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Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: y_p_w] #5008278 02/11/19 07:49 PM
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benjy Offline
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all vehicles made today are from "globally" sourced parts that are assembled wherever. many parts are likely bid on according to specs + quality of said part or assembly. overseas labor is CHEAPER so if they have the proper training + machines quality can be good or NOT. i read on the malibu forums as my girlfriend has a 13 LS + note hundreds of early wheel bearing failures, some before 50 thou + again because under warranty GM uses the same cheap "globally" sourced bearings for replacements, same cheap parts are used in upper models like the caddys, sad but i feel although technology evolves quality is worse as well as issues from newer technologies like stop-start

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: gfh77665] #5008279 02/11/19 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by littlehulkster

JD Power is absolute [censored], though. Besides the fact that they're basically an awards for hire business that will carefully tailor a specific category for their client to then "win", with great fanfare, their "reliability" reports have no weighting and are therefore fundamentally flawed.

JD Power would consider a loose piece of trim, squeaky brakes or infotainment bugs to be exactly the same as a car that literally exploded in your driveway. They do not differentiate between catastrophic, expensive failures and minor issues.



Got a reference for any of that?

JD Power is very well respected. Of course it cannot even begin to compare with Honda fan boys posting on the internet.


There are lots of articles about this sort of thing.

That was just from a cursory Google search, too.

Any company that is paid by the automakers and treats confusing infotainment UI as exactly the same as catastrophic failure is one that cannot be trusted. JD Power is an advertising company, and the product they sell is JD Power.

Originally Posted by benjy
all vehicles made today are from "globally" sourced parts that are assembled wherever. many parts are likely bid on according to specs + quality of said part or assembly. overseas labor is CHEAPER so if they have the proper training + machines quality can be good or NOT. i read on the malibu forums as my girlfriend has a 13 LS + note hundreds of early wheel bearing failures, some before 50 thou + again because under warranty GM uses the same cheap "globally" sourced bearings for replacements, same cheap parts are used in upper models like the caddys, sad but i feel although technology evolves quality is worse as well as issues from newer technologies like stop-start


Either you don't remember how awful old cars were, or you do, but only through rose tinted glasses. There are issues with modern cars, of course, but I'd take all of them any day over having to deal with utter garbage like carburetors, point ignition, awful, unsafe brakes, junk suspensions that wear out in 10k and wander all over the road and "crumple zones" comprised entirely of your face. That's not even to mention the modern comforts and conveniences on modern cars that either didn't exist or didn't work on old cars. There were some truly awful old cars, but even the best of them is worse than anything from the era of electronic fuel injection.

Last edited by littlehulkster; 02/11/19 07:56 PM.

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Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: y_p_w] #5008283 02/11/19 07:52 PM
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What I found most interesting is that Genesis is now a car Brand. It used car be only a model, or small family of models.

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: benjy] #5008318 02/11/19 08:32 PM
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y_p_w Offline OP
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Originally Posted by benjy
all vehicles made today are from "globally" sourced parts that are assembled wherever. many parts are likely bid on according to specs + quality of said part or assembly. overseas labor is CHEAPER so if they have the proper training + machines quality can be good or NOT. i read on the malibu forums as my girlfriend has a 13 LS + note hundreds of early wheel bearing failures, some before 50 thou + again because under warranty GM uses the same cheap "globally" sourced bearings for replacements, same cheap parts are used in upper models like the caddys, sad but i feel although technology evolves quality is worse as well as issues from newer technologies like stop-start

I have no issue with quality manufacturing irrespective of where it occurs. I certainly understand that a lot of misgivings about stuff made in Asia (outside of Japan/Korea/Taiwan) being of perceived low quality. I've seen the quality of goods made in China or India to a high standard when the key was quality control and high standards rather than the lowest possible cost or delivering quickly without making quality a high priority.

It's not that I really thought that Honda would be importing transmissions from their Indian operations that were substandard. However, it seemed to be somewhat of a fight against perception. There used to be a perception that Honda's cars/engines/transmissions made/assembled in the US or Canada couldn't be as high quality as the ones made in Japan.

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: y_p_w] #5008323 02/11/19 08:34 PM
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If you want to know of a poorly made transmission it's the GM A8 that is in many vehicles. The worst are 2015 and newer. There are tons of problems with these. Why all the Honda hate?


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Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: joekingcorvette] #5008490 02/12/19 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
If you want to know of a poorly made transmission it's the GM A8 that is in many vehicles. The worst are 2015 and newer. There are tons of problems with these. Why all the Honda hate?


Because the Honda transmissions are even worse? I never had a GM transmission fail (despite owning many more GMs than Hondas) but had 2 Hondas die on me. Not sure why you're bringing up GM in a Honda thread.


