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Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5008075
02/11/19 02:47 PM
02/11/19 02:47 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,899
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Online content
Char Baby  Online Content

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,899
ROCHESTER, NY
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Pinoak
I shake but never more than 3 times.


If you shake it more than 3 times, you're just playing with it.


Stirred, not shaken.


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008122
02/11/19 03:31 PM
02/11/19 03:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,829
Texas
Dallas69 Offline
Dallas69  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,829
Texas
Totally unnecessary to prefill a filter except for vehicles that do require it.
Just some ocd nonsense from someone with a history of it.


2009 Galant-ultra oil and filter
1987 Ford F-150 302
Smittys 5-30
Motorcraft filter
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008165
02/11/19 04:31 PM
02/11/19 04:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 564
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 564
E. Tennessee
Well that discussion went to "11" pretty quickly!

My Optima's oil filter position (straight up) allows me to fully pre-fill my oil filter which I do. I shake my 5qt jug of oil as well. And I DO play with it!
I like seeing my oil pressure light go out near instantly upon starting her up.

I do wish Fram would seal their filters with plastic (like my OEM does, at least the Ultra's anyway) and not just the quality seal on the box but I always inspect them with a strong light anyway prior to filling them with oil - "just in case" I bought a dud.

What was the name of the prolific BITOG poster who always advocated for this and he passed about a year or two ago? He seemed to be a pretty nice guy.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (78K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (79K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: StevieC] #5008185
02/11/19 04:47 PM
02/11/19 04:47 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,403
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline
Patman  Offline

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,403
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by StevieC
My point was that if it was beneficial or detrimental they would have a statement either way.



For the longest time I always pre filled my oil filters before putting them on, but now I don't bother as I don't think it will make a difference either way, so by NOT doing it anymore it saves me a messy step at oil change time. I still make sure to put some fresh oil on the gasket though, I never put the filter on an engine without that important step.


2018 Corvette, 9k, M1 ESP Formula 5w30 & NAPA Gold
2006 Civic EX Coupe, 148k, PUP 5w20 & Fram Ultra
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive,111k, GC 0w40 & Fram Ultra

Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008329
02/11/19 07:43 PM
02/11/19 07:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,564
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,564
...
I prefill my filter out of habit but with the Mazda the filter is So small it probably will fill up in a flash. So it might be unnecessary.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Patman] #5008460
02/11/19 11:21 PM
02/11/19 11:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,399
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,399
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by StevieC
My point was that if it was beneficial or detrimental they would have a statement either way.



For the longest time I always pre filled my oil filters before putting them on, but now I don't bother as I don't think it will make a difference either way, so by NOT doing it anymore it saves me a messy step at oil change time. I still make sure to put some fresh oil on the gasket though, I never put the filter on an engine without that important step.

Especially on a CRV where you can't easily get a belt wrench around the filter. My father inlaw did the change and then I did the following one and guess who had to try and get the filter off after 1 year after it had been put on dry. THIS GUY! smirk2 Let me tell you how I mangled that filter.


'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 21k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w30
'06 Hyundai Santa Fe - 535k KM (Dead) - AMSOIL SS 0w30
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: WhizkidTN] #5008481
02/12/19 12:36 AM
02/12/19 12:36 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,078
Fort Lauderdale, FL
DoubleWasp Offline
DoubleWasp  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,078
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Well that discussion went to "11" pretty quickly!

My Optima's oil filter position (straight up) allows me to fully pre-fill my oil filter which I do. I shake my 5qt jug of oil as well. And I DO play with it!
I like seeing my oil pressure light go out near instantly upon starting her up.

I do wish Fram would seal their filters with plastic (like my OEM does, at least the Ultra's anyway) and not just the quality seal on the box but I always inspect them with a strong light anyway prior to filling them with oil - "just in case" I bought a dud.

What was the name of the prolific BITOG poster who always advocated for this and he passed about a year or two ago? He seemed to be a pretty nice guy.



You'd love the filter for my car. Not only does it come sealed in plastic, but they actually test it on a rig that pumps oil through it and cap the base end with a hard plastic cover before bagging it.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: StevieC] #5008482
02/12/19 12:50 AM
02/12/19 12:50 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,183
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Online content
y_p_w  Online Content

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,183
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by StevieC
My point was that if it was beneficial or detrimental they would have a statement either way.



For the longest time I always pre filled my oil filters before putting them on, but now I don't bother as I don't think it will make a difference either way, so by NOT doing it anymore it saves me a messy step at oil change time. I still make sure to put some fresh oil on the gasket though, I never put the filter on an engine without that important step.

Especially on a CRV where you can't easily get a belt wrench around the filter. My father inlaw did the change and then I did the following one and guess who had to try and get the filter off after 1 year after it had been put on dry. THIS GUY! smirk2 Let me tell you how I mangled that filter.

Every oil filter I've used has some instructions or a drawing indicating that at least a drop of oil needs to go on the gasket. I mean - who skips that step?

And over the years I've collected a variety of different oil filter removal tools. Some were filter specific cap wrenches and only work on some shapes. Some instructions even say to use a cap wrench to install since they cause little damage to the can. I can't find most of them though.

