Who's mixing E85 in turbo w/DI?

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Sayonara_Sonata

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I'm looking, on the line isn't everyone?, but info is scarce & far betwixt on mixing E85 or whatever flavour at the local pump. Here it's 70% or so they claim.

I've read what surely will become the old standby, "Add a gallon, see what shakes then add another, continue until something shakes or nothing shakes".

Rather than change injectors, LSFP do a tune yada, yada I'm content w/fatter torque curve and a few more ponies on E85 mix.

Any advice, horror stories, old wive's tales, scuttlebutt, rumours, myths, lies, misinformation, secondhand information, disinformation, gossip or anyone a preordained psychic?

'ell I'll listen to anybody.
 
not directly related but I know the 88octane e15 mix runs better than regular 87 in the
Cherokee 2.0T (usually 10c cheaper)

Not that 87 is terrible but it recommends 91 requires 87.

I run 93 in it when sams club has it for cheap(sometimes its as little as 30cents more)
or when I'm towing.

I had 5-6gal of of 93, added 8 gallons of 87, could tell the difference immediately. On way home 200miles later gas prices were going up 35cents/gal

so I filled up with e15@$1.79 about 10 gallons.. runs much better.. even though theoretically the octane is even lower than the mix I had in it previously.

I am not an ethanol fan but its interesting.. gas mileage hasn't fell off a cliff or been noticeably different either.
 
I know my 2002 Silverado runs way better when I mix E85 at a 50/50 mix to 93. Crisper throttle response and just seems to have more power. I also like the smell of the exhaust.

My daughters 2012 Cruze 1.4 turbo loves it, but it isn't DI.
 
This is my first go around w/E85, 70% locally, mix. Likewise me auto runs noticeably better at 91 & a bit more at 93 octane. By seat o' the pants cipherin', naught n naught carry the naught, I figure I'm at least 93 octane w/current mix in the tank. The wet tailpipes predictably dried up, engine runs a mite cooler and turbo lag at low speed, as Clark Gable, is Gone w/the Wind.

MPG dipped to almost 21, but after I stopped playing Speed Racer & merely drove spirited it climbed back up to 24.6. Which is about summertime triple digit or close ambient temps w/A/C running reading. All in all not bad.

I speculate that the higher octane allows for more & quicker spark advance whilst the O2 sensor calls for more mix to prevent running lean. This seems to allow the turbo to come on faster. Not more boost say at top end/max RPM, but w/mix more boost at lower RPMs than w/ regular 10% ethanol.

More ethanol is less power unless you're pumping more of it in the cylinders that along w/cooling effect doesn't waste as much energy through heat. all at the price of less MPG. That's a price I do not mind paying. It cannot be just the increase of octane from 89 to 93. It runs as good if not better than when I ran E-free 92 octane. Plus the mix is cheaper, so I recoup at least some of the MPG lost.

I understand there's a meter available that will analyze % of ethanol in E-85. Will it do the same from a fuel sample from a mix? I'd like to accurately what I'm running currently in the tank.

I recall once looking up a method of measuring amount of petrol in a graduated container then shaking it & measuring the amount that floated. That Might have been for testing e-free gas.
 
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https://www.delphiautoparts.com/gbr/en/toolbox/how-test-alcohol-content-gasoline

You'll need a graduated cylinder — we suggest fifty milliliters, but you can use a larger one too. You'll also need a small amount of gas and water.

Pour ten milliliters of gas into the cylinder. Then pour in two milliliters of water. Cover the cylinder and shake it for about one minute. Then let it stand for up to fifteen minutes.

After about fifteen minutes, you'll see that the water sinks to the bottom. Take a reading where the water and alcohol separate. If there is no alcohol in the gasoline, you'll see the separation at the two milliliter mark, which is the amount of water that you started with. If the separation line is above the two milliliter mark, you've got alcohol in the gasoline.

So let's figure out how much alcohol — or the percentage. Just take the number of milliliters at the separation line and subtract two milliliters — which was the amount of water we added. Take the number you get and multiply it by ten, and that is the percentage of alcohol in the gasoline. If you find that the alcohol content of your customer's gasoline is high, that may be a sign that your customer has been using ethanol.

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding ... We 'ave a winner!
 
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Originally Posted by Sayonara_Sonata
I'm content w/fatter torque curve and a few more ponies on E85 mix.


