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Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: DeepFriar] #4934556
11/25/18 07:34 AM
11/25/18 07:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
This latest wreck is yet another example of how women in racing will never amount to anything. Except for perhaps eye candy if their driving suits are tight enough. As most of you know I was / am one of the biggest critics of Danica, when she was around doing nothing, except wrecking top shelf equipment, on what seemed like a weekly basis. If I was unfair in my analysis, it's only because she most certainly was not alone. She has had plenty of company over the years, in the lack of female performance department. From herself in NASCAR, to Natalie Decker in ARCA, to the Camping World Truck Series. Where Jennifer Jo Cobb can be observed on an all but weekly basis getting in peoples way, and causing wrecks as she is constantly being lapped.

In open wheel it's been much the same. There has not been a single female who has shown ANY type of winning performance skills in F1. Either as a, "development driver", or otherwise. Susie Wolff, María de Villota, Carmen Jordá, Simona de Silvestro, Milka Duno, all went nowhere. de Villota ended up dying a year after suffering head injuries in a low speed crash in the pits after screwing around on a wet track. Wolff would have never set foot in a F1 car, if it were not for her husbands vast wealth, along with his advanced position in the sport. This is never going to change. You will NEVER, repeat NEVER, see a woman driver with the skill level of a Vettel, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Alonso, or any other male driver for that matter.

In 1992 Giovanna Amati, (who again never would have set foot in a F1 car if not for her families wealth and position), made three unsuccessful Grand Prix qualification attempts. Nothing has changed in those last 26 years, except for the fact today's women drivers are afforded much better equipment they can't do anything with..... Except wreck it as was again proven in this latest Macau fiasco. This time they were extremely lucky she didn't kill herself, along with anyone else. That wreck could have easily taken out several of those track Marshalls.

Through the years women race drivers have become perfect examples of the, "Peter Principal". They have all risen to the level of their own incompetence. And they have been placed there, (or pushed depending on how you look at it), by politically correct individuals, along with a society who seem to think they have no place at the track as grid girls, but rather need to be advanced into the cockpit. Where I'm sure they will remain until these racing teams decide to stop wasting money on them. Or else there is some type of horrible disaster that happens directly due to their lack of skill, and constant never ending mistakes.


Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: billt460] #4935037
11/25/18 06:46 PM
11/25/18 06:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Austin Texas
Mitch Alsup Offline
Mitch Alsup  Offline

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 739
Austin Texas
Originally Posted by billt460
You will NEVER, repeat NEVER, see a woman driver with the skill level of a Vettel, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Alonso,


Never is a long time.

Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: Smoky14] #4936023
11/26/18 05:54 PM
11/26/18 05:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,138
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,138
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted by Smoky14
As you can see Garak is a big fan of Formula E....I have the same opinion.

I think it's got potential. It's just a long, long ways away. Heck, I'm not even sure what the manufacturers are thinking upon entry. Are they humouring people or do they legitimately agree it has a future?

Originally Posted by billt460
In 1992 Giovanna Amati, (who again never would have set foot in a F1 car if not for her families wealth and position)....

That can be said about 90% of the people on the Formula 1 grid, let alone those in any of the feeder series. Vettel and Hamilton wouldn't be where they are without their dads working like dogs and then the kids being noticed by deep pocket organizations. Max is there primarily because of his dad. Of course, those three are talented and deserve to be there. The system works; it's just messy as heck and leaves a bad odour. Beyond the top guys, there are plenty of guys on the grid or who used to be there who we could argue wouldn't even have a chance without the money behind them, and aren't necessarily the best, but good enough (after all, they got Super Licenses), such as Marcus, Lance, Pastor. Lots of even the big names bring in personal sponsorship, including Alonso.

Of course, if someone can't qualify in the first place, or is way off the pace, that's a problem. Jorda was, and almost no one will argue against that point, including other women drivers, hired for her looks. She is far from popular with other women drivers and regularly gets skewered by them in the press if her name comes up.