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Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: dishdude] #5008497 02/12/19 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
If you want to know of a poorly made transmission it's the GM A8 that is in many vehicles. The worst are 2015 and newer. There are tons of problems with these. Why all the Honda hate?


Because the Honda transmissions are even worse? I never had a GM transmission fail (despite owning many more GMs than Hondas) but had 2 Hondas die on me. Not sure why you're bringing up GM in a Honda thread.


Honda has had some issues with their transmissions in V6 cars many years ago, but those have all been long corrected, and the 4cyl cars have pretty much always been rock solid. The issue was mostly one of the V6 having more torque than the transmission could really handle, and even then if well treated they could run for a good long while.

If we're going entirely off anecdotes, both myself and my former roommate ran V6, automatic Accords from the problematic years well past 250k with no issues. Do my two anecdotes cancel yours out? If you want to look at numbers, CR hasn't had any major reports of automatic transmission issues in Hondas for a very long time, and Honda only recently fell from it's spot near the top of their rankings thanks to it's new turbocharged engines and their teething problems.


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Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: y_p_w] #5008504 02/12/19 04:21 AM
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I wouldn't worry about the gearbox being built in India. Some Harley Davidsons are built in India. My Honda motorcycle was built in Thailand. It's a global economy these days.


MY16 Mitsubishi Outlander 2.2 diesel, 63,000km - Gulf Western Euro Energy 5w30, Mitsubishi filter
2006 Ford Falcon 4.0, 148,000km - Valvoline Engine Armour 15w40, Ryco filter
Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: gfh77665] #5008571 02/12/19 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Its amazing how far Honda quality has dropped off during the last 10 years or so. Honda built themselves up a great reputation in the past , now they presume their nameplate alone is enough. Not so. Kia, Hyundai, Ford and Chevy top the last. Honda is near the BOTTOM!

https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2018-us-initial-quality-study-iqs


Jdpower is an initial quality indicator however really not a great predictor IMHO of what will happen out of warranty. I believe the max is 3 years and its terrible to visit dealer often with niggly issues even though no charge.

I am pretty sure my 2007 Acura MDX was average when it came out riddled with teething issues of first year. I picked it up in 2011 with 80k and now at 186k has been absolute pleasure to own. The prior owner had a ton of bringing to dealer on CarFax for warranty issues, campaigns etc.

Last edited by madRiver; 02/12/19 08:15 AM.
Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: littlehulkster] #5008839 02/12/19 01:08 PM
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y_p_w Offline OP
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Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
If you want to know of a poorly made transmission it's the GM A8 that is in many vehicles. The worst are 2015 and newer. There are tons of problems with these. Why all the Honda hate?


Because the Honda transmissions are even worse? I never had a GM transmission fail (despite owning many more GMs than Hondas) but had 2 Hondas die on me. Not sure why you're bringing up GM in a Honda thread.


Honda has had some issues with their transmissions in V6 cars many years ago, but those have all been long corrected, and the 4cyl cars have pretty much always been rock solid. The issue was mostly one of the V6 having more torque than the transmission could really handle, and even then if well treated they could run for a good long while.

Well - the 4-speed AT in my wife's 2002 Civic LX failed after 15+ years and 85k miles. I chalk it up to bad luck. The mechanic who replaced it with a rebuilt said that it was highly unusual. I guess that's why I don't necessarily listen to anecdotes since the loudest voices tend to be the ones who had a failure and insist that it's a sign that it must be a trend.

What I do recall was that the Honda V6s with VCM from around 2007 and the next few years tended to be sludge monsters. Not sure if they took care of that with a mechanical redesign or by specifying 0W-20.

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: y_p_w] #5009296 02/12/19 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by dishdude
Originally Posted by joekingcorvette
If you want to know of a poorly made transmission it's the GM A8 that is in many vehicles. The worst are 2015 and newer. There are tons of problems with these. Why all the Honda hate?


Because the Honda transmissions are even worse? I never had a GM transmission fail (despite owning many more GMs than Hondas) but had 2 Hondas die on me. Not sure why you're bringing up GM in a Honda thread.


Honda has had some issues with their transmissions in V6 cars many years ago, but those have all been long corrected, and the 4cyl cars have pretty much always been rock solid. The issue was mostly one of the V6 having more torque than the transmission could really handle, and even then if well treated they could run for a good long while.

Well - the 4-speed AT in my wife's 2002 Civic LX failed after 15+ years and 85k miles. I chalk it up to bad luck. The mechanic who replaced it with a rebuilt said that it was highly unusual. I guess that's why I don't necessarily listen to anecdotes since the loudest voices tend to be the ones who had a failure and insist that it's a sign that it must be a trend.

What I do recall was that the Honda V6s with VCM from around 2007 and the next few years tended to be sludge monsters. Not sure if they took care of that with a mechanical redesign or by specifying 0W-20.


