 Wet ERBP. When brake fluid
is tested according to S6.2, the wet ERBP shall not be less than the following value for the grade indicated:
(a) DOT 3: 140 °C. (284 °F.).
(b) DOT 4: 155 °C. (311 °F.).
(c) DOT 5: 1 180 °C. (356 °F.).
S5.1.3. Kinematic viscosities. When brake fluid is tested according to S6.3, the kinematic viscosities in square millimeters per second at stated temperatures shall be neither less than 1.5 mm2/s at 100 °C. (212 °F.) nor more than the following maximum value for the grade indicated:
(a) DOT 3: 1,500 mm2/s at minus 40 °C. (minus 40 °F.).
(b) DOT 4: 1,800 mm2/s at minus 40 °C. (minus 40 °F.).
(c) DOT 5: 900 mm2/s at minus 40 °C. (minus 40 °F.).
S5.1.4 pH value. When brake fluid, except DOT 5 SBBF, is tested according to S6.4, the pH value shall not be less than 7.0 nor more than 11.5.
It's also convoluted with its lack of mention of DOT 5.1 other than it's a "non-silicone base" and has to be colorless to amber, while silicone must be colored purple. I suppose the assumption made is that DOT 5.1 simply must meet DOT 5 performance standards with a non-silicone base.
BTW - wasn't there some blue Pentosin DOT 4 brake fluid? I recall hearing that some would use that an alternate the blue with the amber version to determine when the previous fluid had been completely flushed out.
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Both meeting the same spec and boiling/wet boiling point with DOT3 & DOT4 having their own boiling point specs. And while I'm not sure, I think that DOT 4 has higher boiling point(s) but, may in fact absorb moisture more quickly.
Dot 4 does have a higher boiling point if not water saturated, but what I've heard is the old formulation is no longer used, so new DOT4 (or DOT3/4) lasts as long as DOT 3.
It's more convoluted than even that. Certainly the DOT 4 standard specifies a higher minimum dry boiling point than the DOT 3 standard, but it's certainly possible for a DOT 3 fluid to have a much higher dry boiling point that drops quickly when it gets wet. I understand some weekend racers use those by changing the fluid before a race day. I've seen "super heavy duty" DOT 3 fluid that claimed to have anywhere from a 450ºF to 500ºF dry boiling point. Here's one:
Quote
https://penray.com/products/super-heavy-duty-dot-3-brake-fluid/
• Dry boiling point exceeds 450ºF
• Wet boiling point 284ºF minimum
Here's the standards in the Code of Federal Regulations:
Quote
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol6/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-116.pdf
S5.1 Brake fluid. When tested in accordance with S6, brake fluids shall meet the following requirements:
S5.1.1 Equilibrium reflux boiling point (ERBP). When brake fluid is tested according to S6.1, the ERBP shall not be less than the following value for the grade indicated:
(a) DOT 3: 205 °C. (401 °F.).
(b) DOT 4: 230 °C. (446 °F.).
(c) DOT 5: 260 °C. (500 °F.).
S5.1.2 Wet ERBP. When brake fluid
is tested according to S6.2, the wet ERBP shall not be less than the following value for the grade indicated:
(a) DOT 3: 140 °C. (284 °F.).
(b) DOT 4: 155 °C. (311 °F.).
(c) DOT 5: 1 180 °C. (356 °F.).
S5.1.3. Kinematic viscosities. When brake fluid is tested according to S6.3, the kinematic viscosities in square millimeters per second at stated temperatures shall be neither less than 1.5 mm2/s at 100 °C. (212 °F.) nor more than the following maximum value for the grade indicated:
(a) DOT 3: 1,500 mm2/s at minus 40 °C. (minus 40 °F.).
(b) DOT 4: 1,800 mm2/s at minus 40 °C. (minus 40 °F.).
(c) DOT 5: 900 mm2/s at minus 40 °C. (minus 40 °F.).
S5.1.4 pH value. When brake fluid, except DOT 5 SBBF, is tested according to S6.4, the pH value shall not be less than 7.0 nor more than 11.5.