We may never see a woman driver with the skill level of Seb, Lewis, Kimi, or Fernando. You may be correct. However, they have enough difficulty finding men who can compete on an equal footing. Guys like these, their worst enemies are themselves - motivation under peculiar circumstances and mentality and age and bad choices.

Carmen Jorda is really aggravating to me, far beyond anything Patrick did. At least Patrick could keep up. Jorda is not even close. She's put women drivers back by twenty years all on her own. Those who have the backing but minimal talent should go to the Ring or Spa for the 24 hour races and buy a seat in GT Am.


Plain, simple Garak.

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Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: billt460] #5002823
02/06/19 10:20 AM
02/06/19 10:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,126
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,126
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by billt460
This latest wreck is yet another example of how women in racing will never amount to anything. Except for perhaps eye candy if their driving suits are tight enough. As most of you know I was / am one of the biggest critics of Danica, when she was around doing nothing, except wrecking top shelf equipment, on what seemed like a weekly basis. If I was unfair in my analysis, it's only because she most certainly was not alone. She has had plenty of company over the years, in the lack of female performance department. From herself in NASCAR, to Natalie Decker in ARCA, to the Camping World Truck Series. Where Jennifer Jo Cobb can be observed on an all but weekly basis getting in peoples way, and causing wrecks as she is constantly being lapped.

In open wheel it's been much the same. There has not been a single female who has shown ANY type of winning performance skills in F1. Either as a, "development driver", or otherwise. Susie Wolff, María de Villota, Carmen Jordá, Simona de Silvestro, Milka Duno, all went nowhere. de Villota ended up dying a year after suffering head injuries in a low speed crash in the pits after screwing around on a wet track. Wolff would have never set foot in a F1 car, if it were not for her husbands vast wealth, along with his advanced position in the sport. This is never going to change. You will NEVER, repeat NEVER, see a woman driver with the skill level of a Vettel, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Alonso, or any other male driver for that matter.

In 1992 Giovanna Amati, (who again never would have set foot in a F1 car if not for her families wealth and position), made three unsuccessful Grand Prix qualification attempts. Nothing has changed in those last 26 years, except for the fact today's women drivers are afforded much better equipment they can't do anything with..... Except wreck it as was again proven in this latest Macau fiasco. This time they were extremely lucky she didn't kill herself, along with anyone else. That wreck could have easily taken out several of those track Marshalls.

Through the years women race drivers have become perfect examples of the, "Peter Principal". They have all risen to the level of their own incompetence. And they have been placed there, (or pushed depending on how you look at it), by politically correct individuals, along with a society who seem to think they have no place at the track as grid girls, but rather need to be advanced into the cockpit. Where I'm sure they will remain until these racing teams decide to stop wasting money on them. Or else there is some type of horrible disaster that happens directly due to their lack of skill, and constant never ending mistakes.



Says the guy who has never heard of Sabin Schmitz. Coffee2


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5003623
02/07/19 04:25 AM
02/07/19 04:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,798
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,798
'Stralia
Makes one wonder if there are any actual women in Billt's life...and if there are...why ???


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: DeepFriar] #5004513
02/08/19 04:22 AM
02/08/19 04:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 852
UK
weasley Offline
weasley  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 852
UK
Michèle Mouton - World Rally Championship driver for 12 years. Runner up in the championship in 1982, beating Hanu Mikkola, Stig Blomqvist, Per Eklund, Ari Vatenen, Pentti Arikkala and 68 other men. Won the Pikes Peak hill climb in 1985, taking 13 seconds off of Al Unser Jr's record whilst doing it.

Yes, it is one example amongst an overwhelming history of male talent. But let's not forget that in men there is a very low success rate - most male drivers don't get to F1 or any other international championship. For every Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen there are hundreds of wannabe men who weren't good enough.