How exactly do you believe you are getting a fatter torque curve and a few more ponies by adding a fuel with less energy per volume? Sure, if your ECM was tuned to dump in additional fuel to maintain AFRs at the correct ratio, you may be able to take advantage of the higher octane and cooling effect, but it's simple math... you're adding a fuel with 30% less energy, and your ECM and stock injectors likely cannot correct for the amount needed. All you're doing is running much leaner if you are running 70% ethanol, but you're still not going to be able to "add" power unless your engine is able to add enough fuel.

Sounds more like a case of "I want to believe, so I do" in the face of evidence that shows there really is no difference. GLWTT
 
I use to run 2-3 gallons of E85 in my old Turbo Saab. Helped add a little extra kick with the mods I made on it.

I did not try anything higher as I was afraid it would damage the fuel system/engine since it was not designed for E85. So be careful running to much.
 
Originally Posted by Rat407
I know my 2002 Silverado runs way better when I mix E85 at a 50/50 mix to 93. Crisper throttle response and just seems to have more power. I also like the smell of the exhaust.

My daughters 2012 Cruze 1.4 turbo loves it, but it isn't DI.


I'm too skeerd to go 50/50.

Your Silverado must love tonnes of octane. That 50/50 is over 100, just cypherin' from the seat o' me pants..
 
I could run to almost E30 in my turbo Audi A3 before it would trip a CEL.
I run E85 in my Silverado 100% of the time.
My injectors are already maxed in my Abarth...so no room for E85 on that one (pushing nearly 230hp with that little monster on premium).
Wife's is too new to play games with yet...early reports say the engine is stout enough to handle double the stock hp.
 
Originally Posted by Sayonara_Sonata
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Sayonara_Sonata
I'm content w/fatter torque curve and a few more ponies on E85 mix.


How exactly do you believe you are getting a fatter torque curve and a few more ponies by adding a fuel with less energy per volume? Sure, if your ECM was tuned to dump in additional fuel to maintain AFRs at the correct ratio, you may be able to take advantage of the higher octane and cooling effect, but it's simple math... you're adding a fuel with 30% less energy, and your ECM and stock injectors likely cannot correct for the amount needed. All you're doing is running much leaner if you are running 70% ethanol, but you're still not going to be able to "add" power unless your engine is able to add enough fuel.

Sounds more like a case of "I want to believe, so I do" in the face of evidence that shows there really is no difference. GLWTT


,

Please do indulge me more papa w/your automotive expertise from when the early 1970s?


Typical troll... you've been here for a grand total of 14 posts, and you choose to reply to a valid request of proof of your claim with derision and disbelief that someone would question you. Why don't you just disappear back into your fairy-tale world, or one of the other internet forums that lives to thrive on conflict and name-calling? [ignore]
 
I don't think I would play too much with E85 in a car not equipped for it. I purchased a flex fuel system for my subaru, it will be going in this summer. With the proper injectors, pump, and tune full E85 should add around 70hp in my set up, and can be monitored via the accessport.

Impossible to know really how hard your pump, injectors, and timing are running without the equipment. It may work until it doesn't work.
 
Originally Posted by DriveHard
I could run to almost E30 in my turbo Audi A3 before it would trip a CEL.
I run E85 in my Silverado 100% of the time.
My injectors are already maxed in my Abarth...so no room for E85 on that one (pushing nearly 230hp with that little monster on premium).
Wife's is too new to play games with yet...early reports say the engine is stout enough to handle double the stock hp.


How did the Audi run on almost E30 compared to petrol? Snoopin' 'round I speculated somewhere betwixt E20-30 would be the sweet spot.

At the same time I'm looking for folks w/turbo 4s that boosted the turbo a bit & ran ethanol mix.

Thanks for the info.
 
Originally Posted by mcwilly
I don't think I would play too much with E85 in a car not equipped for it. I purchased a flex fuel system for my subaru, it will be going in this summer. With the proper injectors, pump, and tune full E85 should add around 70hp in my set up, and can be monitored via the accessport.

Impossible to know really how hard your pump, injectors, and timing are running without the equipment. It may work until it doesn't work.


You have a point. There's several variables to take into consideration. On the plus side I'm not looking at maximum torque/HP. But, I'm adding a chip that boosts the turbo. I'm already at 17.4lbs. Combine the E-mix w/lowest setting on the chip and I'm looking at another 3.5-4lbs boost.

The auto is already running on 10% ethanol, I'm too worried about upping that percentage. It has a wideband O2 sensor, so if I stay under E30 I should be OK. However, the wild card is the extra maybe 4lbs boost. All in all the modest ethanol mix/boost combo, what maybe 40'lb torque & 30 extra ponies?
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo

Nada


Surely there's other threads for you to languish in comfort whilst challenging your wit.
 