It's also convoluted with its lack of mention of DOT 5.1 other than it's a "non-silicone base" and has to be colorless to amber, while silicone must be colored purple. I suppose the assumption made is that DOT 5.1 simply must meet DOT 5 performance standards with a non-silicone base.
BTW - wasn't there some blue Pentosin DOT 4 brake fluid? I recall hearing that some would use that an alternate the blue with the amber version to determine when the previous fluid had been completely flushed out.
There was ATE Super Blue Racing - it was sold for years until DOT caught on. It violated one of the FMVSS regulations on brake fluid that glycol-based fluid had to be amber or yellow colored. Mineral oil-based fluid such as that used in some Rolls-Royce/Bentley and Jaguar models was green in color and had special filling tips to reduce the likelihood a DOT-fluid based system was accidentally topped off HSMO and vice versa.
Use Valvoline brake fluid. It's DOT3/4. "Synthetic" means squat. DOT 3/4 is DOT 3/4.
Originally Posted by nthach
There was ATE Super Blue Racing - it was sold for years until DOT caught on. It violated one of the FMVSS regulations on brake fluid that glycol-based fluid had to be amber or yellow colored. Mineral oil-based fluid such as that used in some Rolls-Royce/Bentley and Jaguar models was green in color and had special filling tips to reduce the likelihood a DOT-fluid based system was accidentally topped off HSMO and vice versa.
Yeah - it was ATE. For some reason I was thinking Pentosin. When I had a shop change my brake pads they used ATE DOT 4.
There was ATE Super Blue Racing - it was sold for years until DOT caught on. It violated one of the FMVSS regulations on brake fluid that glycol-based fluid had to be amber or yellow colored. Mineral oil-based fluid such as that used in some Rolls-Royce/Bentley and Jaguar models was green in color and had special filling tips to reduce the likelihood a DOT-fluid based system was accidentally topped off HSMO and vice versa.
Yeah - it was ATE. For some reason I was thinking Pentosin. When I had a shop change my brake pads they used ATE DOT 4.
Originally Posted by Yah-Tah-Hey
Use Valvoline brake fluid. It's DOT3/4. "Synthetic" means squat. DOT 3/4 is DOT 3/4.
DOT 3/4 is really DOT 4. It specifies a standard, and if it meets all DOT 4 standards it by definition meets the lower DOT 3 standards.
But there are many different variations on brake fluid.
Use Valvoline brake fluid. It's DOT3/4. "Synthetic" means squat. DOT 3/4 is DOT 3/4.
DOT 3/4 is really DOT 4. It specifies a standard, and if it meets all DOT 4 standards it by definition meets the lower DOT 3 standards.
But there are many different variations on brake fluid.
Don't get hung up on the "synthetic" label. All brake fluid is synthetic but just to confuse us they only recently started marketing normal Dot 4 with the term synthetic.
Originally Posted by barryh
Don't get hung up on the "synthetic" label. All brake fluid is synthetic but just to confuse us they only recently started marketing normal Dot 4 with the term synthetic.
Valvoline was doing it as far back as the late 90s under their "SynPower" line of fluids. They claimed near Dot 5.1 boiling points.
Don't get hung up on the "synthetic" label. All brake fluid is synthetic but just to confuse us they only recently started marketing normal Dot 4 with the term synthetic.
Valvoline was doing it as far back as the late 90s under their "SynPower" line of fluids. They claimed near Dot 5.1 boiling points.
Originally Posted by Patrick0525
Any recommendations -brand names? I need to do a brake fluid change on my 2014 Toyota.
Honestly, unless you're going to be racing or doing heavy duty towing, anything that meets spec is fine. Supertech will work just as well, in practical terms, as the more expensive stuff. The high dollar stuff is great for racers or heavy towing, but otherwise you will never get close to the point where it'd be an issue.
Any recommendations -brand names? I need to do a brake fluid change on my 2014 Toyota.
Honestly, unless you're going to be racing or doing heavy duty towing, anything that meets spec is fine. Supertech will work just as well, in practical terms, as the more expensive stuff. The high dollar stuff is great for racers or heavy towing, but otherwise you will never get close to the point where it'd be an issue.
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