And finally, with the deeply entrenched male chauvanism, egotism and downright sexism presented perfectly above, is it any wonder that women can't succeed?


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Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: weasley] #5004574
02/08/19 07:14 AM
02/08/19 07:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by weasley
And finally, with the deeply entrenched male chauvanism, egotism and downright sexism presented perfectly above, is it any wonder that women can't succeed?

Spare me. "Male chauvinism" isn't keeping them out of the drivers seat, let alone the winners circle. Lack of talent is. If Penske, Ganassi, or ANY of the TOP teams in Indy Car or NASCAR thought for a second they could put a female in one of their cars that would result in a winning performance, they would be there. They can't because there are none.

And there never have been, or will be. If there were you would have seen it by now. Danica was pushed harder, and given more opportunity than any other female driver ever. Because there were several people, (Bobby Rahal among them), who actually believed she was the real deal, and had winning talent. She wasn't and didn't. Not from the very beginning of her career in 2000 in the British Formula Ford Series. Not through the Barber Dodge Pro Series in 2002. Not through the Toyota Atlantic Series in 2003 and 2004. And certainly not in Indy Car or NASCAR.

She managed only one win in her entire career that spanned almost 20 years. All with good teams that provided her with excellent equipment all along. She simply couldn't do anything with it but wreck it. And as was mentioned many times, that one and only win happened because everyone in front of her ran out of gas. It's not as if she out drove anyone. The only reason Danica lasted as long as she did, was because of the fact she WAS a woman. Not because she could drive. Let alone drive with enough talent to win.

And remember, she's the "best" that has come along thus far. All of these feeder series she has competed in, have produced all of the World Champion driving talent you see today. As well as all of the talent from years past. None of them were, are, or ever will be women. You can carry on, whine and blame, "chauvinism", "sexism", "egotism", along with everything else you can think of. It doesn't matter because it's all B.S. They aren't there because they lack the talent to be there, period. And in the mean time all of your silly, politically correct, progressive hogwash changes nothing.

Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: DeepFriar] #5004628
02/08/19 08:43 AM
02/08/19 08:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 852
UK
weasley Offline
weasley  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 852
UK
And there it is. When you are part of the problem, you can't see the problem.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
2011 KTM 990 SMT
Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: weasley] #5004638
02/08/19 08:59 AM
02/08/19 08:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by weasley
And there it is. When you are part of the problem, you can't see the problem.

You want to, "see the problem". Here it is.

Full list of female Indy Car drivers to date:

Janet Guthrie
Desire Wilson
Amber Furst
Lyn St. James
Sarah Fisher
Danica Patrick
Milka Duno
Simona De Silvestro
Ana Beatriz Figuereido
Pippa Mann
Katherine Legge

That's 11 women drivers over the last 42 years. With a combined total of 47 starts. None of which has ever won, or ever placed higher than 3rd, (Danica).

Full list of female NASCAR drivers to date:

Christine Beckers
Ann Bunselmeyer
Ann Chester
Sara Christian
Janet Guthrie
Arlene Hiss
Laura Lane
Marta Leonard
Lella Lombardi
Robin McCall
Ethel Mobley
Patty Moise
Marian Pagan
Goldie Parsons
Danica Patrick
Shawna Robinson
FiFi Scott
Dorothy Shull
Ann Slaasted

That's 19 women drivers over the same 42 year time span. All with a combined total of 269 starts. None of which has ever won, or ever placed higher than 5th, (Danica).

Now, educate me as to what you think is going to change over the next 42 years? Other than having more politically correct boys like yourself, making better excuses for them by blaming men, society, "chauvinism", along with everything and everyone else you can think of, for their total lack of possessing any winning driving skill or talent.

Affirmative Action in racing doesn't produce any better results than it does in any other field of endeavor.

Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: DeepFriar] #5007669
02/11/19 08:48 AM
02/11/19 08:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 852
UK
weasley Offline
weasley  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 852
UK
And how many men are there with the same (or worse) stats than above? What you have is a list of people who failed to set the world alight. There are countless hundreds - thousands - more who have also failed to deliver, but with a Y chromosome.


2017 SEAT Leon 1.4 EcoTSI 150 FR Technology DSG
2018 Volvo XC60 D4
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Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: weasley] #5007996
02/11/19 02:06 PM
02/11/19 02:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by weasley
And how many men are there with the same (or worse) stats than above? What you have is a list of people who failed to set the world alight. There are countless hundreds - thousands - more who have also failed to deliver, but with a Y chromosome.

Attempting to posture, and or defend this 42 year old powder puff, demolition derby changes nothing. Society and politics, coupled with political correctness and a progressive thinking social agenda, along with a bumper crop of neutered, sympathetic boys masquerading as, "sensitive modern men", has resulted in successfully placing / pushing / positioning women into places they've never been before.

From the Supreme Court, into board rooms across America. Into squad cars in high crime areas, into combat zones, on to the tailboard of fire engines, or into the left seat of airliners. Even into the front seat of an F-14 Tomcat. (We all saw first hand just how well that worked out). But they will never push them to the front of a pack of dozens of 200+ MPH race cars. All being driven to the ragged edge by men. All of which who are far more talented at it than they are. Not to mention physically stronger, more mentally aggressive, and more enduring. It will never happen in the upper echelon of motor racing like Formula 1, Indy Car, or NASCAR.

You have seen the direct results of over 4 decades of non stop pushing and trying. With a multitude of different women. All of which have managed to accomplish nothing but wrecking and losing. Week in and week out. Year in and year out. Nothing will change in the next 42 years. Or in the 42 years after that. Simply because you cannot change human physiology.

It's why you have ball girls wearing makeup, sitting in foul territory in tight short pants in Major League Baseball. And not standing on the mound as starting pitchers, picking the corners at 95 MPH. Even Jennie Finch, the hottest female pitcher who ever lived, would not have lasted a single inning as a pitcher in a MLB game. Because the starting lineup of ANY team in Major League Baseball, would have pounded the ball down her throat on their worst day, against her best.

The same with professional tennis, golf, and basketball. These professional sports were all smart enough to start and REMAIN gender segregated. Because they all knew just how disastrous the results would have been if they didn't. Even both Summer and Winter Olympic sports separate gender for the exact same reasons. It would be idiotic to combine them, and expect any type of positive female result.

Motor racing wasn't so smart. They still haven't learned their lesson. Even though they keep getting the same results every time they try. Regardless of who they try it with. They prove the definition of insanity every weekend. They keep doing the same thing over and over. All the while trying and hoping to achieve a different result that never happens, or ever will. Just as the last 4+ decades have proven.

I only hope that some innocent driver(s) or spectator(s) don't end up getting killed until they learn. Like what almost happened in Macau. And any or all of this has nothing to do with, "chauvinism". It's called reality. Everything else is nothing but a bunch of sugar coated, progressive B.S.

Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: DeepFriar] #5008018
02/11/19 02:41 PM
02/11/19 02:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 540
New England
555 Offline
555  Offline

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 540
New England
Always wanted to go to Macau. Such an out-of-the-way place considering the rest of the schedule.


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Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: billt460] #5008582
02/12/19 08:33 AM
02/12/19 08:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,126
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,126
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by weasley
And finally, with the deeply entrenched male chauvanism, egotism and downright sexism presented perfectly above, is it any wonder that women can't succeed?

Spare me. "Male chauvinism" isn't keeping them out of the drivers seat, let alone the winners circle. Lack of talent is. If Penske, Ganassi, or ANY of the TOP teams in Indy Car or NASCAR thought for a second they could put a female in one of their cars that would result in a winning performance, they would be there. They can't because there are none.