FWIW I've always been of the mind that sludge issues were almost always caused by either running garbage oil, running it far too long between drains, or both. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a partial reason behind the 0W-20 spec is to make sure people are using synthetic oil instead of whatever junk they get at the dollar store.

From what I've seen, people who run synthetic and actually change it have no sludge problems in their Honda or Toyota "sludge monster" engines.


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Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: y_p_w] #5009297 02/12/19 08:23 PM
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My 2003 Civic Hybrid had a CVT in it. I purchased it at 65,000 km and found out after the buy that the transmission had been replaced at 60,000 km. I kept the car until 300,000 km and the engine did not use a drop of oil. However the CVT continued to have problems the entire time despite doing a drain and fill every year. After I sold the Hybrid I purchased a 2005 Civic with 20,000 km and have had it ever since with absolutely no issues.

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: littlehulkster] #5009459 02/13/19 12:17 AM
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y_p_w Offline OP
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Originally Posted by littlehulkster
FWIW I've always been of the mind that sludge issues were almost always caused by either running garbage oil, running it far too long between drains, or both. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that a partial reason behind the 0W-20 spec is to make sure people are using synthetic oil instead of whatever junk they get at the dollar store.

From what I've seen, people who run synthetic and actually change it have no sludge problems in their Honda or Toyota "sludge monster" engines.

I read on one forum someone claiming that only dealer servicing (they said they used Mobil conventional) with 5W-20 still resulted in slugging even with changes before the OLM went to 0. The basic question this guy was asking was if Mobil conventional was a "premium detergent oil" as described in the owners manual.

My parents still have a 2001 Camry that was mostly an experiment in my use of multiple brands of inexpensive 5W-30. I would check the mileage on them and change it for them maybe 4000-5000 mile intervals. No sludge, but that engine was notorious.

Still - I figure using 0W-20 to denote a "special" oil that's more durable is kind of a blunt tool. I figure there are 5W-20s (i.e. Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum) that are equally (or maybe more) durable, but the manufacturers often don't consider them any different for service requirements. I've seen a few fixed manufacturer OCIs that halve the OCI if 5W-20 is used instead of 0W-30. Also - aren't some oil life monitors adjustable for different oil types?

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: skyactiv] #5009462 02/13/19 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by skyactiv
I would not want a Type R as my only vehicle. Great car, but the Si is better to live with.
I started out my mechanic career at a Honda dealer. Si, not SI btw.

Few people are as cool as my wife and want something new with a stick in the USA.
The Type R is like the old Prelude 4WS. Honda knew few people actually wanted to pony up the money for one so Honda only made X many.
The dealers were only allotted 1 or 2 for the model year and most dealers got more then sticker.

I got curious about it so I've tried visiting a few dealers. Also - I haven' t been able to get a test drive of an Si. It's always been too busy or too hard to pull out whichever one they have. I wouldn't even mind a used one just to get how it feels, but most don't have one. I found a dealer today that had one. The manager took me to see it, but without an appointment I would have needed to wait a while since their sales people were there with actual sales paperwork.

I also managed to find a Type R with the doors unlocked and that I could actually sit in. It was a used 2018 with less than 3000 miles on it. A salesman said that if they had a new one in the showroom there's no way it would be unlocked. But I got to look under the hood and sit in the driver seat. It felt like I was wrapped in a cocoon. Not uncomfortable, but "cockpit" would describe how I felt.

And the markup is crazy. I saw a couple that were marked up $16k in the same showroom. I have a feeling they would probably be negotiated down, but it seems like a crazy market. The used one I saw I was told was asking for more than original sticker.

Re: Honda transmissions made in India? [Re: gfh77665] #5009661 02/13/19 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by littlehulkster

JD Power is absolute [censored], though. Besides the fact that they're basically an awards for hire business that will carefully tailor a specific category for their client to then "win", with great fanfare, their "reliability" reports have no weighting and are therefore fundamentally flawed.

JD Power would consider a loose piece of trim, squeaky brakes or infotainment bugs to be exactly the same as a car that literally exploded in your driveway. They do not differentiate between catastrophic, expensive failures and minor issues.



Got a reference for any of that?

JD Power is very well respected. Of course it cannot even begin to compare with Honda fan boys posting on the internet.



Not a fan boy, Ive been pretty harsh on Honda in the past. But we have bought two with zero issues. Oh wait, we did have a stripped torx roofrack bolt that got repaired under warranty. So I guess were contributing to the one problem per 100 cars metric too...

The chart posted lost me when not just Honda, but also Toytota was way below the average, and vehicles like RAM and Hyundai were much higher. Ive also been harsh on Toyota, but come on - Lexus is below Chevy and Ford?

I have my doubts with any of this based upon what weve seen of the industry for years. Champions can and will fall - got it, but far more on this list is dubious than Honda's placement.

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