I had a Lisle metal band wrench and tried using it on my WRX where it frankly was a bad choice. I had no other tool at the time to do it. Also a claw somewhere that was a piece of junk. But the one I use now is a cam-action one for small filters. This may not be the exact model, but mine is similar. It's like a Vise Grip that I can use with a 3/8 socket wrench.

[Linked Image]

Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: DoubleWasp] #5008488
02/12/19 01:49 AM
02/12/19 01:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 211
Fort Worth
Pinoak Offline
Pinoak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 211
Fort Worth
[You'd love the filter for my car. Not only does it come sealed in plastic, but they actually test it on a rig that pumps oil through it and cap the base end with a hard plastic cover before bagging it.[/quote]

What filter is that?

Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008505
02/12/19 03:42 AM
02/12/19 03:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,278
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,278
'Stralia
More BITOG gold....

Facts
* new oil can be very very dirty
* prefilling put the new oil on the engine side of the rock trap
* bypass is closed when the filter is passing air to pre-fill the engine
* the dirty oil that you are emptying into the engine gets to go through the filter first before the bearings
* even at that point IF the filter is in bypass, then some/most of the oil gets through the media.
* prefilling gives you more chance of dropping something bigger down the hole, which another poster has identified with bits of foil.
* there is no metal to metal contact on that start, as there's plenty of oil and tribofilm left from when the engine was running.

Another fact is that I have never seen an automotive maintenance document produced by an OEM that tells one to prefill a filter...would be very interested in seeing one, to make it my first.

Of COURSE manuals telling you not to prefill are not common (the big diesel example cited excepted), as telling you to not to do something that you wouldn't normally do is superfluous:
* don't add coolant to windshield washer fluid
* don't use icepick to clear windscreen.


The Dunning Kruger effect is real.
The Galileo Fallacy is real.
Roll them into one neat package and crackmeup crackmeup crackmeup
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008510
02/12/19 04:09 AM
02/12/19 04:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,248
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,248
Orlando, FL
Wow. So many replys for something sooooooo unimportant...

Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Mr Nice] #5008514
02/12/19 04:27 AM
02/12/19 04:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,278
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,278
'Stralia
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Wow. So many replys for something sooooooo unimportant...



Yeah...fancy you having three posts already....

BTW..."no harm done" is another way of saying "nothing blew up"...yep, the new BITOG standard.


The Dunning Kruger effect is real.
The Galileo Fallacy is real.
Roll them into one neat package and crackmeup crackmeup crackmeup
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008565
02/12/19 06:55 AM
02/12/19 06:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,903
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,903
The Old North State
I've already stated what I do, so won't repeat that.

I'd say using the, enough engine oil film at start up without prefill as argument, taken to it's logical conclusion would also mean that adbvs in oil filters are completely unnecessary. That true, oil filter companies wasting a lot of money including them.

Also bits of foil from container seal just as likely to be dumped down the fill hole with an OC as with prefilling the filter. So, being non observant or unlucky at any point in the OC can be a hazard.

Still difficult for me to accept that 100% of same new oil dumped down the fill hole never touches any bearings surface before going through the oil filter.

Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5008715
02/12/19 10:28 AM
02/12/19 10:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,399
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,399
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by Shannow
More BITOG gold....

Facts
* new oil can be very very dirty
* prefilling put the new oil on the engine side of the rock trap
* bypass is closed when the filter is passing air to pre-fill the engine
* the dirty oil that you are emptying into the engine gets to go through the filter first before the bearings
* even at that point IF the filter is in bypass, then some/most of the oil gets through the media.
* prefilling gives you more chance of dropping something bigger down the hole, which another poster has identified with bits of foil.
* there is no metal to metal contact on that start, as there's plenty of oil and tribofilm left from when the engine was running.

Another fact is that I have never seen an automotive maintenance document produced by an OEM that tells one to prefill a filter...would be very interested in seeing one, to make it my first.

Of COURSE manuals telling you not to prefill are not common (the big diesel example cited excepted), as telling you to not to do something that you wouldn't normally do is superfluous:
* don't add coolant to windshield washer fluid
* don't use icepick to clear windscreen.



Maybe we should all make remote filter mount pump setups with screw on 2 micron hydraulic filters and pre-filter our oil before pouring it into the engine. Especially for Toyota's. LOL

My question is why don't we see some crazy number in VOA's with metal counts, silica and insolubles if this were a problem? (Not being sarcastic, actually asking...)

Last edited by StevieC; 02/12/19 10:31 AM.

'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - 21k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w30
'06 Hyundai Santa Fe - 535k KM (Dead) - AMSOIL SS 0w30
Re: Never Prefill oil filters! [Re: Shannow] #5008810
02/12/19 11:43 AM
02/12/19 11:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,842
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,842
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by Shannow
...
* new oil can be very very dirty. ...
What's your evidence that any reputable brand of oil is likely to contain suspended "dirt" hard enough to cause damage?

Sayjac's point about adbvs seems reasonable, though. That's why I didn't worry excessively after noticing they tended to leak on long runs.

Last edited by CR94; 02/12/19 11:46 AM.

2011 Toyota Prius now at 96K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
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