Edumacate me on these new-fangled low flow kitchen spigots

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Originally Posted by billt460
I have replaced all of my kitchen and bathroom faucets, as well as my shower heads in both bathrooms at one time or another. Some more than once. I have yet to come across one that didn't have a flow restrictor in them. All of them were as the posted photo above shows. 30 seconds with a 1/4" drill, and they come right out. Usually I've found when the drill breaks through, it grabs and yanks the whole washer completely out.

That said, they could very well have models now that regulate the flow in a way that is much more difficult, if not impossible to modify. This is just more government being shoved down our throats in the products we buy. Just like toilets. You can't find one that uses more than 1.6 gallons per flush. Because the government won't allow it. So now you have to flush twice or three times to accomplish what one flush did in the past. Or else risk clogging the bowl. Big "improvement".

I modified my 1.6gpf toilet. I took the Styrofoam glued to the inside of the tank out so there is more volume of water and I extended the overflow tube pipe up a few inches and modified the float so that I can fill the tank higher.

1 Flush and it's no problem whereas 2-3 flushes were required in the past.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Not sure why a drill is needed. I just unscrew the nozzle cap and remove the restrictor parts.

They are pressed into the shower heads at the threaded attachment points. There is nothing to unscrew to get at them.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
I modified my 1.6gpf toilet. I took the Styrofoam glued to the inside of the tank out so there is more volume of water and I extended the overflow tube pipe up a few inches and modified the float so that I can fill the tank higher. 1 Flush and it's no problem whereas 2-3 flushes were required in the past.

My new toilets, (both were replaced last year when I remodeled both bathrooms), have no inserts to remove. Both tanks are greatly reduced in size. I have a dual flush one piece tank and bowl in one bath, and a 2 piece in the other. Both tanks are much shorter from the water line to the top of the tank, so you can't increase the depth of the fill by much, if at all. They basically force you to live with 1.6 GPF.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by StevieC
I modified my 1.6gpf toilet. I took the Styrofoam glued to the inside of the tank out so there is more volume of water and I extended the overflow tube pipe up a few inches and modified the float so that I can fill the tank higher. 1 Flush and it's no problem whereas 2-3 flushes were required in the past.

My new toilets, (both were replaced last year when I remodeled both bathrooms), have no inserts to remove. Both tanks are greatly reduced in size. I have a dual flush one piece tank and bowl in one bath, and a 2 piece in the other. Both tanks are much shorter from the water line to the top of the tank, so you can't increase the depth of the fill by much, if at all. They basically force you to live with 1.6 GPF.

I was lucky with mine. My next toilet will be a power flush unit that uses the compressed air bladder.
(As always close the lid when you flush, but especially on these units as the plume travels far. My previous disinfection background showed me a world no one wants to know about.
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Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Going to time filling a gallon container. Bet it takes around 1 - 2 minutes.

Most of the new restricted flow shower heads do not have enough force to get the soap out of your hair. This is especially true with women who have long hair. It was the first thing my wife complained about when I installed our new shower heads. She has long hair, and was in there forever trying to rinse the shampoo and conditioner out. I removed the head, and saw the restrictor washer.

It is larger in diameter than the internal threads that hold it in place. The drill pulled it right out. It was unbelievable how much more forceful the stream was after that. These nit wits haven't figured out all of this isn't saving a drop of water. People just flush more, and are forced to shower longer because of it. In the end the same volume of water ends up going down the drain. It just wastes more time to put it there.
 
Not to the OP,

but on toilets just buy a better one. Some l flush much better than others..

if that 88$ eco sams club toilet aint working.. a nice kohler or american standard with good reviews gets it done in 1 flush.

Lowes was demoing one that they were flushing 300 paint ball sized balls in 1 flush
 
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It depends on the design of the flushing action. A 1.6 will flush well if designed right. The older cheap Mexican toilets used the same old design and that caused them to be weak. I have a couple in my home. Someday I'll upgrade.

The big names like American Standard, Kohler etc are the newer designs with upper and lower flush.

Also, look for toilets that have the option of small flush for liquids.
 
Originally Posted by Rand
Not to the OP,

but on toilets just buy a better one. Some l flush much better than others..

if that 88$ eco sams club toilet aint working.. a nice kohler or american standard with good reviews gets it done in 1 flush.

Lowes was demoing one that they were flushing 300 paint ball sized balls in 1 flush

The problem isn't just the force of the flush itself. Home plumbing is designed to carry a load of human waste and paper from the bowl, to the main at the street with one flush. Many older homes have their plumbing designed around 7 gallon per flush toilets. Because that was all that was available back then.

Because of this, the newer 1.6 GPF toilets won't accomplish this. So what happens in many cases, is you end up having the line from your house to the main build up with waste. This can cause problems. It takes volume and flow, not force to move this solid waste once it gets into your sewer line. I've had plumbers tell me they have had calls increase as much as ten fold in older neighborhoods due to this. Newer subdivisions are plumbed with increased pitch drain angles to help compensate for this lack of volume.

I have had several plumbers tell me the same thing. And all of them suggest to flush solid waste twice, or even 3 times with 1.6 GPF toilets because of it. There is no way less will work when the design calls for more. The government tries to solve one problem, but creates others with unintended consequences. Nothing new there. They're famous for it.
 
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic...that buying a different unit might correct versus drilling it out.

I've never had any issues with my American Standard and Kohler 1.6g toilets either loaded or unloaded and I've even seen a .9 gallon unit flush adequately if you're conscientious. Both of my 1.6s are better engineered than the 3 gallon units from 1979 they replaced and have been less temperamental.