And there never have been, or will be. If there were you would have seen it by now. Danica was pushed harder, and given more opportunity than any other female driver ever. Because there were several people, (Bobby Rahal among them), who actually believed she was the real deal, and had winning talent. She wasn't and didn't. Not from the very beginning of her career in 2000 in the British Formula Ford Series. Not through the Barber Dodge Pro Series in 2002. Not through the Toyota Atlantic Series in 2003 and 2004. And certainly not in Indy Car or NASCAR.

She managed only one win in her entire career that spanned almost 20 years. All with good teams that provided her with excellent equipment all along. She simply couldn't do anything with it but wreck it. And as was mentioned many times, that one and only win happened because everyone in front of her ran out of gas. It's not as if she out drove anyone. The only reason Danica lasted as long as she did, was because of the fact she WAS a woman. Not because she could drive. Let alone drive with enough talent to win.

And remember, she's the "best" that has come along thus far. All of these feeder series she has competed in, have produced all of the World Champion driving talent you see today. As well as all of the talent from years past. None of them were, are, or ever will be women. You can carry on, whine and blame, "chauvinism", "sexism", "egotism", along with everything else you can think of. It doesn't matter because it's all B.S. They aren't there because they lack the talent to be there, period. And in the mean time all of your silly, politically correct, progressive hogwash changes nothing.


Bill Auberlen only has 2 wins in a 20+ yr career. There are plenty of drivers who don't have a ton of wins. The races you watch contain the top .05 percent drivers in the world so there are thousands of male drivers who didn't cut it. You might have a point in that women drivers are kept on the team longer than a male driver and there are plenty of male drivers who consistently came in last behind female drivers.

Your argument is weak sauce. End of story.

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 02/12/19 08:37 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5008792
02/12/19 12:24 PM
02/12/19 12:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Online content
billt460  Online Content

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,988
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Bill Auberlen only has 2 wins in a 20+ yr career. There are plenty of drivers who don't have a ton of wins.......End of story.

There is no "story". Because you're trying to sell a fairy tale. Everything you are trying to push has already been run through the cow, and has come out the back end. First off, who's talking about, "a ton of wins"? I'm talking about ANY in over 4 DECADES.

In all men's and women's professional sports you will always have a high level of washouts at the top. If it were easy everyone would be a champion. How many professional women tennis players wash out before they ever make it to Wimbledon? It's most likely 99% or higher. In the LPGA it's higher than that, because there are more of them. How many women pro golfers rise to the level of play of Michelle Wie or Annika Sörenstam? Who happens to be one of the best women pro golfers of all time. And guess what happened to her when she tried to compete against men in the PGA? She was slaughtered and went back to the LPGA like a whipped dog. Yet another failed progressive social experiment gone embarrassingly wrong.

Your "argument" is a joke, because you have none. There is nothing to argue about. Because the degree of difficulty is equal for both sexes when they play against the same. It doesn't change the fact when you combine them, the women will ALWAYS come out at the bottom. Auto racing has proven that over the last 4 decades. And will continue to do so for the next 4. Assuming they are dumb enough to let this stupid, idiotic experiment continue.

What do you think Lindsay Vonn's or Mikaela Shiffrin's win record in Alpine Skiing would look like today, if they had to compete against men throughout their entire career? They would not have won a single race.... Just like Danica in NASCAR. And none of your posturing, nonsense, no name examples, and politically correct B.S. can or will deflect that fact.

I'll ask the same question again the both of you have been dancing around. What is going to change in the next 42 years regarding WOMEN in auto racing? You dodge it because you already know the answer, the same as I do. Because it's already been proven.

Re: Formula 4 Macau Crash [Re: DeepFriar] #5009423
02/12/19 10:58 PM
02/12/19 10:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,188
WA
Brigadier Offline
Brigadier  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,188
WA
The only way a woman would win a race in a major league series is if Lewis Hamilton became Liz Hamilton like Bruce Jenner became Caitlyn......


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