Toyota V8 - TGMO 0W20 alternative with PAO?

[ringmaster]

I have two Toyota V8s (2014 Tundra 5.7L & 2012 Lexus 4.6L) and am wondering if there are any high-quality 0W20s that might offer some advantages to the factory-fill TGMO 0W20 synthetic. Being an old school car guy with a thick head I still run 6k OCIs for these engines which usually equates to approx six months of driving.

It would be nice to find an oil that could match the TGMO's cold start performance at -10F but offer improved (at least on paper) protection for hard use while towing or mountain driving. Both of these trucks regularly tow ~2500lb trailers and travel over mountain passes where the engines are often run @ WOT and high RPM for long periods while climbing and passing slower traffic. Most commuter cars would never subject TGMO 0W20 to this kind of abuse which got me thinking that a light 0W30 like M1 AFE could be a good match for the engines, especially since I am not worries about warranty implications or possible impact on fuel economy.

TGMO gets a lot of love on this forum and I have no reason to believe it isn't an excellent oil but for my usage and without worrying about cost or extended OCIs is there something better?

 

[Pelican]

There is this, but it's available in Australia: Genuine Toyota Tgmo SAE 0W-30 Syn Diesel Oil Part TO0888083327

The rest of the world gets oil we don't even she the shadow of here, thanks to CAFE.

 

[y_p_w]

Sure. Red Line 0W-20. It's not going to be cheap though. However, it's probably where I wouldn't hesitate to go up to the full normal service OCI.

Some might recommend Amsoil SS 0W-20. Possibly bump up to 0W-30 in Red Line or Amsoil if you're really worried.

 

[Danno]

If they were my vehicles, I would run a quality 5W-30 such as Pennzoil Platinum.
You wouldn't notice the difference in cold start (I run the 3.5L Venza in much colder weather with 5W-30 PP), but it would be a nice bump up in viscosity for the WOT.

 

[Gokhan]

M1 EP 0W-20 and M1 AP 0W-20 are both PAO-based.

 

[ringmaster]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Sure. Red Line 0W-20. It's not going to be cheap though. However, it's probably where I wouldn't hesitate to go up to the full normal service OCI.

Some might recommend Amsoil SS 0W-20. Possibly bump up to 0W-30 in Red Line or Amsoil if you're really worried.


I would run Redline 0W20 if it works well for very cold temp starts and offers better severe use protection compared to TGMO 0W20.


Quote
M1 EP 0W-20 and M1 AP 0W-20 are both PAO-based.


Good to know. On paper M1 EP 0W20 doesn't look as robust as Redline 0W20 but maybe it is just as good as a daily driver oil?

Any experience with M1 ESP X1 0W30? It is PAO-based? Maybe I could mix M1 EP 0W20 and ESP X1 0W30 to create a nice custom blend?

 

[Gokhan]

M1 AFE 0W-16, M1 EP 0W-20, and M1 AP 0W-20 are the only three PAO-based Mobil 1 oils.

I'm not sure what you mean by not as robust but M1 EP 0W-20 is meant for extended OCIs and will outlast most if not all off-the-shelf 0W-20s.

 

[ringmaster]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
M1 AFE 0W-16, M1 EP 0W-20, and M1 AP 0W-20 are the only three PAO-based Mobil 1 oils.

I'm not sure what you mean by not as robust but M1 EP 0W-20 is meant for extended OCIs and will outlast most if not all off-the-shelf 0W-20s.


Thanks for the PAO info. I take it that " M1 AFE 0W-16" in tongue-in-cheek because it is such a light oil?

By robust I mean able to withstand severe operation conditions such at WOT + high RPM at high temps ..... I guess this is aka HTHS! No matter how good the oil is my narrow mind won't let me do extended OCIs

 

[Gokhan]

M1 AFE 0W-16 (PAO-based) and TGMO 0W-16 (GTL-based and made by Exxon Mobil) are the specd oil for some newer Toyota engines.