The stock shower head in my place was basically a builder unit that I replaced with a handheld Waterpik head that had both better flow and better force adjustability with the settings. Problem solved for cheap with a versatility that didn't exist in the original unit.
 
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic.

Stats???? I forgot this is BITOG. What was I thinking? You would have to get a bunch of long haired housewives together, and have them time their shampoo rinses. And perhaps have your sewer drain checked with a camera, between single and double flush dumps? Not sure Consumer Reports would have that covered.
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Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Rand
Not to the OP,

but on toilets just buy a better one. Some l flush much better than others..

if that 88$ eco sams club toilet aint working.. a nice kohler or american standard with good reviews gets it done in 1 flush.

Lowes was demoing one that they were flushing 300 paint ball sized balls in 1 flush

The problem isn't just the force of the flush itself. Home plumbing is designed to carry a load of human waste and paper from the bowl, to the main at the street with one flush. Many older homes have their plumbing designed around 7 gallon per flush toilets. Because that was all that was available back then.

Because of this, the newer 1.6 GPF toilets won't accomplish this. So what happens in many cases, is you end up having the line from your house to the main build up with waste. This can cause problems. It takes volume and flow, not force to move this solid waste once it gets into your sewer line. I've had plumbers tell me they have had calls increase as much as ten fold in older neighborhoods due to this. Newer subdivisions are plumbed with increased pitch drain angles to help compensate for this lack of volume.

I have had several plumbers tell me the same thing. And all of them suggest to flush solid waste twice, or even 3 times with 1.6 GPF toilets because of it. There is no way less will work when the design calls for more. The government tries to solve one problem, but creates others with unintended consequences. Nothing new there. They're famous for it.


If so, you'd have to ask how universal this idea is if, for example, someone like me lived in a 45 year old home that had low flow toilets in it for 20 years...when do I call the plumber?? Are we talking about 1920s row houses or something that's built since the 60s??
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic.

Stats???? I forgot this is BITOG. What was I thinking? You would have to get a bunch of long haired housewives together, and have them time their shampoo rinses. And perhaps have your sewer drain checked with a camera, between single and double flush dumps? Not sure Consumer Reports would have that covered.
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Well, you're the one noting hearsay about plumber calls being increased ten fold because of this issue and not me...I'm just detailing that I lived in a 70s era home that didn't have this problem with low flow toilets over a two decade span. I don't doubt this might be a problem somewhere and I'm not requesting any stats...I'm saying how prevalent is this in tract homes that were built in say the last 40 years?? That's the greater percentage of everything in my neighborhood and town and you make it sound like it's inevitable with a 1.6g toilet.
 
Increasing the slope of the drain pipe is not a solution either. What can happen if the angle is too much is that the water will flow faster than the solids thus leaving them behind and causing constriction.
 
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
That's the greater percentage of everything in my neighborhood and town and you make it sound like it's inevitable with a 1.6g toilet.

Not "inevitable". Just more likely to happen. And yes, it was hearsay. Coming from professional people who work in the trade, and see it on a day to day basis. And when several experienced people in a given profession all tell me the same thing, I place some value on it. Even if it didn't come with spreadsheets and reams of data, that turn the whole thing into a Moon shot.
 
Regarding to toilet: you should buy the best you can, a good 1.6GPF toilet is better than the older 5 GPF (or whatever they call) ones, and I say this as a person who doesn't like low flow toilet, but am impressed by the really good ones.

Regarding to kitchen faucet and shower head: I think 2.5GPM is good, 1.6 seems to be bad, just personal opinion. I haven't run into a good faucet or shower that's 1.6 GPM or less, they are just horrible and makes you not want to use it. Maybe I should pay more for the German stuff, I dunno.

I don't think I'll ever go back to the high flow stuff from before 80s, they aren't that great no matter how you look at them.

You can always fix it with a drill on the restrictor like others said.
 
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Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Going to time filling a gallon container. Bet it takes around 1 - 2 minutes.

Most of the new restricted flow shower heads do not have enough force to get the soap out of your hair. This is especially true with women who have long hair. It was the first thing my wife complained about when I installed our new shower heads. She has long hair, and was in there forever trying to rinse the shampoo and conditioner out. I removed the head, and saw the restrictor washer.

It is larger in diameter than the internal threads that hold it in place. The drill pulled it right out. It was unbelievable how much more forceful the stream was after that. These nit wits haven't figured out all of this isn't saving a drop of water. People just flush more, and are forced to shower longer because of it. In the end the same volume of water ends up going down the drain. It just wastes more time to put it there.


The best showerhead I have ever used is a low-flow...it's a low volume/high pressure design, branded "Resource Conservation, Inc." It washed my wife's knee-length hair quite nicely.
 
Originally Posted by Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd be interested in seeing stats of having the need to flush twice or inadequate flow on a shower head that is built-in and endemic...that buying a different unit might correct versus drilling it out.

I've never had any issues with my American Standard and Kohler 1.6g toilets either loaded or unloaded and I've even seen a .9 gallon unit flush adequately if you're conscientious. Both of my 1.6s are better engineered than the 3 gallon units from 1979 they replaced and have been less temperamental.

Correct. A well designed 1.6 gallon toilet flushes just fine. We recently installed a Toto toilet and it's the best flusher I've seen. No need for compressed air or anything like that either. Just good design. Our shower drain enters the main drain line not too far after the toilet so I expect that will keep the line clean.
 
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