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Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? #4819777
07/21/18 02:24 PM
07/21/18 02:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
SubaJew Offline OP
SubaJew  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
So my Detroit DD15 came factory filled with an FA-4 spec oil, but nobody seems to know (or want to disclose) what brand or viscosity. I suspect it's a 5 or 10W-30 since the whole point of FA-4 was to coax fuel economy from a thinner oil with a much higher shear temperature. Unfortunately, any FA-4 oil seems to still be unobtanium on the retail market. I can purchase Rotella T5 Ultra 10W-30 FA-4 in 55 gallon drums @ $26/gal, but that price makes it economically unfeasible (the DD15 takes 45 qts per oil change). The added cost of FA-4 vs the same CK-4 spec Rotella (@ $14.50/gal) will never be recovered in the (theoretical) fuel savings, so I'm sticking to CK-4 for now until it becomes more readily available and the price drops. My question to the community is what, if any experience have you had with any FA-4 spec oil? Brands, viscosity, price and fuel economy?


2005 SUBARU Forester XT 4EAT - COBB Stage 1
Rotella T6 0W-40 CJ-4/SN - WIX 51365

2018 WESTERN STAR 5700 - Detroit DD15 - Eaton Fuller Super 13
Rotella T5 10W-30 CK-4 - Donaldson P551005
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #4819828
07/21/18 03:37 PM
07/21/18 03:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,057
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,057
Canyon County Idaho
Dealer?


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #4819855
07/21/18 04:07 PM
07/21/18 04:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,579
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,579
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Have you spoken right to an oil company distributor, or was the drum from a reseller? FA-4 products are available at our NAPA locations, and after exchange, priced about as well per gallon as what you were quoted for a drum!


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #4819931
07/21/18 05:42 PM
07/21/18 05:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
SubaJew Offline OP
SubaJew  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
The dealer didn't know what FA-4 was. Looked at me like I just landed from Mars. Needless to say, I'm not letting them touch my truck. Ever.

As for the distributor, yes, that drum price was for delivery from a distributor in OH to my shop in FL. The cost of FA-4 oil is almost double the cost of CK-4, which, even with a 60k mile interval, is financially unfeasible.

Last edited by SubaJew; 07/21/18 05:48 PM. Reason: grammar

2005 SUBARU Forester XT 4EAT - COBB Stage 1
Rotella T6 0W-40 CJ-4/SN - WIX 51365

2018 WESTERN STAR 5700 - Detroit DD15 - Eaton Fuller Super 13
Rotella T5 10W-30 CK-4 - Donaldson P551005
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #4820979
07/23/18 04:27 AM
07/23/18 04:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,396
Central Iowa
TiredTrucker Offline
TiredTrucker  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,396
Central Iowa
Check the Detroit Lube Manual. You can use CK-4. I can understand how the dealer wouldn't know about FA-4. They deal with so much variances in equipment and they stock only what fleets tend to want. I have class 8 trucks also. The driver alone accounts for 33% of increase or decrease in mpg per many formal studies, more than anything one could glean by using FA-4 over CK-4. Just use the 10w30 CK-4 and enjoy.


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #5006532
02/10/19 08:19 AM
02/10/19 08:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
SubaJew Offline OP
SubaJew  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
UPDATE: Walmart now carries Rotella T5 Ultra 10W-30 FA-4 @ $23/gal. I picked up a gallon and sent a virgin sample out to Blackstone. I'll be posting the results in a new VOA thread once received. The price of CK-4 has gone up a bit, reducing the cost spread between CK-4 & FA-4. I recently did a PM with CK-4, so I won't be running the FA-4 until later this year, which means UOA results won't be seen until early next year (I run 50k-60k OCIs). To be continued...


2005 SUBARU Forester XT 4EAT - COBB Stage 1
Rotella T6 0W-40 CJ-4/SN - WIX 51365

2018 WESTERN STAR 5700 - Detroit DD15 - Eaton Fuller Super 13
Rotella T5 10W-30 CK-4 - Donaldson P551005
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #5006546
02/10/19 08:35 AM
02/10/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,240
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,240
Midwest, Illinois
Originally Posted by SubaJew
The price of CK-4 has gone up a bit, reducing the cost spread between CK-4 & FA-4.


What?
CK-4 in most places has dropped, at least in my neck of the woods.
WM SuperTech is back to below 10.00 a gallon, Delvac has been around 11.
Rural King house brand is on sale often enough at 12.99 for the 2 gallon bottle.
Tractor Supply has 5 gallon pails for 34.99 of CK-4 15w40.

10w30 pails are out there, just not as popular as the 15w.

Do you need a 10w30? If you can run a 15w40, you'll save up front. Up to you to do the math and see if the minute MPG hit costs you in the long run.

I do realize at 45 quarts that's a lot of plastic bottles, but a couple of 5 gallon pails is 40 quarts.

Last edited by beanoil; 02/10/19 08:39 AM.

beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #5006833
02/10/19 12:56 PM
02/10/19 12:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 12,279
In the shop
53' Stude Offline
53' Stude  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 12,279
In the shop
BeanOil: HK 10W30 HDEO is now CK4 rated. No have about 20 gallons of the old CJ4 Stuff wink



Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: beanoil] #5006905
02/10/19 01:55 PM
02/10/19 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
SubaJew Offline OP
SubaJew  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
Originally Posted by beanoil
Originally Posted by SubaJew
The price of CK-4 has gone up a bit, reducing the cost spread between CK-4 & FA-4.

What?
CK-4 in most places has dropped, at least in my neck of the woods.
...
Do you need a 10w30? If you can run a 15w40, you'll save up front. Up to you to do the math and see if the minute MPG hit costs you in the long run.

My local cost for T5 went from $14 to $17/gal (incl tax) with the cheapest being @ Walmart.
Yes, I need xW-30. I have an FA-4 spec DD15 which ALLOWS CK-4. 15W40 is not recommended for use in my engine.
None of the oils you listed are on the DDC approved oil list for my engine under the 93K223, 93K222 or 93K218 spec.
http://ddc.tei-net.com/approvedlistprint-93k223.asp
http://ddc.tei-net.com/approvedlistprint-93k222.asp
http://ddc.tei-net.com/approvedlistprint-93k218.asp
Finally, the only oils I will consider are Rotella T5, Delo 400 ZFA or Delvac XFE, in that order.
I do chase MPGs and have found the difference between 15W-40 and 10W-30 to be cost effective.
The question I have yet to answer is how much more savings will FA-4 provide over CK-4 and whether it's cost effective.

Last edited by SubaJew; 02/10/19 02:12 PM.

2005 SUBARU Forester XT 4EAT - COBB Stage 1
Rotella T6 0W-40 CJ-4/SN - WIX 51365

2018 WESTERN STAR 5700 - Detroit DD15 - Eaton Fuller Super 13
Rotella T5 10W-30 CK-4 - Donaldson P551005
Re: Any experience with the new FA-4 oils? [Re: SubaJew] #5015596
02/18/19 05:48 PM
02/18/19 05:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL
SubaJew Offline OP
SubaJew  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11
Boca Raton, FL


2005 SUBARU Forester XT 4EAT - COBB Stage 1
Rotella T6 0W-40 CJ-4/SN - WIX 51365

2018 WESTERN STAR 5700 - Detroit DD15 - Eaton Fuller Super 13
Rotella T5 10W-30 CK-4 - Donaldson P551005
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