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Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: Vuflanovsky] #5007834
02/11/19 11:39 AM
02/11/19 11:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,975
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,975
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic.

Stats???? I forgot this is BITOG. What was I thinking? You would have to get a bunch of long haired housewives together, and have them time their shampoo rinses. And perhaps have your sewer drain checked with a camera, between single and double flush dumps? Not sure Consumer Reports would have that covered. coffee

Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: billt460] #5007840
02/11/19 11:42 AM
02/11/19 11:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,447
California
Vuflanovsky Offline
Vuflanovsky  Offline

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,447
California
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Rand
Not to the OP,

but on toilets just buy a better one. Some l flush much better than others..

if that 88$ eco sams club toilet aint working.. a nice kohler or american standard with good reviews gets it done in 1 flush.

Lowes was demoing one that they were flushing 300 paint ball sized balls in 1 flush

The problem isn't just the force of the flush itself. Home plumbing is designed to carry a load of human waste and paper from the bowl, to the main at the street with one flush. Many older homes have their plumbing designed around 7 gallon per flush toilets. Because that was all that was available back then.

Because of this, the newer 1.6 GPF toilets won't accomplish this. So what happens in many cases, is you end up having the line from your house to the main build up with waste. This can cause problems. It takes volume and flow, not force to move this solid waste once it gets into your sewer line. I've had plumbers tell me they have had calls increase as much as ten fold in older neighborhoods due to this. Newer subdivisions are plumbed with increased pitch drain angles to help compensate for this lack of volume.

I have had several plumbers tell me the same thing. And all of them suggest to flush solid waste twice, or even 3 times with 1.6 GPF toilets because of it. There is no way less will work when the design calls for more. The government tries to solve one problem, but creates others with unintended consequences. Nothing new there. They're famous for it.


If so, you'd have to ask how universal this idea is if, for example, someone like me lived in a 45 year old home that had low flow toilets in it for 20 years...when do I call the plumber?? Are we talking about 1920s row houses or something that's built since the 60s??

Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: billt460] #5007852
02/11/19 11:52 AM
02/11/19 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,447
California
Vuflanovsky Offline
Vuflanovsky  Offline

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,447
California
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic.

Stats???? I forgot this is BITOG. What was I thinking? You would have to get a bunch of long haired housewives together, and have them time their shampoo rinses. And perhaps have your sewer drain checked with a camera, between single and double flush dumps? Not sure Consumer Reports would have that covered. coffee


Well, you're the one noting hearsay about plumber calls being increased ten fold because of this issue and not me...I'm just detailing that I lived in a 70s era home that didn't have this problem with low flow toilets over a two decade span. I don't doubt this might be a problem somewhere and I'm not requesting any stats...I'm saying how prevalent is this in tract homes that were built in say the last 40 years?? That's the greater percentage of everything in my neighborhood and town and you make it sound like it's inevitable with a 1.6g toilet.

Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: LoneRanger] #5007866
02/11/19 12:10 PM
02/11/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,794
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,794
...
Increasing the slope of the drain pipe is not a solution either. What can happen if the angle is too much is that the water will flow faster than the solids thus leaving them behind and causing constriction.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: Vuflanovsky] #5007975
02/11/19 01:32 PM
02/11/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,975
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,975
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
That's the greater percentage of everything in my neighborhood and town and you make it sound like it's inevitable with a 1.6g toilet.

Not "inevitable". Just more likely to happen. And yes, it was hearsay. Coming from professional people who work in the trade, and see it on a day to day basis. And when several experienced people in a given profession all tell me the same thing, I place some value on it. Even if it didn't come with spreadsheets and reams of data, that turn the whole thing into a Moon shot.

Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: LoneRanger] #5008078
02/11/19 03:55 PM
02/11/19 03:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,510
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Online content OP
LoneRanger  Online Content OP

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,510
Midwest USA
Back on topic, my wife found this one that she wants.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Delta-L...out-in-Stainless-4153-SSSD-DST/203002558

runs normally at 1.5 but can push-button it into turbo mode for 2.0 gpm



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: LoneRanger] #5008151
02/11/19 05:11 PM
02/11/19 05:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,970
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,970
Silicon Valley
Regarding to toilet: you should buy the best you can, a good 1.6GPF toilet is better than the older 5 GPF (or whatever they call) ones, and I say this as a person who doesn't like low flow toilet, but am impressed by the really good ones.

Regarding to kitchen faucet and shower head: I think 2.5GPM is good, 1.6 seems to be bad, just personal opinion. I haven't run into a good faucet or shower that's 1.6 GPM or less, they are just horrible and makes you not want to use it. Maybe I should pay more for the German stuff, I dunno.

I don't think I'll ever go back to the high flow stuff from before 80s, they aren't that great no matter how you look at them.

You can always fix it with a drill on the restrictor like others said.

Last edited by PandaBear; 02/11/19 05:12 PM.

"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: billt460] #5008354
02/11/19 09:08 PM
02/11/19 09:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,958
New England
Jarlaxle Offline
Jarlaxle  Offline

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,958
New England
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Going to time filling a gallon container. Bet it takes around 1 - 2 minutes.

Most of the new restricted flow shower heads do not have enough force to get the soap out of your hair. This is especially true with women who have long hair. It was the first thing my wife complained about when I installed our new shower heads. She has long hair, and was in there forever trying to rinse the shampoo and conditioner out. I removed the head, and saw the restrictor washer.

It is larger in diameter than the internal threads that hold it in place. The drill pulled it right out. It was unbelievable how much more forceful the stream was after that. These nit wits haven't figured out all of this isn't saving a drop of water. People just flush more, and are forced to shower longer because of it. In the end the same volume of water ends up going down the drain. It just wastes more time to put it there.


The best showerhead I have ever used is a low-flow...it's a low volume/high pressure design, branded "Resource Conservation, Inc." It washed my wife's knee-length hair quite nicely.


1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, 15W-40 Super Tech, Delco
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 Super Tech, Super Tech
2011 Sportster 883, 20W-50 Mobil, HD black
Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: LoneRanger] #5008406
02/11/19 10:25 PM
02/11/19 10:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24,683
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 24,683
ON, Canada eh?
Found this...




Last edited by StevieC; 02/11/19 10:40 PM.

'18 Caravan - 30k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: Vuflanovsky] #5008484
02/12/19 02:05 AM
02/12/19 02:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,248
British Columbia, Canada
ecotourist Online content
ecotourist  Online Content

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,248
British Columbia, Canada
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic...that buying a different unit might correct versus drilling it out.

I've never had any issues with my American Standard and Kohler 1.6g toilets either loaded or unloaded and I've even seen a .9 gallon unit flush adequately if you're conscientious. Both of my 1.6s are better engineered than the 3 gallon units from 1979 they replaced and have been less temperamental.

Correct. A well designed 1.6 gallon toilet flushes just fine. We recently installed a Toto toilet and it's the best flusher I've seen. No need for compressed air or anything like that either. Just good design. Our shower drain enters the main drain line not too far after the toilet so I expect that will keep the line clean.


2000 BMW 528i 5MT
2007 Honda Accord EX-L 4Door V6 6MT
Re: Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots [Re: LoneRanger] #5009163
02/12/19 06:07 PM
02/12/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,958
New England
Jarlaxle Offline
Jarlaxle  Offline

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,958
New England
The Glacier Bay valveless is also quite effective.


1979 Coupe de Ville, 542 stroker, 15W-40 Super Tech, Delco
2011 Crown Vic P71, 5W-20 Super Tech, Super Tech
2011 Sportster 883, 20W-50 Mobil, HD black
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