If you need higher HTHSV (for racing etc.), go with a thicker oil, such as a 5W-30 or 5W-40. You can even use a CK-4/SN PLUS 5W-40 such as the Chevron Delo XSP 5W-40. Extended OCI has to do with the base-oil quality (PAO, GTL, etc.) and TBN, as well some additive chemistry, but not with KV100 or HTHSV.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Oil temp under hard usage? Any engine clatter right after the long pass? If No odd noises and oil temp is under 230F.May wish to keep what you got.

 

[danthaman1980]

If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend".

Other than that, I think you're stuck looking at the really limited 0W-30 options, or looking into boutique 0W-20s that may or may not have any practical benefit over the already-really-good TGMO. 6mo/6k miles isn't really that long on a modern synthetic, as long as your engine doesn't suffer from fuel dilution.

If extended drain is really your only concern, M1 EP, Castrol EP, or Amsoil SS (or XL) are all formulated for extended drains - but I'd question whether any of these in 0W-20 flavor would offer any benefit over TGMO at 6mo/6k mile intervals.

Just my opinion!

 

[nascarnation]

This guy ran a million miles with dealer maintenance, not sure what the oil is.
But I'd guess you could run anything that's API approved and get at least a half million.

https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/million-mile-tundra-2016.htm

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by nascarnation
This guy ran a million miles with dealer maintenance, not sure what the oil is.
But I'd guess you could run anything that's API approved and get at least a half million.

https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/million-mile-tundra-2016.htm

I'm guessing multiple dealers who would have used different motor oils at the very least. I remember participating in some maintenance discussions where it included some who felt that it might be best to use the same motor oil brands consistently for better additive compatibility after changing oil. It usually shouldn't be an issue if it's 80-90% of the oil being changed at a time. And of course there are often changes to the additive pack and even suppliers when it comes to house brands like SuperTech or manufacturer branded. But the rationale I heard of sticking with a particular brand is that they've likely tested it for specific compatibility with any previous versions of their own product.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
M1 EP 0W-20 and M1 AP 0W-20 are both PAO-based.


This.

 

[ringmaster]

Originally Posted by danthaman1980
If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend".


I have seen forum members mention "the Caterham Blend" but never knew what it was. A complete oil + filter drain and fill is ~8L so maybe 6 x 0W20 and 2 x 0W40 for a little more high temp protection?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by danthaman1980
If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend"


And those oils aren't even remotely similar in chemistry, so I wouldn't be overly inclined to pursue this endeavour assuming that you'll result in a "better" product. You'll end up with what may be a 5w-30 with unknown performance characteristics and zero manufacturer approvals.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by danthaman1980
If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend"


And those oils aren't even remotely similar in chemistry, so I wouldn't be overly inclined to pursue this endeavour assuming that you'll result in a "better" product. You'll end up with what may be a 5w-30 with unknown performance characteristics and zero manufacturer approvals.

I'd be curious as to whether or not anyone did any VOAs and UOAs on that blend.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by danthaman1980
If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend"
And those oils aren't even remotely similar in chemistry, so I wouldn't be overly inclined to pursue this endeavour assuming that you'll result in a "better" product. You'll end up with what may be a 5w-30 with unknown performance characteristics and zero manufacturer approvals.

You mean when you mix the two, you could be looking at something like this?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by danthaman1980
If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend"


And those oils aren't even remotely similar in chemistry, so I wouldn't be overly inclined to pursue this endeavour assuming that you'll result in a "better" product. You'll end up with what may be a 5w-30 with unknown performance characteristics and zero manufacturer approvals.

I'd be curious as to whether or not anyone did any VOAs and UOAs on that blend.


I would have liked to see CCS and MRV personally.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by danthaman1980
If you're in to mixing your own, I know others have historically had really good luck mixing the TGMO 0W-20 with M1 0W-40. Years ago, this combo affectionately came to be known on BITOG as the "Caterham Blend"
And those oils aren't even remotely similar in chemistry, so I wouldn't be overly inclined to pursue this endeavour assuming that you'll result in a "better" product. You'll end up with what may be a 5w-30 with unknown performance characteristics and zero manufacturer approvals.

You mean when you mix the two, you could be looking at something like this?

Exactly!

You think you are getting J-Lo's lower half with Meghan Fox's upper and you end up with Rosie O'Donnell.