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Re: The History on Samsung - Techquickie [Re: StevieC] #5007966
02/11/19 01:25 PM
02/11/19 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,101
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,101
California
I have better luck with Samsung when it comes to memory/SSDs and TVs. I think you can't beat Samsung when it comes to RAM, flash and LCDs/OLEDs. Samsung SSDs are all made in-house, unlike others which buy 3rd party controllers and NAND from SK Hynix/Intel-Micron Flash/Toshiba. There's reason why Apple and Lenovo use Samsung PCIe AHCI/NVMe SSDs in their higher-end machines.

My parents have some Samsung appliances, they're going back to Whirlpool when that time comes around. No problems with their Sammy gas range and a dishwasher in a rental property though. A fridge and washer needed a service call. In Korea, Samsung also runs shopping malls, issues credit cards and was involved in aerospace with GE and Boeing as Samsung Techwin(they also armed the Korean military) - it's now Hanhwa Techwin.

Last edited by nthach; 02/11/19 01:27 PM.
Re: The History on Samsung - Techquickie [Re: nthach] #5008449
02/11/19 11:53 PM
02/11/19 11:53 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,853
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,853
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by nthach
I have better luck with Samsung when it comes to memory/SSDs and TVs. I think you can't beat Samsung when it comes to RAM, flash and LCDs/OLEDs. Samsung SSDs are all made in-house, unlike others which buy 3rd party controllers and NAND from SK Hynix/Intel-Micron Flash/Toshiba. There's reason why Apple and Lenovo use Samsung PCIe AHCI/NVMe SSDs in their higher-end machines.

I dunno. Apple has always been brand agnostic. And if the teardown reports are correct, they've been making a lot of their own SSD controllers. And aren't Apple SSDs non-standard using unique pinouts and different protocols? Some are even permanent parts of the main board.

Also - SK Hynix has been making their own complete NVMe SSDs.

[Linked Image]

I know a few people who work at their office in Silicon Valley where their controllers are designed. They bought a startup company for that expertise.

Quote
https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1261976#
Memory chipmaker SK Hynix Inc., has agreed to buy Link_A_Media Devices Corp. (Santa Clara, Calif.). The purchase price was not disclosed.

LAMD, founded in 2004, is a fabless chip company that develops SoCs for the data storage market. On completion of the acquisition LAMD will become a business unit of SK Hynix focused on customized NAND memory controller ICs.

NAND memory controllers are used in applications such as embedded multimedia cards and solid-state drives.

Re: The History on Samsung - Techquickie [Re: y_p_w] #5009063
02/12/19 04:28 PM
02/12/19 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,101
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,101
California
Originally Posted by y_p_w

I dunno. Apple has always been brand agnostic. And if the teardown reports are correct, they've been making a lot of their own SSD controllers. And aren't Apple SSDs non-standard using unique pinouts and different protocols? Some are even permanent parts of the main board.



For the rMBPs from 2012-2015, Apple used mSATA but physically incompatible with a OTS mSATA for a PC like what Lenovo made popular. That was on the 2012 to mid-2013 rMBPs. The late-2013 to 2015 rMBPs used PCIe AHCI SSDs but the drives are physically incompatible with M.2 slots keyed for PCIe SSDs. There are adapters to fit a OTS mSATA or M.2 PCIe SSD into a rMBP. And High Sierra/Mojave supports NVMe for the late-2013 and newer rMBPs.

The new touch bar/TouchID MacBooks are all soldered on, and pretty soon Lenovo and HP will jump on that. Microsoft is already using soldered-on SSDs on the Surface.
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+6+Teardown/113786

Re: The History on Samsung - Techquickie [Re: nthach] #5016749
02/19/19 06:09 PM
02/19/19 06:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,970
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,970
Silicon Valley
Originally Posted by nthach
I have better luck with Samsung when it comes to memory/SSDs and TVs. I think you can't beat Samsung when it comes to RAM, flash and LCDs/OLEDs. Samsung SSDs are all made in-house, unlike others which buy 3rd party controllers and NAND from SK Hynix/Intel-Micron Flash/Toshiba. There's reason why Apple and Lenovo use Samsung PCIe AHCI/NVMe SSDs in their higher-end machines.


Making their own controller or not really has nothing to do with the quality, it is more of how much R&D each company wants to spend and what they already make. Intel and Toshiba obviously don't make DRAM anymore and SK Hynix technically make all of them as well (but they are not anywhere close to the best in SSD). On the other hand WD Black is really great but they don't make DRAM at all.

BTW, every computer brand use at least 2 suppliers, and since Samsung has 30%+ market share, everyone has to buy Samsung as well.

Apple bought Anobit, a group founded by M-System veterans in Israel (after they left when SanDisk bought them). Apple wants to integrate the flash controller into their A processor and use it with the NAND they buy from various OEM. I'd not be surprised if their laptop will use this controller with custom file system instead of the standard NVMe command in the future.

Last edited by PandaBear; 02/19/19 06:15 PM.

"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: The History on Samsung - Techquickie [Re: PandaBear] #5017972
02/20/19 05:12 PM
02/20/19 05:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,101
California
nthach Offline
nthach  Offline

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,101
California
Originally Posted by PandaBear


Apple bought Anobit, a group founded by M-System veterans in Israel (after they left when SanDisk bought them). Apple wants to integrate the flash controller into their A processor and use it with the NAND they buy from various OEM. I'd not be surprised if their laptop will use this controller with custom file system instead of the standard NVMe command in the future.

I've heard of M-Systems, they were a early pioneer of solid-state storage for embedded systems beyond that used for BIOS.

Apple started using PCIe NVMe in the iPhone 7 to take advantage of parallelism with bigger NAND chips and the new MacBooks have their storage soldered on. I'm not shocked Apple wants to make their own controllers so they aren't dependent on Samsung, Marvell, or the Taiwanese(Phison and Silicon Motion).

Samsung decided to use UFS instead of eMMC to interface storage to their SoCs. And most Android phones use eMMC. I guess it makes adding external storage easier since they don't need to add a USB to SD card host?

Re: The History on Samsung - Techquickie [Re: nthach] #5018463
02/21/19 02:35 AM
02/21/19 02:35 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,853
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,853
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by nthach
I've heard of M-Systems, they were a early pioneer of solid-state storage for embedded systems beyond that used for BIOS.

I remember someone where I worked bought one of their early ones for $99. Might have been 8 MB. They had a specific industrial design that they didn't change for years. I remember after a couple of years SanDisk had basically caught up and was selling higher capacity for much less.

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