Originally Posted by Sayonara_Sonata

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo

Nada


Surely there's other threads for you to languish in comfort whilst challenging your wit.

What dialect of pig Latin are you using when you type ? My computer doesn't recognize it .
 
Originally Posted by Sayonara_Sonata
Oy vey! I offer the same advice unto youse mack.

Und for others, that may well wish to defend their gay lover's honour, read the title.

I wish to engage in discussion w/others that have mixed, ethanol w/petrol. I've chosen E85 as that is available here.

I'm nein stickler on OT.

Howevah, da cahs in question are primarily turbos dat come equipped w/wideband O2 sensah.


I've little patience for naysayers, Chicken Littles or fearmongers.

You've paid no price of admission to imply right of explanation on anything, period.

This thread isn't indicative of a cult. There's no recruiting. It is casual conversation that orbits around the wonder of mixing corn squeezin's.

We might even delve into coal oil.


By we I do not include you and me, so vaya con dios muchacho!.

Put on ignore
 
I can say that my 2002 Silverado would throw a CEL, Bacially saying Banks 1 and 2 running lean. But after a few tanks I don't get the CEL anymore. My take on it is the E85 burns so much cleaner the it senses it is running lean when it isn't. I don't run 100% because I can't take full advantage of the FF but running it at 50/50 seems to be the sweet spot for me.
 
Of course I'm running lean as well due to the differences in petrol & ethanol. But, my increase in ethanol "only" takes me to around 20% give or take I don't know 5pts either way? Plus, I have to trust the numbers at the pump for how much ethanol is in the local E85. As well as the auto petrol gauge. Is half way half a tank? I'm going to look into an inline ethanol meter. I've read a bit about them. For the time being I suppose a small diameter clear hose could be snaked into the tank for a sample. I could buy the budget test tube for the add water/mix/shake/sit/take reading for the time being.

The little I-4 2.0T w/variable valve timing likes a little Ethanol back whilst drinking petrol. The extra octane of ethanol allows me to purchase less expensive/octane gasoline. I had wet tailpipes, me apologizes if I'm being redundant, which as predicted, wasn't that big a prediction really, dried up to black soot.

The mill always ran rich. Punch the throttle & black smoke/soot comes out as a mini-diesel. This was their way of insuring plenty of cooling w/DI under boost. Lean & overheating go hand in hand as rich & cool. DI also excels in contaminating crankcase oil. This is why I've always advocated 5w-40. A lot of guys seeking a bit more response/MPG foolishly went down the 0-5w-20 path. Which if your OC was 2K-2.5K would probably work. I prefer 5K.

I'm looking at modest, economical gains. Where the majority of those mounting bolt-on performance parts, including chips for extra boost or ECM tune for new fuel/timing maps, are seeking extreme shift in power & longevity.

Me campaign slogan is, "Modest gain naught insane".

That is not necessarily a reflection on personal mental status though.

As a rule I do not drive a steady 1500rpm 50-55mph two-lane, but my MPG shot up further than I've ever been able to achieve.

Part of this result is due unto running leaner on the extra E-mix.
 
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Dang! That edit clock is fast.

How many miles at 50/50? Any mods? Did you change spark plug heat range or anything within the fuel delivery system?

Any diff in MPG, warm up times or choke rpms? Would you say your performance increase is more noticeable on the low end? Any diff in shift points presuming A/T.

I've read where a complete changeover from petrol to E85 is good for 5% overall performance. This was a hot rod site, so I take the generic, one size fits all,claim w/grain of salt.
 
Originally Posted by Sayonara_Sonata
Originally Posted by DriveHard
I could run to almost E30 in my turbo Audi A3 before it would trip a CEL.
I run E85 in my Silverado 100% of the time.
My injectors are already maxed in my Abarth...so no room for E85 on that one (pushing nearly 230hp with that little monster on premium).
Wife's is too new to play games with yet...early reports say the engine is stout enough to handle double the stock hp.


How did the Audi run on almost E30 compared to petrol? Snoopin' 'round I speculated somewhere betwixt E20-30 would be the sweet spot.

At the same time I'm looking for folks w/turbo 4s that boosted the turbo a bit & ran ethanol mix.

Thanks for the info.



It ran just fine...couldn't tell a difference one way or the other over running straight premium. Fuel mileage did take a slight hit, but I was after a reduction in price to fill the tank. Instead of using premium, I would do roughly 70% regular pump gas and roughly 30% E85. That usually got me right around E30 final mix with an octane rating just over 91.
 
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